Thoughts on widebody boats

[eyschulman]

The balance between deck space and interior space comes back around to the boat cottage ratio issue. Many see and use their boats as a cottage on the water and wide decks take away from interior space. Others who want or need access to the entire boat including the side decks will go more toward the boat side of the ratio and trade interior space for the access. There is no ultimate right or wrong just preference. If a sizable boat is short of crew or uses locks often the side decks low free-board of the boat side of the equation comes to the fore. On the other hand if a boat spends a lot of time on the hook or at a dock and living aboard comfort is most important access becomes less important. My personal situation is single handing a 50+ ft LOA vessel including locking so full access and low free board were purposely designed into the build of my boat as were many other design aspects meant to meet the specific use patterns. Most boat owners do not have the luxury of designing for use and have to pick from what is available fortunately the is a wide range of choice.

 

[markpierce]

It's convenient to have deck close to dock level. Just step aboard. No stairs or ladder required!

 

[MYTraveler]

I think it depends on the size of the boat. At the size of my boat (68 LOA x 18'11" beam), there is plenty of beam to accommodate a large salon and wide side decks. Since the boat is semi-custom, we could have omitted one or both of the side decks, but did not give that serious consideration. More significantly, no other owner has either.

 

[Nomad Willy]

For "real" trawlers like Nordhavn, KK and Selene asymmetrical is common and becoming universal.

They aren't any more or less trawlers.
Just expensive w snobish owners.

However the one side wide and one w the outside deck is good because so many are paranoid about landing a boat when they need to walk through the cabin to get to the other end if the boat. Nonsense. All one needs to do is get one line attached to the float or dock. We arange the lines (mostly and carefully on the life line) so they can easily be reached from the float .. at least as far as amidship. We usually make fast a temporary midships line while we tie up the bow and stern lines. Then remove the tempoary midships line and install fore and aft springs, short or long depending on cleats or bull rails. Access is only necessary from the stern. The bow line may be used but it is much easier to arrange the midship temp line on the rails far enough aft to easily grab it w the stern up to the float. The bow can be well out but can easily be pulled in w the temp line amidships. Or if the wind is pushing the boat out and it's a big boat one needs only to learn how to throw the bow line.

So if applying a bit of seamanship no side deck on the landing side is necessary. So this bit of skill is a small price to pay for all that space the wide bodied boat has. No contest IMO. I should have held out for a wide bodied Willard but I didn't know there would be so many Willards available.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. NW. Snobbish? Not those I've met. You need to get out more.

 

[theTopsail]

It's convenient to have deck close to dock level. Just step aboard. No stairs or ladder required!

Quite the interesting get home rig you got there!

 

[theTopsail]

I think it depends on the size of the boat. At the size of my boat (68 LOA x 18'11" beam), there is plenty of beam to accommodate a large salon and wide side decks. Since the boat is semi-custom, we could have omitted one or both of the side decks, but did not give that serious consideration. More significantly, no other owner has either.

Since your boat is relative large at 68ft LOA, I would not have even thought twice about having any layout other than wide side decks. You have enough space to get lots of space in a saloon as well as enough for good sized decks. On a boat that large, I would definitely want good mooring gear midships so side decks that are accessible are a must.

 

[theTopsail]

The balance between deck space and interior space comes back around to the boat cottage ratio issue. Many see and use their boats as a cottage on the water and wide decks take away from interior space. Others who want or need access to the entire boat including the side decks will go more toward the boat side of the ratio and trade interior space for the access. There is no ultimate right or wrong just preference. If a sizable boat is short of crew or uses locks often the side decks low free-board of the boat side of the equation comes to the fore. On the other hand if a boat spends a lot of time on the hook or at a dock and living aboard comfort is most important access becomes less important. My personal situation is single handing a 50+ ft LOA vessel including locking so full access and low free board were purposely designed into the build of my boat as were many other design aspects meant to meet the specific use patterns. Most boat owners do not have the luxury of designing for use and have to pick from what is available fortunately the is a wide range of choice.

