Thinking of Downsizing, Options?

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Max Simmons

Max Simmons

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Joined
Oct 15, 2007
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805
Vessel Make
Ocean Alexander 38'
The reality is sinking in that maybe a 38' trawler is not the ideal boat in my current situation. Truth is that kids are out living their lives now, girlfriend travels a lot for work and family visits around the globe so I'm singlehanding more than not, and when not it's just the two of us. I got to thinking the other day that I'd be out on the water a lot more if I had a smaller boat, simple to dock single handing and able to cover some ground more quickly.
I've been looking at some bigger Grady's and Whalers that might fit the bill. Also interested in Down East style with bigger single diesel w/thruster and controls in cockpit, but rather rare in the PNW.
Must have's;
Comfortable berth
Some type of shower
A way to carry a dinghy, cruising I spend 90% of the time on the hook
I'm thinking of no more than 32 LOA
Something that does not look like a spaceship

Interested if anyone else has or is wrestling with this.
Any suggestions?
 
Going too small will start to limit your dinghy carrying abilities, but smaller does reduce the fuel penalty for going faster.

As far as single handing, it's as much about layout as size. I consider my own 38 footer totally unsuitable to operate without 2 of us on board. But I've been on other boats of similar size that would be fairly easy to dock solo. Quick access from the helm to dock lines is the most important factor, I think. Side doors from a lower helm to the side decks are a good feature there and can be found on some faster motoryacht types (including ones that don't look like spaceships).

Outside of the inability to singlehand it, I can't say our 38 feels too big with 2 of us (and a dog) on board.
 
Ranger Tugs and Cutwater are popular options for PNW and easy to single hand, especially with cockpit helm option. Very nice size for 1 person and work OK, slightly crowded (IMO) for 2. Easy to find and see them.

A Nordic 32 or American Tug 34 would be a big step up, slightly more complex for single hand but certainly doable. Much harder to find.
 
Regardless of what you may be considering, take something similar out on a lumpy day. It's easy to visualize the benefits of a smaller boat. It's hard to see how a 6' smaller boat can be so much less on a normally acceptable day. IMO, as the boat shrinks near 20% (in length substantially more by displacement), the unacceptable days may double.

Ted
 
Max Simmons said:
The reality is sinking in that maybe a 38' trawler is not the ideal boat in my current situation. Truth is that kids are out living their lives now, girlfriend travels a lot for work and family visits around the globe so I'm singlehanding more than not, and when not it's just the two of us. I got to thinking the other day that I'd be out on the water a lot more if I had a smaller boat, simple to dock single handing and able to cover some ground more quickly.
I've been looking at some bigger Grady's and Whalers that might fit the bill. Also interested in Down East style with bigger single diesel w/thruster and controls in cockpit, but rather rare in the PNW.
Must have's;
Comfortable berth
Some type of shower
A way to carry a dinghy, cruising I spend 90% of the time on the hook
I'm thinking of no more than 32 LOA
Something that does not look like a spaceship

Interested if anyone else has or is wrestling with this.
Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

I'd suggest a very careful and detailed reevaluation of what you want. You mention Grady and Whaler and Down East and you're talking much different type boats than you currently have. You mention a desire for speed. It doesn't sound to me like docking is your issue at all or like size is the issue at all. Hope they aren't as a slightly smaller boat won't be significantly easier to dock. It sounds like style, the ability to get places more quickly, is more the issue.

Then you bring up the dinghy issue and none of the boats you're talking about have that capability. But then one person or two people on the hook in 32', why do they need a dinghy? Need to go to a marina to provision, you just pull up anchor and go. Only reason would be if you have a dog.

Now, how fast do you want to go? 15 knots? 25? 35? You really need to think this through. Yes, a CC can get you speed but none of the quality overnight anchoring. A downeast style might be perfect. Or an express like a Sea Ray Sundancer. Just please back to the drawing board and outline carefully what you are looking for in a boat.
 
Maybe put a bow and stern thruster on your current boat, it will make it much more user friendly for solo operations. We put SideShift bow and stern thrusters on our current boat because my wife doesn’t want to go on the bow, low bow rails. We did the install ourselves, not too difficult if you have some basic DIY skills. The thrusters cost about $9K and another $1K for the 4 AGM batteries. It took about a day for each thruster after I had done the basics of collecting all the parts needed, although SideShift does a great job of providing almost everything you need. No holes below the waterline. Comes with a wireless joystick so all it needs is power and a remote fob so you can walk around while using the thrusters.
 
