Tipping

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gaston said:
No why ? I've already paid for the pizza & the delivery cost. If we start bad habitats here we will soon be paying $25 to pass a rope . When traveling through Asia I give "very generous" tips and don't begrudge so but hate been put on the spot in America sometimes been told what the tip should be .
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In the US, we do tip food delivery people. Tips are very important to them.
 
Why should the owner pay his employees more when clients/patrons are willing to make generous tips? "Front-line" workers are often the highest compensated employees with the tips and wages as is. ... Patrons are ultimately responsible for the tipping problem!

Everything else being the same, I tip more for a five-course meal than a one-course meal because there is more personal service. In high-priced restaurants, I tip at a lower percentage because there is an absolute limit I will pay for each patron/guest.
 
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markpierce said:
Why should the owner pay his employees more when clients/patrons are willing to make generous tips? "Front-line" workers are often the highest compensated employees with the tips and wages as is. ... Patrons are ultimately responsible for the tipping problem!

Everything else being the same, I tip more for a five-course meal than a one-course meal because there is more personal service. In high-priced restaurants, I tip at a lower percentage because there is an absolute limit I will pay for each patron/guest.
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It all evens out. You pay for it one way or the other. Tipping for these services in the US is traditional and standard. I don't understand why one gets so upset about it. Like any other, it's just a system. Many ways to get to the same place. In the case of delivery, it's either tip or higher delivery charge. I don't care whether I pay $9 or pay $4 plus $5.
 
My favourite tipping story. Milton is an inner suburban business oriented location near the city. Park Road is the main street with an assortment of small businesses and many restaurants to cater for 'business lunches'. At one particular place the owners of adjoining restaurants liked to show off their cars by parking out front - Porsches, Ferrari's. Mine's better than yours.....

So, one day when I was about to figure out a tip the waitress said 'don't tip, we don't get any of it' Even cash? 'Yes' was the reply. So zero tip, I thanked her, told her to find a job elsewhere and she smiled and nodded. And I always went to the guy's competitors after that. But they might have been doing the same for all I know....
 
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78puget-trawler said:
Tipping someone to take a line on a dock??? Hmm, not thinking so. Maybe if I send him up town for parts then sure. If you are standing on a dock and a boat comes in for a landing and the skipper says, hey can you grab a line? Of course. Would you expect a tip for doing so? Not.
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I haven't yet read through all the posts but I agree completely. Is there a difference in regions? In all the years I have boated in the PNW, I have never tipped anyone (on the water). I never even think about it. I would no more tip someone at the fuel dock than I would tip the guy (in Oregon), that pumps the gas in my car.

The other issue is that it is extremely rare that there are "dock hands" that help with lines coming in or leaving. Maybe I just never visit posh enough marinas?

In thinking about it, there was only one time where I felt I had unusually helpful assistance was in Westview when Northern Spy's son helped us dock. I didn't tip then but now I am wondering if maybe I should have. If Mike is reading, maybe he can comment as to whether his son gets tips there.
 
I tip the college kids at Roche Harbor in the summer, not because they provide exceptional service, which they sometimes do, but because they are college kids trying to earn money.
 
Being an Aussie, I find tipping confusing but go along with it in the US.
Read a study that girls get tipped more when they are at their most fertile.
Got my female bar staff to keep a tally - they found it true!
So if you are an American waitress, there are certain days you must work!
Extrapolating from that - if you are a woman, trying to get a guy to do something , chose the day to maximize your chances of success.

Regards,
Richard.
 
markpierce said:
Why should the owner pay his employees more when clients/patrons are willing to make generous tips? "Front-line" workers are often the highest compensated employees with the tips and wages as is. ... Patrons are ultimately responsible for the tipping problem!

Everything else being the same, I tip more for a five-course meal than a one-course meal because there is more personal service. In high-priced restaurants, I tip at a lower percentage because there is an absolute limit I will pay for each patron/guest.
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I really find this bizarre - so what you are saying is that's its ok to employ staff and knowingly not pay them enough for the job they do for their employer because the responsibility for remuneration is taken over by the customer paying them direct.

You then blame the customer for this problem, with the owner the victim, being forced to reduce their wages so their staff wouldn`t be paid too much.