Well... I thought I had learnt all the ratios regarding yacht design this year but the boat to cottage ratio is a new one . I do agree there is a preference between the ratio of space outside vs space inside. I just think side decks still are something which have more benefits than an additional little bit of a saloon... maybe enough for another bookshelf or pop-up flat-screen on a 45ft boat!

 

[AusCan]

With a 30 foot boat, side decks are a costly option in regard to cabin (saloon) space. My hull is fairly narrow as well so side decks would have really limited the internal layout.

In this case the builder went with a narrow (12") unprotected walkway, and good hand rails along the cabin roof. It works very well, although does not give the same feeling of security as an enclosed walkway. Either way, when the seas are rough enough, a harness and tether are required for safety when going to the fore deck.

 

[theTopsail]

With a 30 foot boat, side decks are a costly option in regard to cabin (saloon) space. My boat is fairly narrow as well so side decks would have really limited the internal layout.

In this case the builder went with a narrow (12") unprotected walkway, and good hand rails along the cabin roof. It works very well, although does not give the same feeling of security as an enclosed walkway. Either way, when the seas are rough enough, a harness and tether are required for safety when going to the fore deck.

That is quite an interesting boat. Did the builder not have optional rails for the side decks (even though they could have ruined the shearline of the boat)? I agree with the harness and tether - I think there are too few people who regularly use proper safety techniques!

 

[MurrayM]

The Transpacific Eagle 40 went with a wider beam relative to its length (14.5') and kept the walk around decks.

 

[BandB]

That is quite an interesting boat. Did the builder not have optional rails for the side decks (even though they could have ruined the shearline of the boat)? I agree with the harness and tether - I think there are too few people who regularly use proper safety techniques!

Wifey B: We went through a rail deal with a builder. Always had used the same rails on the model we were getting and we wanted the taller rails they used on a larger boat. Oh my....that will ruin the lines....it won't look right....be too tall. So we have them cad it and it looks fine and now the guy still is concerned although looks perfect from outside, so then to to a boat and hold some up and fine. Then install a few feet of it. Perfecto. It was just 6" difference but it felt better.

 

[AusCan]

That is quite an interesting boat. Did the builder not have optional rails for the side decks (even though they could have ruined the shearline of the boat)? I agree with the harness and tether - I think there are too few people who regularly use proper safety techniques!

There were many different variations of this boat but none gave up the interior space for side decks. Some had a ladder and large hatch in the vee berth as an alternative way of going to the foredeck.

This version below was on of the more common styles. They were often used as charter boats and to get approval for this in Australia they required high bow rails, but no side rails.

 

[BandB]

There were many different variations of this boat but none gave up the interior space for side decks. Some had a ladder and large hatch in the vee berth as an alternative way of going to the foredeck.

This version below was on of the more common styles. They were often used as charter boats and to get approval for this in Australia they required high bow rails, but no side rails.

Wifey B: So, they don't want you to fall off the bow, but if you fall off the side that's fine?

 

[AusCan]

Wifey B: So, they don't want you to fall off the bow, but if you fall off the side that's fine?

I've never come close to falling of the side deck, because I always have a hand hold; I don't think the risk of MOB is as high as it is up forward.

I have come very close to sliding under the bow rail life lines in rough seas when pulling up the anchor. Problems occur when you are attempting to do things other than just holding on and walking.

Actually - we have had one overboard off the side decks. Dixie - our dog. She is normally very agile, and often goes onto the foredeck even though she can't reach the hand rail. We just bought her a new lifejacket which was slightly bulkier than her old one shown below. When moving from the cockpit to the side deck, the bigger edge of the lifejacket caught the corner of the cabin, and bumped her off. It was a very good MOB (or DOB) training exercise.

 

[markpierce]

... Either way, when the seas are rough enough, a harness and tether are required for safety when going to the fore deck.

Not my "cup of tea."

 

[markpierce]

There were many different variations of this boat but none gave up the interior space for side decks. Some had a ladder and large hatch in the vee berth as an alternative way of going to the foredeck.
...

Crawl/climb through a hole to get to the foredeck? Not a desirable option for this old coot.

 

[markpierce]

... Dixie - our dog. She is normally very agile, and often goes onto the foredeck even though she can't reach the hand rail. We just bought her a new lifejacket which was slightly bulkier than her old one shown below. When moving from the cockpit to the side deck, the bigger edge of the lifejacket caught the corner of the cabin, and bumped her off. It was a very good MOB (or DOB) training exercise.

