TIG welder onboard - pulled the trigger

[twistedtree]

For those that aren’t already experienced welders, a TIG machine isn’t where you want to start unless you are willing to spend a lot of time to learn and practice. I have a pretty complete metal shop (and wood) and recently sold my Miller TIG welder because I didn’t use it enough to get the weld quality that I want. I would rather pay for the occasional TIG job to be done professionally and perfectly rather than settle for the quality and appearance I can turn out with my rusty skills.

Simi has different situation since apparently the skilled work is hard to come by in his area. Sounds like he has the ability and experience so that won’t be an issue for him.

I'd say I'm a hobbyist welder at best, and there is no doubt that practice is very important. But I have also found that newer equipment can make any amateur attempts more successful. I did my first aluminum welding project ever, and a big one at that, using a new Miller setup with a good feed gun, and for probably 80% of the welds it actually looked like I knew what I was doing.

 

[twistedtree]

Adding more about TIG, here's a basic overview of the different welding processes.

In TIG, the torch electrode is tungsten, and doesn't get consumed in the weld. So the arc just makes the immediate area hot and molten. There is also a shielding gas (argon is typical) that flows from the torch so that the arc is in argon, not in oxygen. That keeps things from popping and burning. To what ever extend you need to add metal to the weld, it's done by dipping the end of a filler rod into the molten pool. So it's the filler rod that gets consumed.

With stick welding, the rod is both the electrode and the filler. As the rod end arcs, it also melts down into the pool. Stick welding rods are typically coated in a substance that creates a shield gas as it burns, but it's a less perfect shielding than pure gas, so spits and sparks a lot more.

Then there is MIG which is a bit of a hybrid between stick and TIG. With MIG, wire is automatically fed through the center of the torch, and like stick the wire is both the electrode and the filler. So wire is consumed as you go. The welder gets loaded with a spool and is automatically fed as you weld. There also is shielding gas like with TIG, so you get a more controlled burn vs stick.

 

[rslifkin]

I'd say I'm a hobbyist welder at best, and there is no doubt that practice is very important. But I have also found that newer equipment can make any amateur attempts more successful. I did my first aluminum welding project ever, and a big one at that, using a new Miller setup with a good feed gun, and for probably 80% of the welds it actually looked like I knew what I was doing.

Mig with good equipment is definitely easy to do at least decent work with provided you understand the basics. But from conversations with friends that have far more welding skill than I've got, TIG is a lot harder to pick up and requires more skill. A few of them have jokingly referred to MIG as a metal glue gun.

 

[twistedtree]

Mig with good equipment is definitely easy to do at least decent work with provided you understand the basics. But from conversations with friends that have far more welding skill than I've got, TIG is a lot harder to pick up and requires more skill. A few of them have jokingly referred to MIG as a metal glue gun.

That is indeed the beauty of MIG. Point and blast. Even I can do it

 

[ghost]

The first thing I ever welded was stainless with mig. I didn’t know better. But I was determined, was stubborn and persistent and in the end produced a small radar mast out of shiny tube that lasted until I sold the boat.

Ive been practicing with TIG as a hobby and while I’m not really any good, thinking of a invertig 221 for Christmas. I watch This Old Tony and the fabricator series for entertainment.

I’d love to think I could get good enough to weld some stainless exhaust risers, but realistically I’d still just fork over the cash for something important like that. Really I just like to make things, so it’s not really practical, just for fun.

 

[TheAtomicDog]

I watch This Old Tony and the fabricator series for entertainment.

+1 for This Old Tony. Hope he gets back to regular vids. Tough break.

 

[bkcorwin]

The benefit of the tig welder is its flexibility. If you carry a small selection of filler rods you can weld most any normal stuff you would encounter on a boat. Accomplishing the same with a mig welder requires much more gear. My inverter tig is very light and small compared to carrying my mig with regular gun and push pull gun.

I am shopping boats now (nordhavn 60/63) but fully intend to throw my older ac/dc inverter tig machine in it when we go (older ahp alphatig). It runs on 110 or 240 and both 50 and 60 hz. Is it as nice as my dyansty, certainly not. But does it weld just fine and can it get you out of a jam? absolutely.

Other people have commented on not wanting to learn tig first. I hear that from a lot of people but i generally think learning tig first can help a lot in understanding what you are seeing when welding with other processes. That said, it does have an appreciable learning curve.

 

[kthoennes]

...I've been practicing with TIG as a hobby and while I’m not really any good, thinking of a invertig 221 for Christmas. I watch This Old Tony and the fabricator series for entertainment...

