Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-03-2021, 01:15 PM   #1
Guru
 
cardude01's Avatar
 
City: Victoria TX
Vessel Name: Bijou
Vessel Model: 2008 Island Packet PY/SP
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,290
Thinking about a serpentine belt conversion

My little Yanmar 4JH4-HTE has a 110 amp Balmar alternator on it. It has always had belt slippage problems and I’m replacing the belt every three months or so plus dealing with all the belt dust.

The kit I found seems expensive, but maybe it’s worth it? I can buy a lot of belts for $430, but this would make less work in the long run.

My crank pulley has a bit of rust on it that I’ve tried to clean but can’t seem to get smooth. I think that’s helping to eat the belts.

Is a conversion worth it?

https://shop.pkys.com/Balmar-48-YSP-...TE_p_6152.html
cardude01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2021, 01:33 PM   #2
Guru
 
C lectric's Avatar
 
City: Gibsons, B.C., Canada
Vessel Name: Island Pride
Vessel Model: Palmer 32'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,409
You have to answer that for yourself of course but a lot of these kits are out there and have done a decent job of getting the alternator to do what it should do.

I don't have one but knew a fellow who did this and it helped. Of course then he ran into the problem of the alternator overheating and shutting down.

I could never convince him to turn down the output via the regulator to not over heat the alternator.

He fixed the problem by getting a much different boat.

If the only thing is the cost of the belts it may not be worth it but if you break a belt in a bad spot you may have a bigger problem. You will also lose the coolant pump leading to an overheat.

There may be belts that will do better such as some high quality Gates industrial TOP COG belts but that is a guess. Some belts do better than the stock ones with the engine.
C lectric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2021, 01:44 PM   #3
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in the Great Lakes
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,818
I prefer serpentine belts, but those people think a lot of their product, IMO. That said, if you're replacing the belt every 3 months, you need to find a solution to the problem. I would probably bite the bullet and get it done.

Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2021, 01:46 PM   #4
Guru
 
cardude01's Avatar
 
City: Victoria TX
Vessel Name: Bijou
Vessel Model: 2008 Island Packet PY/SP
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,290
Ha! Yes! Maybe I just need a new boat! [emoji38]

Another reason for wanting to do this is my alternator belt is hard to get to. I have only about 3-4” of room in front of my engine to change the belt. It’s doable obviously because I’ve done it multiple times, but I always burn myself and come out black from the belt dust.
cardude01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2021, 02:01 PM   #5
Guru
 
cardude01's Avatar
 
City: Victoria TX
Vessel Name: Bijou
Vessel Model: 2008 Island Packet PY/SP
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,290
Thinking about a serpentine belt conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by O C Diver View Post
I prefer serpentine belts, but those people think a lot of their product, IMO. That said, if you're replacing the belt every 3 months, you need to find a solution to the problem. I would probably bite the bullet and get it done.

Ted

I thought about just replacing the crank pulley that has the roughness on it, but that would require a puller and I don’t think there is room to do all that the way this stupid engine is setup so close to the bulkhead. Such a dumb design!

Cool thing about that kit is the aluminum pulley just mounts to the crank pulley with some bolts.

https://youtu.be/Yv-gquzbFh8

The OEM crank pulley is over $100, so maybe the serp kit is worth it.
cardude01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2021, 02:11 PM   #6
Guru
 
City: San Diego, CA
Vessel Name: Second Chance
Vessel Model: 42' Uniflite Double Cabin
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 828
You may or may not solve the issue with a conversion kit. A buddy did a serpentine conversion on twin FL120s with a Balmar kit and had problems with both that required custom welding to the bracketry to get everything lined up properly, the kit by itself didn't resolve alignment issues with the alternators.

Serpentine is more sensitive to alignment than v belts. He shredded at least 2 serpentines while he tried various solutions to get it under control. It's hard to say if the alignment issue was present before the conversion or not, but he also upgraded to 200 amp large frame alternators so there were multiple changes at the same time.

Getting your pulley groove cleaned up and making sure the alignment of the alternator is completely correct should solve the issue unless your pulley is so far gone that you need to replace it or have it machined.
sbman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2021, 02:15 PM   #7
Guru
 
City: San Diego, CA
Vessel Name: Second Chance
Vessel Model: 42' Uniflite Double Cabin
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 828
One suggestion for cleaning up the pulley is to take the belt off and run the engine while you apply a scotchbrite to the groove. Of course you won't want to run it very long without the water pump, but a few 30 seconds runs with cooldowns between and watching the temp should be ok. You could do it with the belt in place, but you run the risk of shredding the scotchbrite all over the place and injury as well of course. You have to be careful in any case of course.
sbman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2021, 02:56 PM   #8
Moderator Emeritus
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 21,131
I would check alignment first. Do you have a programmable regulator, if you do you could turn down the output some and see if that helps. If it is a single Vee belt they are usually good up to 100 amps so you are pushing the limits of a single Vee belt.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2021, 03:08 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
BigTime's Avatar
 