I need to reflect on this for a while.
 
Brisyboy said:
I really find this bizarre - so what you are saying is that's its ok to employ staff and knowingly not pay them enough for the job they do for their employer because the responsibility for remuneration is taken over by the customer paying them direct.

You then blame the customer for this problem, with the owner the victim, being forced to reduce their wages so their staff wouldn`t be paid too much.

I need to reflect on this for a while.
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Not at all hard to understand same thing happens in India ,Cambodia, Iran Somalia its called extortion
 
bogranjac1 said:
Aussies don't tip !!!
We employ people with a liveable wage.
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Please define livable wage. What does that mean Down Under? Does it mean that burger flippers make the same as a skilled auto mechanic or a truck driver or tugboat operator or house carpenter or does everyone make the same amount regardless their skill and experience level? Does it mean enough to buy smokes and beer and marijuana? Is it enough to have two cars, a cat, color TV, pay the rent, nice new cell phones, cable TV etc.? Because here in the states those are the things that most poor people actually have as defined by our illustrious fed govt per their wages. Of course poor means different things to different people but you get the idea. But still lets hear it. Define livable wage.
 
78puget-trawler said:
Please define livable wage. Of course poor means different things to different people but you get the idea. But still lets hear it. Define livable wage.
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I believe here in Oz, it is a small amount above the basic unemployment benefit, now called JobSearch. It is liveable in the sense any starting job would be, assumed to be to support a single person, living at home with patents, or in shared rental accommodation, and with no luxuries to speak of. Many apprenticeships start out a bit above this level, and move up yearly. Others may have more precise details, I didn't google it.
 
Peter B said:
I believe here in Oz, it is a small amount above the basic unemployment benefit, now called JobSearch. It is liveable in the sense any starting job would be, assumed to be to support a single person, living at home with patents, or in shared rental accommodation, and with no luxuries to speak of. Many apprenticeships start out a bit above this level, and move up yearly. Others may have more precise details, I didn't google it.
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So about what we do here I guess. Here each state will have its own minimum and then there is a federal minimum as well. Thanks!
 
BandB said:
It all evens out. You pay for it one way or the other. Tipping for these services in the US is traditional and standard. I don't understand why one gets so upset about it. Like any other, it's just a system. Many ways to get to the same place. In the case of delivery, it's either tip or higher delivery charge. I don't care whether I pay $9 or pay $4 plus $5.
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Yeah, looking at a restaurant's price list is like looking at my non-corrected instruments, like one needs to adjust for tax and tip and displayed versus actual.
 
Brisyboy said:
I really find this bizarre - so what you are saying is that's its ok to employ staff and knowingly not pay them enough for the job they do for their employer because the responsibility for remuneration is taken over by the customer paying them direct.

You then blame the customer for this problem, with the owner the victim, being forced to reduce their wages so their staff wouldn`t be paid too much.

I need to reflect on this for a while.
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George,I agree, that`s bizarre, there must be ironic humor we are missing.
In a way the system it makes the employee semi self employed, working for tips. They attract the best tips they can, keep what they get, if payment is direct.
In Seattle we had 20 or 25% just added to the bill once(do they pick Aussies?:)), normally it`s between server and diner.
It is cost shifting, from employer to diner, with lots of incentive for the server to do a good job.In that way it serves a function of promoting good service while the employer cheapskates, especially if you consider the avoided add on costs of employing staff at fair wages.
 
Once you get past there are 2 types of tipping in the US....it is not hard to understand.

Some businesses from a long time ago, evolved such that workers recieved tips.... it became the norm and now is an economic game of pay versus tips. When a waitress can earn more in tips than the manager and possibly the owner...it gets pretty interesting to see who should get paid what.

The other tipping might have grown from the other form and it just an act of gratitude. No more or less and there is no real custom for who gets them or how much as there are hardly norms because it is just so random. More like mini gifts....like here in the US in some areas giving Christmas gifts to regular delivery guys became tradition...mailmen, milkmen, UPS guys, etc...
 
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Brisyboy said:
I really find this bizarre - so what you are saying is that's its ok to employ staff and knowingly not pay them enough for the job they do for their employer because the responsibility for remuneration is taken over by the customer paying them direct.