Gunwales might have helped.

 

[Pack Mule]

I like cool looking boats and cool looking homes but I like to keep them separate.

 

[twistedtree]

We have a wide body, and it is only a minor inconvenience. We just make an effort to dock on our stbd side where the walkway is. But port side is still accessible - just at a different level. From the cockpit you can still walk the port perimeter all the way forward, but most of it is from the boatdeck/pilot house level. From the cockpit, you just go up the stairs to the boa deck, and continue forward along the outside edge of the boat. It's a straight shot to the bow. Also note that on the stbd side here is a set of stairs to the bow as well - hey are just forward of the saloon rather han aft. We just hang fenders down from the upper rails, and run lines from different locations. And we have run through many locks both port and stbd side tied. The only real inconvenience is that there is no boarding gate on the port side at dock level, so you need to board using the swim platform. Again, no big deal.

I think it's worth it for the extra space in the salon (OK, RT, Saloon). But if the whole port side were not accessible, which I think might be the case with some designs, I'm sure I would feel differently.

 

[markpierce]

No one has yet complained of our saloon's width, surrounded by 18-inch decks. Perhaps they were just being polite!





The boat's freshwater tanks are located under the decks, behind the settee backs.

 

[BandB]

We just make an effort to dock on our stbd side where the walkway is.

We dock the vast majority of the time on our starboard side. Just habit. Doesn't matter what boat. Most of the time we lock on that side as well. I think it's all keeping to the right or something as a habit. So, a question for others. When you side tie, which side do you normally tie?

 

[markpierce]

I usually dock to starboard. The helm is starboard, and it's only one step to be on deck and another to grab the midship spring line, and two more steps to board the dock.

 

[AusCan]

Not my "cup of tea."

When the conditions call for it, harnesses and tethers are required to keep you alive, regardless if it is your "cup of tea" or not. This is what happens outside of protected water.

 

[markpierce]

When the conditions call for it, harnesses and tethers are required to keep you alive, regardless if it is your "cup of tea" or not. This is what happens outside of protected water.

Especially when one has minimal, deficient, or absent decks and railings!

 

[Nomad Willy]

AusCan,
These two pics show the main salon size/space and the side deck space wasted.

Same sized boat as yours. Ours 10'6" boat width. Relative to this post perhaps the original design was considerably narrower.

 

[Woodland Hills]

One thing not mentioned is that if you have a wide body saloon, you had better have a pilot house door to the foredeck. If not, you are going to have to let the deckhand handle both fore and aft lines while you are stuck up on the fly bridge driving the boat. This makes it a lot harder to singlehand as well.

 

[Lou_tribal]

we have a 30 feet boat with side deck. Of course it is narrow, around 1 feet wide, but it is enough to get around and practical when going through locks without impacting inside space. I would never stop to be amazed about how much space we have for a 30 feet boat, for two of us it is just perfect. I got some apartments that were not bigger than my boat!

L.

 

[BruceK]

Walk around decks or interior width? It`s a trade-off.
Imo walkaround decks are preferable to the clingaround decks, especially if the docking gets exciting. No doubt there is a range of variations between the 2 extremes.

 

[AusCan]

Eric,
Yes - it's tough to fit it all into a 30 foot boat and still have an efficient, seaworthy hull shape. My hull is slightly narrower than yours, so there is no way to have an enclosed deck space and a 'C' shaped seating area in the cabin. It would have been just a bench seat on one side and sink/stove/counter on the other side.

Mark,
Many people consider flush decks to be more seaworthy, as they shed water so much better, but I agree that an enclosed foredeck does give one a more secure feeling.
When a big wave washes over, either way you'll need to be tied off to stay aboard. I don't plan on getting myself in that position but I like to be prepared.

Woody,
It all depends on your docking style. I never access the foredeck when docking. Its much easier to use a midship spring line which runs to the cockpit. I don't leave the cockpit until the boat is hard up against the dock,then tie off the bow from the dock. Its much easier than scampering around the boat.