Thanks so much for that reference. I did a search on YouTube and after watching some of his videos, I think I might take a shot at welding a break in my aluminum pipe bow rail (MIG). Won't be cheap by the time I'm done buying the machine and bottles and practice scrap material and everything else, but I figure it's a useful skill and ability and I haven't been able to find a single welder who's willing to drive 90 minutes to Yankton, even if I pay him an absurd amount of money. Always fun to buy more workshop toys anyway.

 

[Simi 60]

It is a shame ally requires so much more grunt therefore $$ than S/S to weld

Half decent Tig or mig for S/S is a few hundred dollars

 

[Bmarler]

It is a shame ally requires so much more grunt therefore $$ than S/S to weld

Half decent Tig or mig for S/S is a few hundred dollars

you got that right. if you're going to weld aluminum the choice of compact welders gets pretty small. i've got an older thermal arc 185 that does a great job on thin stuff, but won't touch anything big.
plus, most of the small tig machines are dc only.
you've got to have three hundred amps to do anything sizable in aluminum. that doesn't easily fit on my boat.
tig was easy for me to learn. it feels a lot like gas welding. torch in one hand, filler in the other. i did a lot of gas welding in my youth.

 

[guy with a boat]

Thanks so much for that reference. I did a search on YouTube and after watching some of his videos, I think I might take a shot at welding a break in my aluminum pipe bow rail (MIG). Won't be cheap by the time I'm done buying the machine and bottles and practice scrap material and everything else, but I figure it's a useful skill and ability and I haven't been able to find a single welder who's willing to drive 90 minutes to Yankton, even if I pay him an absurd amount of money. Always fun to buy more workshop toys anyway.

Just know that welding aluminum is a step beyond welding steel with a TIG. A cheap TIG machine and beginner skills won’t get a good result. There is a risk that you end up with a pile of expensive equipment and still looking for a welder to fix the bow rail.

 

[bkcorwin]

Just know that welding aluminum is a step beyond welding steel with a TIG. A cheap TIG machine and beginner skills won’t get a good result. There is a risk that you end up with a pile of expensive equipment and still looking for a welder to fix the bow rail.

Its very possible to end up like "guy with a boat" says. Its also quite possible to succeed just fine. I've welded a lot of aluminum with an ahp alphatig before i got my dynasty. It works. However, beginner skills is definitely a problem, but it is not rocket science. I am self taught and it can be done! Only tip is that aluminum tig is very sensitive to torch angle.

I'll edit to add, small diameter round tubing probably isnt the easiest place to start.

 

[Steve1.0]

Other people have commented on not wanting to learn tig first. I hear that from a lot of people but i generally think learning tig first can help a lot in understanding what you are seeing when welding with other processes. That said, it does have an appreciable learning curve.

Learnig to weld with oxy/acetelene gas first gives a good understanding of heat and puddle control and is similar in execution to TIG. You just can't do aluminum or stainless.

I built and sold many pairs of dinghy davits thru sailorman in

Ft. Lauderdale

 

[DDW]

It is easy to make a weld with TIG, a lot harder to make a good one, especially on SS. I have gas, TIG, and MIG rigs. TIG takes a little practice but produces a better weld with less mess. Almost nobody in the yacht SS business uses a MIG, as it is by nature and additive process resulting in big fillets to go along with the spatter. That is esthetically unacceptable on (many) yachts.

TIG is pretty easy to weld steel, with a good inverter rig not that hard on aluminum. Also easy on SS, but much harder to get a good weld because SS is adversely affected in the weld zone. Inverter TIG rigs are physically small, especially with an air cooled torch (which limits you to thinnish aluminum). With TIG you can weld anything: copper, bronze, cast iron, etc. If I was carrying a welding rig on board, without a doubt it would be TIG. Unless it was a metal boat, then it would probably be MIG or a multiprocess inverter rig.

 

[gc9773]

I have a small wire feed i take with me for long trips. Small bottles i own for stainless and aluminum. But im a cheap ass, dont wanna pay the rates for hired work, especially when something just broke

This is the way I would go, or possibly a small inverter stick unit. I can't imagine trying to TIG something together on a boat, sounds like a huge PITA. You can use flux core or a small 40 cf bottle of C25 or tri-mix (for stainless) for emergency repairs and if necessary, farm it out when you get to port.

I've had 3 Hobart Handler 140's which worked incredibly well on 120. Most of the 120 inverter stick machines have a heck of a time on 120 that I've seen. Put them on 240 and they shine.

Finally bit off and purchased a Hobart Ironman 240 with a 200 ampere spool gun for aluminum....