You then blame the customer for this problem, with the owner the victim, being forced to reduce their wages so their staff wouldn`t be paid too much.

I need to reflect on this for a while.
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While my world travels are somewhat limited, it has been my experience that in general, service is better and servers are more friendly in countries with tipping. I like the concept of monetary motivation to perform above mediocrity.

Ted
 
IME, in countries where tipping is not part of the culture you get just a good (if not better) service as places where tipping is the norm. Customer service is also more civilized because that is just how it is done.

In countries where tipping is the norm, it is kind of a form of extortion. If you don't tip (or look like you aren't going to tip) your service may be subpar. In some cases the only advantage the patron has is that perhaps the service provider cannot judge the level of tip to be delivered and will err on the side of good service, just in case.

(It is similar to buying a car. If you show up at a dealership in ratty clothes, they will ignore you figuring you can't afford a car or only the cheapest one on the lot. If you dress decently, they won't leave you alone. Unfortunately, internet gazillionaires are ruining even that for the rest of us.)

There are plenty of stories about patrons being chased after by service providers in the US (or even fights breaking out) because the level of tip received did not meet the server's expectations, regardless of the patron's evaluation of the service received (as demonstrated by the tip). Patrons from places where tipping is not the norm (e.g Europe) are often the target of irate servers because they are not used to the US system.

Granted, in places where tips are not the norm, either the prices reflect the difference or there is a service charge added to the bill. Either way, the service staff receive a living wage.

Another problem is that there are certain jobs where tips are expected and other where they are not. It can be confusing to people inexperienced with the system to figure out. Doctors and other professionals don't get tips. A doctor may keep you from dying, but that's what you expect from him, and no tip is expected on the part of either party. A worker in a fast food restaurant that hands you your food over a counter does not get tips. One who carries your food to your table does. The janitor cleaning the toilets in a restaurant does not get tips, but someone who clears your table does. It really doesn't make sense.

In the US, there are legal exceptions to the minimum wage laws for service workers because they are "expected" to receive tips that will make up the difference. This is where the system is broken. Some restaurant owners are experimenting with "tipless" service or the "European" model. They pay a decent wage to the staff, the menu prices reflect that, and everybody (patrons and staff) knows what is going on and what the actual cost of a meal will be.

IMO, tips should be for service above and beyond the norm. If you are just doing the job they are hired you for, you should not automatically expect to receive a bonus for doing what you are actually expected to do anyway. In my job I don't get tips, nor is it expected (my wife thinks otherwise).

Further, as has been pointed out, sometimes the service worker does not actually get the tips you left for them. There is no law in the US that says the tips received belong to the employee who receives them. In some places, the server gets the tip. In others, the tips are pooled and delivered via some distribution system (where the recipient may get a fraction of what was given). There are even systems where all the tips go to the owners of the establishment and the servers get nothing.

I've heard from someone in the industry that the best method of delivering a tip if you use a credit card is to pay the printed bill with the CC and leave cash as the tip. If you put the tip on the CC, the service provider is at the mercy of the CC bill processor (usually the owner) to pay out the tips. They can decide (and it is perfectly legal, although they may have disgruntled employees) to keep all the tips for themselves. If you give cash, the server has plausible deniability and at least has some chance at control of who actually gets it.

Years ago I lived in Dallas, TX. There was a well known restaurant there. All the waiters drove Porsches and other expensive cars because they were so well tipped. They were making well into the 6 figures. A number of times more than I was making then as an engineer. The only reason I got to go to such a place was that my company was footing the bill.
 
We have always been generous tippers, having worked at most of the lower paying jobs at some point in our lives I relate to the working guy or gal. Our kids work some of these jobs so again we can relate.

One of our favorite sayings, my wife and I look at each other and say ...."let us be generous"
 
My wife was a teacher. One evening we were picking up a client for dinner in front of a 5 star New York hotel. The uniformed doorman stepped up to open our car door and surprisingly it was a former student of my wife. He had graduated high school about 3-years earlier.