Max Simmons said:
T
I got to thinking the other day that I'd be out on the water a lot more if I had a smaller boat, simple to dock single handing and able to cover some ground more quickly.
Click to expand...


What is it about your current boat that makes single-handed docking difficult?

-Chris
 
I'd be happy to give you a tour of my Ranger Tugs 29s. I'm in Elliott Bay. Queen size (ish) bed, wet shower (its OK, not great), RIB on the back. Bow and stern thrusters with remote so you can hold it to the dock when outside or in the cockpit.
Gary
 
I live a board and cruise a 47 foot Bayliner pilothouse.

at this point in my cruising I am pulling up to a new dock that I know nothing about almost every day.

my opinion is you need to drive your boat to develop the skills to make you confident.

Learning how to dock with confidence is not something that people are born with it is something you need to practice to do. practice enough and you will be able to put your boat whatever size it is wherever you want to put it.
 
Thanks for all the feedback and I'll try to respond to some of the above comments. General backgound, been boating the last 50 yrs (I'm currently 58) in the NW, everything from a 12' aluminum skiff as a kid to power 16, 21, 27, 31, 36 and current 38 footer which I've had 17 years. Sailed a bit too moving boats around for a local yachbroker in my younger days.
The current 38 is dooable for single handing as long as everything goes smooth. I like to dock from the flybridge as the visibility is great, but getting down to step off with a line takes a few moments and things can change quick. It's easier from the lower helm, just step out the side door, but visibility is not as good.
The more I think about speed, or at least being able to cruise 15 knts or so is that it seems to me that going slow with another person or persons is enjoyable because you can enjoy conversation and scenery more, and switch back captaining duties for long hauls. I think solo I'd like the option to get somewhere quicker, or go farther in a day, as RFLifkin points out, smaller does generally reduce the penalty for speed, and you can always still go slow.
Dinghy's around here are necessary to take advantage of our great marine parks for the great hiking and exploring ashore. A foldable inflatable would be one option, but I've also seen RIBs mounted on top, but launching would be a PIA.
The small tugs popular are pretty sweet and am amazed at the amount of amenities that they can fit in there. My buddy also has a Ranger 29 which he has in a rental fleet up in Bellingham. I'm looking for something more utilitarian than that for the next boat. I like simple systems that I can diagnose and fix quickly. Understood that any big 4 stroke outboard negates that a bit, which is why I'm thinking I'd prefer to go the single diesel option in a perfect world. I won't get another stern drive, had two and that's enough.
The other thing I might add is this would be around a 5 year boat. Planning on going bigger once we get close to retirement and can start taking month long cruises, Grand Banks 46 or Defever 49 is hopefully the final boat.
I'm not in too much of a hurry, thinking more of making the jump next spring, but just trying to narrow down some options for now.
 
Hi Max, I'm not expert having recently become a boater, But researched extensively different boats and boating styles before purchasing. If my parameters were the same as yours I'd be looking for a Nordic Tug 32'. I think they can approach fast cruise at 15 knots ( at least sellers claim), carry a dingy and since you would plan on selling they seem to hold their value fairly well for resale.

Good Luck!
 
Last edited:
Max Simmons said:
The current 38 is dooable for single handing as long as everything goes smooth. I like to dock from the flybridge as the visibility is great, but getting down to step off with a line takes a few moments and things can change quick. It's easier from the lower helm, just step out the side door, but visibility is not as good.
Click to expand...


Do you have thrusters?

If not, and if docking single-handed is the biggest issue... and if you like the boat you have...

Installing bow and maybe a stern thruster -- with a remote -- could be a lot less expensive than trading boats...

-Chris
 
Greetings,
Mr. MS. We're in the same boat (situation), sorta. Our boating style/needs have changed so we've sold the "trawler" and are now looking to downsize for a somewhat different reason. I expect there will be two of us the majority of the time so solo docking is not so much of an issue and we don't anticipate needing a dinghy.