 

[gc9773]

Five on the gas flow huh what kind of tungsten do you use what size cup .What gas do you use I heard somebody say you need a different gas for different metals help a poor illiterate guy out here . I’d sure appreciate it.Years in the business ,stainless for a super yachts . Welders love taking pictures of work they’re proud of ,I’m sure you’re bound to have one or two showing some work you’ve done big grin on your face holding your tig torch a picture or two maybe the kind of welding helmet you use help a poor dumb guy like me more details please .You know Thumb Control or pedal anything you can tell me would sure be of help

Ceriated electrodes work fine, but thoriated are supposed to offer superior performance, so I use those right now. You would typically use Argon for TIG'ing steel, not sure on stainless (maybe the same, I've never worked with it). If you are going to be welding aluminum, you will need an AC unit. We use 20 CFH on Argon. I'm not a big fan of TIG, maybe one day...

 

[Brooksie]

Don;t weld onboard w/o removing your compasses. AP compass too.

 

[Simi 60]

Don;t weld onboard w/o removing your compasses. AP compass too.

Based on???

I can see that it may affect it if on a steel boat welding near the compass but our compass is top deck fwd and welding will be in lower deck aft or down again in the ER

 

[Simi 60]

This is the way I would go, or possibly a small inverter stick unit. .

Many small under $250 machines these days are inverter stick/tig

I can't imagine trying to TIG something together on a boat, sounds like a huge PITA.
You can use flux core or a small 40 cf bottle of C25 or tri-mix (for stainless) for emergency repairs and if necessary, farm it out when you get to port.

Sounds like?

Going into a port and then trying to farm it out to someone IS a huge PITA for us.
I have jobs here I have been trying to get done for 5 years and frankly, I am over it

Its why I am setting up a tig

 

[gc9773]

Based on???

I can see that it may affect it if on a steel boat welding near the compass but our compass is top deck fwd and welding will be in lower deck aft or down again in the ER

This is actually sound advice, depending on how close you are (ye olde inverse square law)... I have a friend who is an AWESOME TIG welder, did production/fab with aluminum, and he learned real quick to not keep his wallet with his credit cards on his person while TIG welding (unless aluminum) with AC. Whenever I press the foot control, my welding helmet goes into shade mode...

That same friend goes through cell phones like you would NOT BELIEVE... I take my watch off as an extra precaution whenever I am TIG'ing as well... I have personally observed it wiping out computer monitors during operation!

 

[gc9773]

Ceriated electrodes work fine, but thoriated are supposed to offer superior performance, so I use those right now. You would typically use Argon for TIG'ing steel, not sure on stainless (maybe the same, I've never worked with it). If you are going to be welding aluminum, you will need an AC unit. We use 20 CFH on Argon. I'm not a big fan of TIG, maybe one day...

Almost forgot, cup size... If you are doing filet welds, a 5 is probably best. On butt welds, I use a 7. Just size your cup to the "tightness" of the weld...

Even better, get a MIG and be done with it...

 

[DDW]

This is actually sound advice, depending on how close you are (ye olde inverse square law)... I have a friend who is an AWESOME TIG welder, did production/fab with aluminum, and he learned real quick to not keep his wallet with his credit cards on his person while TIG welding (unless aluminum) with AC. Whenever I press the foot control, my welding helmet goes into shade mode...

That same friend goes through cell phones like you would NOT BELIEVE... I take my watch off as an extra precaution whenever I am TIG'ing as well... I have personally observed it wiping out computer monitors during operation!

The old spark gap high frequency created some really strong and uncontrolled e-fields. Much less true with modern inverter machines. With my old rig if the HF was on I could walk all the way across the shop, hold a screwdriver close to a grinder lets say, and draw an arc about 1/2" long. Nothing like that on the newer inverter rig.

For SS, if you have the space use a #12 or even larger gas lens cup. There will be a noticeable improvement in weld quality.

 

[gc9773]

The old spark gap high frequency created some really strong and uncontrolled e-fields. Much less true with modern inverter machines. With my old rig if the HF was on I could walk all the way across the shop, hold a screwdriver close to a grinder lets say, and draw an arc about 1/2" long. Nothing like that on the newer inverter rig.

For SS, if you have the space use a #12 or even larger gas lens cup. There will be a noticeable improvement in weld quality.

I have not used one of the new inverter TIG machines, but TIG is TEDIOUS process, makes pretty AND strong welds, but just seems like an awful lot for typical use. I would rather have a reasonably good stick machine than any TIG aboard a vessel. Furthermore, TIG requires a serious technique... For the record, I am a GREAT gas welder (oxy/acetylene) but am HORRIBLE with TIG, which is counterintuitive.

I could show anyone how to lay a reasonable weld with MIG, but TIG requires TIME and PRACTICE (and not a rocking vessel), and even then is not something I would rely on in an emergency at sea. For that, I would probably go with stick...