Jackie was shocked to see such a bright student working as a doorman. She couldn't help asking him about it. He replied that it took an inside connection to get a job like his. He said that his income in cash tips alone was in excess of $200K and that he could probably retire by 40 years old if he chose to. There are people that would tip him $100 just to keep their expensive car in front of the hotel entrance while they had dinner. Man, that's out of my league. He added that he has developed relationships with some really powerful people in the business world who frequented the hotel.

Things are not always what they seem.
 
I know someone who works in fancy restaurants as a waiter in SFO. When people come in and have a wine bill of $4-5K, let alone a meal, you can imagine what a 20% tip amounts to. Yes, that doesn't happen everyday. But places that turn occasional tables in the multi $K range regularly turn tables in the multi $C range. Get a couple of those a night and the tips add up pretty fast. Add the fact that some people use creative accounting to track their tips, the taxes are not what you might expect. At the end of the day, in some places working for tips is not what it might seem.
 
At most of the fuel docks we use I rarely tip because I don't see any real service provided. There is usually no one there to catch your lines (you use a buzzer to call the attendant) and then they simply hand you the fuel hose. Same with pump-outs.

Unless the wind is screaming or there is a nasty current running I usually don't want a dock hand around to catch my lines anyway. Most of the time they grab your bow line and tie it off so short that you can't get the stern around. Most don't understand the concept of tying off a spring line. I've actually considered tipping dock hands to stay away from the boat although I will tip if I ask for help.

We also store a small outboard runabout at a storage area that provides tractor launch service. We've stored the boat there in the summer for a number of years and I do tip both of the tractor drivers at the end of the season.
 
78puget-trawler said:
One thing folks seem to forget about min wage jobs. These jobs and wages were not meant to be family supporting jobs. All starter jobs are just that, starter jobs with starter wages. We all had to start someplace. I worked min wage jobs just like most of us did, so what. Its meant to be an incentive to do better and progress in your life and NOT supposed to be a job supporting wage that one can continually whine about and march in the streets about. If you don't like your min wage job, quit and find a better one. Or go to school and get educated, or join the military and learn a trade there. There are all sorts of options besides just working for min wage and spending half your time trying to lobby for higher min wages. If a worker shows interest in the job and takes some initiative, usually an employer will take note and move that person up with a wage increase. If not, take a hike and find something better. In my view when tips are expected as part of ones wages, its a mistake. Tips should only be given for really good service because when tips are expected, where is the incentive to do a good job? When giving tips, if you question at all whether a tip has been earned, it probably wasn't and no tip should be given.
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Excellent post. I would add only one thing, "quit having ever more kids".
 
78puget-trawler said:
On our tax forms it states "list all wages, tips and benefits" or words to that effect. So yes supposed to list tips. How many actually do I have no idea. ............... .
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Yep and if you buy things over the Internet and don't pay state and local sales tax on them you are supposed to voluntarily pay the tax. :rolleyes:
 
When I drink too much I usually tip.....over
 
78puget-trawler said:
.............. Tips should only be given for really good service because when tips are expected, where is the incentive to do a good job? When giving tips, if you question at all whether a tip has been earned, it probably wasn't and no tip should be given.
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I once took a bunch of people to a restaurant for a birthday dinner. There was a note on the menu that a certain percentage tip would be added to the bill for large parties.

Thinking that they had done that, I paid the bill and left with my group.

As we were walking down the stairs, several of the staff came running down after me yelling "You didn't leave a tip!"

Needless to say, that was embarrassing. I gave them some cash without going back and examining the bill.

Needless to say, I never went back to that restaurant.

Not tipping in a restaurant (intentionally or otherwise) is likely to be an unpleasant experience.
 
We generally dock at the same marina four times a year, immediately before and after haulout, and twice during season to equalize batteries. Our tips (always) are consistent with what has been mentioned in this thread. Difference of course is that the base pay of the dockhands in the Eastern Caribbean is very little compared to the US so the tip is well appreciated. By the way the service we get is north of excellent.
 
It differs here in the Baltic's:
Denmark and Norway: tipping is quite unusual. A "mange tak!" (tanks!) is expected and if you appreciated an outstanding service you might round up.
While the Swedes and the Germans expect some 10 % ...
 
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