Mr. ks. makes a valid point regarding practice IF solo docking is the sole reason for a change BUT as mentioned by Mr B., it sounds like THAT is not the main reason for downsizing.


In OUR case, we would like to do more day cruising. Running the canals in Ft. Lauderdale (sightseeing), nearshore ocean fishing and potential weekend trips. Nice to be able to run over to the Bahamas for a quickie getaway or down to the Keys where speed will help. Add to that the ability to just hop on and go. It took a good 15 minutes+ to prep our Cheoy Lee for departure AND 1hr+ to shut down and close up.



We've looked at a wide variety of options from Whalers to Downeast styles. A few models are the Albin TE (Tournament Express) series in the 27' to 32' range, Mainship Pilot, Cutwater, Judge, Parker, Sisu, Cape Dory, Back Cove and a bunch I can't remember the names of. Unfortunately, the majority are just a bit too slow at cruise. I would like to run above 20 knots. NOT necessarily going to do that all the time but would still like the ability.



Currently, I am seriously looking at power catamarans and in the above size range all are outboard powered with the inherent higher fuel usage (compared to diesel). Like EVERY boat it will be a compromise, I'm sure.


Happy hunting...


iu



There is one of these for sale in California https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/2008-glacier-bay-3080-coastal-runner-8276507/ Looks REALLY good on paper and if she was anywhere on the east coast, we'd buy her!
 
I am not trying to discourage you from buying a shorter boat, it is more about how the boat is set up.
Bow and stern thruster such as Dockmate. You will have control off your thrusters and a 'crawl speed' fwd and aft.
Remember you need batteries to support your electric thrusters, which may mean you have to add another battery. Do not undersize the thrusters because it will take longer run time to accomplish what you want to do.
The 'crawl speed' is a great addition.
Now, if you really want a shorter boat, go for it. I have an Aerican Tug 34/36 with the Dockmaster. Down side, ImO, one stateroom and not enough clothing storage space for 2 people but, wish proper management, it can work. I have 4 drawers in the SR, I gave up 3 drawers to Yen and half a closet. I live out of one drawer and half a closet. We also have a storage unit. I have 5 additional custom cabinets. Washer/dryer which is okay if you like to wear wrinkled clothes or iron.
 
We've are in the PNW and have been looking at this size range. We are under contract for a 32 Nordic Tug (max speed 18kts). If speed is a key consideration, a R27 with the outboard engine might suit nicely and has a range in mid/upper 20 kts speeds I believe. C-dory, Seasport are less frilly, more fishing friendly and also have the speed and could be alternatives to the R27.
 
Were we to downsize, I too would be looking at 32-34 foot Nordic Tugs. Sundowner made a 30-foot tug, IIRC. For an older, cool style I also like the Roughwater 35s.
 
I have a buddy who bought a used, forget what year Nordic Tug 32 (newer ones the same size are now 34). HE works at the airbase in Comox and moors his boat there (where mine is as well). His house was close to the base but he sold it and bought a place on Mayne Island. His boat has a dingy.

He single hands this boat all the time, often taking the boat from Comox down to Mayne Island, I think the jump is 10 hours. He still works at the base retiring in two years so he lives partially on the boat in Comox. His wife is staying at the home on Mayne so he is usually alone on his boat, about 90% of the time.
 
RT Firefly said:
Greetings,
Mr. MS. We're in the same boat (situation), sorta. Our boating style/needs have changed so we've sold the "trawler" and are now looking to downsize for a somewhat different reason. I expect there will be two of us the majority of the time so solo docking is not so much of an issue and we don't anticipate needing a dinghy.


Mr. ks. makes a valid point regarding practice IF solo docking is the sole reason for a change BUT as mentioned by Mr B., it sounds like THAT is not the main reason for downsizing.


In OUR case, we would like to do more day cruising. Running the canals in Ft. Lauderdale (sightseeing), nearshore ocean fishing and potential weekend trips. Nice to be able to run over to the Bahamas for a quickie getaway or down to the Keys where speed will help. Add to that the ability to just hop on and go. It took a good 15 minutes+ to prep our Cheoy Lee for departure AND 1hr+ to shut down and close up.



