Thoughts on chartering?

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Gilhooley

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2014
Messages
66
Location
Greenland
Greetings,

I was contacted through my website today by someone with a business proposition that involves my boat... to charter Clock Work, my Nordic Tug 42.. in the north in the summer and the south in the winter, and to make the transit each way some kind of "adventure" thing. This is actually the second time I've fielded such an idea... a friend of mine with a captain's license also suggested something similar a few years ago also using Clock Work. My reply then was that that's a complication to my life I can't afford and in any case, I don't like the idea of going in to business with a friend.

To the present.. while I have some awareness there are guys out there on the lookout for good deals, a couple of recent contacts that have come in though my web portal feel a whole bunch like that Robert Allen/Nothing Down wannabe deal-maker craze from the 80's... flipper mentality (pass). So perhaps the caliber of the leads for a straight sale is shifting and my mindset should shift with it. Perhaps.

As to this proposal, I'll say the initial idea is not immediately compelling on the surface.. it's nothing like any of my last 40 years business experience, but I'd like to rule out at least it's not one of those opportunities I should examine more closely before I move on. There's a tiny number of details that were discussed this afternoon and a huge number (insurance, commercial vs recreational, maintenance standards, safety, passenger selection, etc) that still need to be which is one more time sink I don't need. But I'm curious if anyone here has ever undertaken something like this. I suppose chartering is the right word though I really thought that was a sailboats-only thing.

The guy with the idea states he's got a 100T license. He'd conduct the charters and oversee maintenance (to my standards)... a third of the fee would go to expenses, a third to me and a third to him. I'm not deeply in love with the idea of someone else running/maintaining my boat. Service providers cutting corners are why I do 100% of all maintenance myself and a healthy slice of diagnosis and repairs on everything I own. It'd have to be worth it, of course, and I do believe a well-maintained/optioned low-hours fully mechanical engine that's not getting any older will always have a market. They aren't making any new ones.

If anyone has any experience with anything like this idea that they'd be willing to share, please do let me know. Observation... writing this down did not do my enthusiasm for the idea any favors... asymmetric skin in the game. Thanks in advance.

--

Miguel
clockwork-usa.com
 
There are or were places you would buy a boat and ne part of a charter group. You had rights to use the boat a number of days. So maybe that.
But not feeling this proposal.
 
The Captain who trained us is in business with a guy that bought a 78 foot yacht for that purpose. Runs Company "bonding sessions" out of Marina Del Rey. Yeah, flush with dough So.Cal people.

If you trust the Captain...

You can make some dough.
 
There are quite a few Airbnb's that are boats, even some tents, here in South Florida and probably elsewhere. Might be an "in between" way to make a few bucks. Accommodations only, boat stays at thee dock. Of course you have to have a suitable dock arrangement.

:socool:
 
You would be going into business with two people who do not share your concern or financial interest in your boat - the captain, and the customer. Not only is there maintenance, but wear/tear and depreciation. What happens if the generator dies? Or a raw water impeller crunches and the engine overheats and blows the head gasket? The AC unit stops working even though its almost new? Is that maintenance? Normal wear/tear? Scuffs from docking - does it get a quick buff and paint so it passes the 10-foot test, or does it get a professional repair at $5k? What happens when stuff gets lost - you are 90% sure it was there, but can't prove it? You are pledging a $400k asset, what is your protection against a disagreement with the 100T guy, especially since he will have physical control of the boat? Your interests are not wholly aligned.

If you're interested in chartering your N42, find a reputable charter operation with proven maintenance program. Its a highkt desireable boat for charter and you should expect a warm reception.

A 100T license gives zero indication of experience and capability, just that someone says they spent 720 days on a vessel in some capacity (assuming their sea time is legit). And certainly says nothing about their integrity or marketing prowess.

While not a charter business, I effectively went into a boat related business with a marine company to restore my Willard 36. All was fine for a while. In the end, they admitted they owed me money, admitted the work they did was garbage. But they were unable and/or unwilling to make it right and were seemingly fine with my building a website describing what a bunch of hacks they are. Took me a while to unwind from them because they had control of the boat. Really bad feeling on my part. Www.NizaMarine.net.

Lots of downside risk. Not much upside for you.

Good luck.

Peter
 
This!

A 100T license gives zero indication of experience and capability, just that someone says they spent 720 days on a vessel in some capacity (assuming their sea time is legit). And certainly says nothing about their integrity or marketing prowess.
Peter

:socool:
 
You have spent your time and money on the boat and now your friend wants you to toss him the keys?
I doubt if anyone will care for you boat as well as you do.
There will be disputes, who has the final say?
The captain is to be on board when the boat is away from the dock?
Who cooks and cleans?
Who does the maintenance?
Does your insurance agree with you plans.
His health insurance must remain in effect.
His umbrella policy must remain in effect.
He must notify you if there is any change in his insurance coverage.

Take the engine keys with you unless you would trust him with the boat 'and your sister.'

and the above is just a start.

Then if the renters do or have drugs or on board and get caught, kiss your boat good bye.

I agree with others, too many down sides. You have a lot of love, time and money it that boat.
Thank him for the opportunity but, 'i would rather not.'
 