 

[Mako]

How do you passionate or treat after welding?

 

[gc9773]

It is easy to make a weld with TIG, a lot harder to make a good one, especially on SS. I have gas, TIG, and MIG rigs. TIG takes a little practice but produces a better weld with less mess. Almost nobody in the yacht SS business uses a MIG, as it is by nature and additive process resulting in big fillets to go along with the spatter. That is esthetically unacceptable on (many) yachts.

TIG is pretty easy to weld steel, with a good inverter rig not that hard on aluminum. Also easy on SS, but much harder to get a good weld because SS is adversely affected in the weld zone. Inverter TIG rigs are physically small, especially with an air cooled torch (which limits you to thinnish aluminum). With TIG you can weld anything: copper, bronze, cast iron, etc. If I was carrying a welding rig on board, without a doubt it would be TIG. Unless it was a metal boat, then it would probably be MIG or a multiprocess inverter rig.

TIG is not EASY to weld steel. TIG requires significant practice, "a little practice"??? And TIG units are either air cooled or water cooled. Water cooling adds complexity and cost, air cooling reduces duty cycle and/or amperage...

MIG is a HEAVY DEPOSITION process, or can be, but with argon/CO2 (or even CO2) can produce aesthetically pleasing welds with great penetration... Argon/CO2 reduces splatter to nil... I can weld with 6010 electrode with almost ZERO splatter...

For MOST folks here, TIG will be a futile effort... Unless you expect to see your boat on "The Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous", and have the money to pay someone who knows what they are doing, TIG is the worst process to have onboard...

"Not that hard on aluminum", you've gotta be kidding me...

"If I was carrying a welding rig on board, without a doubt it would be TIG", I want 2 of whatever you took...

For those here considering their options, try TIG, I suspect you will decide practicality over aesthetics...

 

[gc9773]

The old spark gap high frequency created some really strong and uncontrolled e-fields. Much less true with modern inverter machines. With my old rig if the HF was on I could walk all the way across the shop, hold a screwdriver close to a grinder lets say, and draw an arc about 1/2" long. Nothing like that on the newer inverter rig.

For SS, if you have the space use a #12 or even larger gas lens cup. There will be a noticeable improvement in weld quality.

Oh, and don't forget your electrode sharpener... Yeah, I'll pass on TIG aboard a yacht...

 

[Simi 60]

TIG is not EASY to weld steel. TIG requires significant practice, "a little practice"???

"Not that hard on aluminum", you've gotta be kidding me...
.

Mig and Tig in ally and s/s is easy.......if that's what you have learnt to do

At college during my apprenticeship, I had trouble getting a pass in arc welding as the only time I ever did it was the small amount of time before testing.

Mig and Tig was piss easy as that was all I did - conversely, most everyone else had trouble

Oh, and don't forget your electrode sharpener... Yeah, I'll pass on TIG aboard a yacht...

That'd be the same bench grinder I have onboard and use for knife sharpening (-;

 

[gc9773]

Mig and Tig in ally and s/s is easy.......if that's what you have learnt to do

At college during my apprenticeship, I had trouble getting a pass in arc welding as the only time I ever did it was the small amount of time before testing.

Mig and Tig was piss easy as that was all I did - conversely, most everyone else had trouble

Easy for you, how will the others here fare? MIG is a fairly easy process to learn... I'm not here to argue, but TIG is something else entirely, and this is from experience...

Suggesting to folks here that TIG is "EASY" is false advertising, at best...

 

[gc9773]

Mig and Tig in ally and s/s is easy.......if that's what you have learnt to do

At college during my apprenticeship, I had trouble getting a pass in arc welding as the only time I ever did it was the small amount of time before testing.

Mig and Tig was piss easy as that was all I did - conversely, most everyone else had trouble



That'd be the same bench grinder I have onboard and use for knife sharpening (-;

And MIG and TIG are totally DIFFERENT processes, requiring completely DIFFERENT techniques, this is from someone who KNOWS...

 

[gc9773]

Mig and Tig in ally and s/s is easy.......if that's what you have learnt to do

At college during my apprenticeship, I had trouble getting a pass in arc welding as the only time I ever did it was the small amount of time before testing.

Mig and Tig was piss easy as that was all I did - conversely, most everyone else had trouble



That'd be the same bench grinder I have onboard and use for knife sharpening (-;

And everyone else here will have trouble, if they follow your "advice"....

And using a bench grinder to sharpen your electrode does not necessarily facilitate ease of TIG welding. We have a $2,000 diamond tipped machine to do that, and it is still something I do not look forward to...

Me thinks someone here is selling swill...

If you had trouble with arc welding, I question your TIG abilities...