We've looked at a wide variety of options from Whalers to Downeast styles. A few models are the Albin TE (Tournament Express) series in the 27' to 32' range, Mainship Pilot, Cutwater, Judge, Parker, Sisu, Cape Dory, Back Cove and a bunch I can't remember the names of. Unfortunately, the majority are just a bit too slow at cruise. I would like to run above 20 knots. NOT necessarily going to do that all the time but would still like the ability.



Currently, I am seriously looking at power catamarans and in the above size range all are outboard powered with the inherent higher fuel usage (compared to diesel). Like EVERY boat it will be a compromise, I'm sure.


Happy hunting...


iu



There is one of these for sale in California https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/2008-glacier-bay-3080-coastal-runner-8276507/ Looks REALLY good on paper and if she was anywhere on the east coast, we'd buy her!
Click to expand...

Sounds and looks like a nice package. Didn't see speed ratios... did I miss it?
 
I figure our 17K lb dry weight / 21K lb loaded... 34' Tollycraft tri cabin is a down size... with room still for all creature comforts; inside and out.

She'll lope along on one engine getting 3 nmpg at 4.5 to 5 knots. Below 7.58 knot hull speed she gets 2 + nmpg at 6.5 to 7 knots. Gently cruising her on plane at 16 to 17 knots she gets 1 nmpg. 22 to 23 knots is WOT. So... I could probably cruise her at 19 to 20 knots getting around .75 to .50 nmpg - But - I simply won't push these 1977 350 cid, 255 hp twins that hard.

Flor $15 to $20K I could put in a couple of supped up 350 cid engines, each with 400 +/- hp in her. Then she'd go like hell! Approaching high 30's and maybe even 40 nmph WOT?? Gentle cruise could be in the high 20's. Aggressive cruise in the low 30's.

Although, 14 years ago,, during initial sea trials I've run her at WOT [22 to 23 knots] for a few minutes and she handles OK... I do not know what will result for handling in the 30 knot and above category. Pretty nice center keel with wide spaced screws in front of good sized rudders seem to keep her on the straight and narrow.

And, I like to tow our "dinks" - called runabouts - that comfortably seat 4 and can do 30 to 40 mph. :speed boat:

Happy Down-Sizing Daze!! - Art
 
Last edited:
I do not believe the builder started this phantom 2ft addition but they embraced quickly. Take my 34ft AT. The 36ftAT is identical to my 34AT. Now, we need to come up with a new, useful measurement or just subtract 2ft from advertised length, depending upon the year.
I think the change over occurred in 2010.
 
OldDan1943 said:
I do not believe the builder started this phantom 2ft addition but they embraced quickly. Take my 34ft AT. The 36ftAT is identical to my 34AT. Now, we need to come up with a new, useful measurement or just subtract 2ft from advertised length, depending upon the year.
I think the change over occurred in 2010.
Click to expand...

Uniflite 31' and Uniflite 32' [in the 60's and 70's] were exact same hull out of same mold. Promotors lie sometimes. And the lie can stick!
 
OldDan1943 said:
I do not believe the builder started this phantom 2ft addition but they embraced quickly. Take my 34ft AT. The 36ftAT is identical to my 34AT. Now, we need to come up with a new, useful measurement or just subtract 2ft from advertised length, depending upon the year.
I think the change over occurred in 2010.
Click to expand...


I'm pretty sure it's a European market requirement. If they want to sell there, they have to list the true LOA. So the marketing sizes got moved closer to the real LOA to avoid people saying "wait, I thought it's a 34, why are you telling me it's over 36 feet?" In the past, builders often excluded bolt on parts, anchors, etc. from the LOA and instead quoted what's really the LOD as the LOA.
 
rslifkin said:
I'm pretty sure it's a European market requirement. If they want to sell there, they have to list the true LOA. So the marketing sizes got moved closer to the real LOA to avoid people saying "wait, I thought it's a 34, why are you telling me it's over 36 feet?" In the past, builders often excluded bolt on parts, anchors, etc. from the LOA and instead quoted what's really the LOD as the LOA.
Click to expand...

CG Registration is also LOA. However, model numbers and LOA have no connection. Don't think of model numbers as lengths.

Here's a European Example. Sunseeker Manhattan 63 was 69'4" LOA, 63' LOD.