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We’ve seen an Airbnb offer for a trawler in Carolina.
Wonder if anyone has experience with short term rentals?
 
I can think of four guys in my life whom I'd trust with my boat without a second thought. Dave, a fellow slip-holder at the marina who is the best boat mechanic I've ever met; my friend Mike in Palmer, AK, who was in the mechanical engineering program with me in college (I switched majors, he stayed in); my father, although he runs boats and engines really hard, harder and faster than I do; and AlaskaProf on this forum, who was in grad school with me and ran his own trawler back and forth to Alaska until the recent sale.

Dan's questions are good ones.
 
Not on my boat!!! No way would I turn it over to some unknown person. Not that there is anything wrong with him but you just don’t know. He wants to save 1/3rd for boat maintenance. What happens when you eat an engine? Does he come up with half the tens of thousands of dollars that it will cost, or does he walk away? He has no investment in your boat.
 
I don't think I've ever witnessed a thread with virtually 100% consensus on this forum before.

Too much risk, too little potential reward, way too many potential bad outcomes. Captains licenses do not guarantee competence and even if a failure is no ones fault, you will regret the decision if major damage occurs. Buying a boat specifically dedicated to charter service, managed by an established company, running a fleet of similar boats would be a better option.
 
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Or maybe if the guy would pony up with 1/2 the price of your boat so he had a vested interest in the boat. But just to split the charter fees, NO WAY.
 
Buying a boat specifically dedicated to charter service, managed by an established company, running a fleet of similar boats would be a better option.
All of the advice & question here are good. This is in my opinion top of the list.

A 100T license gives zero indication of experience and capability, just that someone says they spent 720 days on a vessel in some capacity (assuming their sea time is legit). And certainly says nothing about their integrity or marketing prowess.
Don't put too much credence in a 100 ton license. I am a small tonnage, 500 gross tons, professional with over 40 yrs exeprience. Some of the finest mariners I've ever worked with have held a 100 ton ticket. Most of the worst mariners I have ever worked with have held a 100 ton ticket.
 
Stranger says “Nice boat ya got there. Can I borrow it and take some friends out for a couple of weeks? Will toss you a few bucks”
 
Definitely not for me. I think the ONLY benefit to chartering is presumably lower cost of ownership. But I think in ALL other ways it's a negative.


I think a boat is hard enough to keep in good condition when it's only you breaking it. I don't need more help doing that. Even paid professionals seem as likely to make your boat worse rather than better.


Out boat is our second home, with our stuff, set up the way we like it. On return, I want it all the way we left it. If I wanted to share a boat, I'd be chartering a boat from someone else rather than chartering out mine.


I don't want to give up any flexibility over when I use the boat. I don't want to schedule my time, in advance, and be limited to what I schedule in advance.


I suppose if you always have a relatively small and predictable window of time when you can use your boat, and you know it's otherwise going to be sitting the rest of the time, that would largely eliminate any scheduling conflicts. But I think all the other issues remain.


I'd probably give up boating, or more to a smaller boat if the only way to continue was by chartering my boat.
 
I'd be interested to know how and why they contacted you through your website. What is your website?
 
I'd certainly want to get to know the captain better before venturing further.

My Captain? I'd do it in a heartbeat if I knew I had down time. I'd make dough, and the boat would look better when he returned it.
 
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Partnership? No thanks. A group of investors who want to form an LLC to buy a boat and charter it? Maybe. Listing it with an existing charter organization with a lot of experience? I'll listen.
 
This idea is similar to the aircraft leaseback programs. I’m not a fan. Aircraft and boats are similar. They both break and often.
 
Another way to look at the situation is if it is such a great $$ deal for the OWNERS of the boats (which is generally what they pitch), why don't the guys who approach people get financing and BUY the boats to put into charter?!? After all, in the OP's case, the guy would get the 1/3 pay from his share, the 1/3 share from the OWNER's share, AND the profit from doing his own work . . . .

Having been involved in aircraft lease backs earlier in my life, the only people I saw who benefited from leasing back an aircraft (like chartering a boat) were the ones who needed a tax LOSS as a write-off to offset profits from other sources. . . . . Not saying it doesn't work for some, but I suspect it is the minority . . . or they'd just buy the boats and double dip.
 
You've got a lot of input here. Keep in mind that no one but you will take as good care of your boat. I can relay my experience when we used to rent out our vacation home in Lake Tahoe. We found that some, not all, renters just didn't take good care of the property and things got damaged. However one of the big hassles is that you have to clear all your personal stuff away. It takes away some of the benefit of having your own boat or house when you're always having to have it prepped for strangers to use.
 
I forgot to ask if the guy that wants to do this with you is a Nigerian Prince?
 
As to "just buying" all these boats, what size, what type, how fast, how long is the trip, where to?

Having a contact list of various boats available solves a lot of these problems eh?

Our captain drives down to Marina Del Rey every 3 weeks to do a cruise for 20 to 30 person groups on an 87 foot yacht. So they go out for a day and the boat gets docked
for 3 weeks. He also does charters out of San Francisco for smaller groups on someone elses' boat.

He's a real small operation (just himself) with a lot of contacts.
 

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