Then they had a model with galley up instead of down. It became Manhattan 65, Identical hull.

Then they did a new model and labelled it a Manhattan 66. It was only slightly shorter.

Now they have a new model and it's the Manhattan 68. LOA is 69'7" and LOD is 64'.

Prior to this pattern, some builders would use length and they'd relabel a new boat the same as the old. So a 1999 32 and a 2000 32 and a 2004 32 were entirely different boats. That led to confusion. So, they went to using the nomenclature as model numbers. Now some used a system like 320 for 32' and then 325 and such. I like that concept, but it died.

There are still a few builders using the model designation to represent the LOD (Helmsman) and a few using it to represent LOA (Swift Trawler) but we all need to recognize it's just a model designation and we need to look at the dimensions separately.

Now all country documentations are LOA. Also what marinas use.
 
Single handing is different, having a door at the helm so you can step out onto the dock to tie is pretty important to me. It is easy to find the slot at the transient dock that a 30' boat will fit in, and a 36' won't. Largely it's commercial fishing boats tied here, so there are gaps I can fit into.

The shorter length in my boat doesn't limit the weather I can handle, but may limit the weather I want to handle. My boat will certainly handle weather I don't want to... I do find in larger seas I spend more of my power going up and down rather than forward, so size does matter.

If you fish (troll) you need to consider the speed of the boat at idle, some fish like their baits only at certain speeds, unless you have a trolling valve and not a mechanical transmission. Things to consider.
 
BandB said:
CG Registration is also LOA. However, model numbers and LOA have no connection. Don't think of model numbers as lengths.

Here's a European Example. Sunseeker Manhattan 63 was 69'4" LOA, 63' LOD.

Then they had a model with galley up instead of down. It became Manhattan 65, Identical hull.

Then they did a new model and labelled it a Manhattan 66. It was only slightly shorter.

Now they have a new model and it's the Manhattan 68. LOA is 69'7" and LOD is 64'.

Prior to this pattern, some builders would use length and they'd relabel a new boat the same as the old. So a 1999 32 and a 2000 32 and a 2004 32 were entirely different boats. That led to confusion. So, they went to using the nomenclature as model numbers. Now some used a system like 320 for 32' and then 325 and such. I like that concept, but it died.

There are still a few builders using the model designation to represent the LOD (Helmsman) and a few using it to represent LOA (Swift Trawler) but we all need to recognize it's just a model designation and we need to look at the dimensions separately.

Now all country documentations are LOA. Also what marinas use.
Click to expand...


On older stuff it was even worse. My boat lists the model as 381. Manufacturer literature from the 1980s lists the LOA as 38'0". However, it's actually 38'0" LOD. Measured LOA including the pulpit and swim platform is 42'4", but they never mentioned that anywhere when the boat was new.
 
AKDoug said:
Single handing is different, having a door at the helm so you can step out onto the dock to tie is pretty important to me. It is easy to find the slot at the transient dock that a 30' boat will fit in, and a 36' won't. Largely it's commercial fishing boats tied here, so there are gaps I can fit into.

The shorter length in my boat doesn't limit the weather I can handle, but may limit the weather I want to handle. My boat will certainly handle weather I don't want to... I do find in larger seas I spend more of my power going up and down rather than forward, so size does matter.

If you fish (troll) you need to consider the speed of the boat at idle, some fish like their baits only at certain speeds, unless you have a trolling valve and not a mechanical transmission. Things to consider.
Click to expand...

Also, one can add Yacht Controller or Dockmate or additional controls or docking stations to a boat fairly easily so they can dock from the side deck or stern or bow.
 
Downsizing

We went from a 60' boat to a 30' boat. No regrets. Aside from the enormous decrease in maintenance and fuel costs it's just a bunch of fun. Come on up my way one of these days and I'll take you out. There are several 30' Willards for sale in the area right now for a reasonable price. Next Saturday is the rendezvous in Oak Harbor, stop on by.
 
Greetings,
Mr. A. Can't remember specific fuel usage for that Glacier Bay but I think it was in the range of 1.5 mpg @ 26knots but don't quote me on that. Below is a different boat with less power.



290867562_1424826921322156_8951836739639161679_n.jpg
 
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