City: Jacksonville
Vessel Name: Shady Grove
Vessel Model: TMC Custom 41 Trawler & S-2 10.3 Sail
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 133
We put a serpentine kit on our Perkins 4.108 about 3 years ago because of the same issue. The belt hasn't needed adjustment since installation.
BigTime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2021, 05:30 PM   #10
CPD
Member
 
CPD's Avatar
 
City: Metcalfe
Vessel Name: Infinity
Vessel Model: Heritage East 42
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 23
We upgraded our two Volvo's from dual V-Belts to 10-rib serpentine this past summer (upgraded Alternators from nomimal 50-Amp to actual 140-Amp). While the conversion kit included an easy to install pulley overtop the original crank pulley as you describe, the replacement pulley for the Coolant Pump required removing the cooling pumps from the engines (draining all coolant), remove the old and replace with the new 10-rib pulley in the shop, then reinstall the Pumps and refill coolant. If you press fit the new pulleys with the Coolant pumps remaining installed you will likely drive the shaft back into the engine impacting the free turning of the pulley (friction and accelerated wear). Just another step in the possible conversion process to be aware of.
__________________
Chris, Ontario Canada
CPD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2021, 05:43 PM   #11
Guru
 
Marco Flamingo's Avatar
 
City: Dewatto
Vessel Name: CHiTON
Vessel Model: Tung Hwa Clipper 30
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,094
Do you already have an external regulator on your alternator? I had some black dust around my Balmer 100A alternator when I bought. I checked the settings on my Balmer ARS-5 regulator and they were just the factory settings. The PO had never taken advantage of the programing possibilities. It was not too complicated to change the settings to my actual cruising requirements. I also put on a $40 temp sensor so that if the alternator works hard enough to get hot the regulator lets is cool off. It has a different charge curve now, less stress on the belt, and no more dust.
__________________
Marco Flamingo
Marco Flamingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2021, 05:49 PM   #12
Guru
 
High Wire's Avatar
 
City: Cape May, NJ
Vessel Name: Irish Lady
Vessel Model: Monk 36
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,947
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comodave View Post
I would check alignment first. Do you have a programmable regulator, if you do you could turn down the output some and see if that helps. If it is a single Vee belt they are usually good up to 100 amps so you are pushing the limits of a single Vee belt.
This.
Check the alignment with a straight edge. If the alignment is off you will still chew up belts lightly loaded and properly tensioned.
__________________
Archie
Irish Lady
1984 Monk 36 Hull #46
Currently in Cape May, NJ
High Wire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2021, 05:49 PM   #13
Guru
 
mvweebles's Avatar
 
City: Saint Petersburg
Vessel Name: Weebles
Vessel Model: 1970 Willard 36 Trawler
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 7,166
110a is a lot to pull off a single v-belt, especially if it only wraps 120 degrees around sheave.

You have an expensive alternator and regulator. Bite the bullet and get a proper serpentine belt kit.

Peter
__________________
_______________________________________
Cruising our 1970 Willard 36 trawler from California to Florida
Join our Instagram page @MVWeebles to follow along
mvweebles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2021, 06:25 PM   #14
Guru
 
cardude01's Avatar
 
City: Victoria TX
Vessel Name: Bijou
Vessel Model: 2008 Island Packet PY/SP
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco Flamingo View Post
Do you already have an external regulator on your alternator? I had some black dust around my Balmer 100A alternator when I bought. I checked the settings on my Balmer ARS-5 regulator and they were just the factory settings. The PO had never taken advantage of the programing possibilities. It was not too complicated to change the settings to my actual cruising requirements. I also put on a $40 temp sensor so that if the alternator works hard enough to get hot the regulator lets is cool off. It has a different charge curve now, less stress on the belt, and no more dust.

It has an external regulator. I’ve programmed it before with that little magnet tool, but I need to look at it again. Maybe I have it set too aggressively. Thanks.
cardude01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2021, 06:27 PM   #15
Guru
 
cardude01's Avatar
 
City: Victoria TX
Vessel Name: Bijou
Vessel Model: 2008 Island Packet PY/SP
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvweebles View Post
110a is a lot to pull off a single v-belt, especially if it only wraps 120 degrees around sheave.

You have an expensive alternator and regulator. Bite the bullet and get a proper serpentine belt kit.

Peter

I’m generally a cheap bastard, but I’m beginning to lean this way.
cardude01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2021, 06:28 PM   #16
Guru
 
cardude01's Avatar
 
City: Victoria TX
Vessel Name: Bijou
Vessel Model: 2008 Island Packet PY/SP
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by High Wire View Post
This.

Check the alignment with a straight edge. If the alignment is off you will still chew up belts lightly loaded and properly tensioned.

How would I check alignment? It’s really hard to see in there!
cardude01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2021, 07:03 PM   #17
Guru
 
catalinajack's Avatar
 
City: Edgewater, MD
Vessel Name: Catalina Jack
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,585
I mounted a double belt setup on one of my FL 120s. It has worked out quite well. My crank pulley was already a double so I just needed the Lehman double alternator pulley from Balmar and a water pump pulley. The second unused pulley on the crank was painted and rough. It needed to be cleaned up. I used a Milwaukee battery-powered right-angle die grinder fitted with a wire wheel. Worked like a charm. I just needed to rotate the engine a bit to expose uncleaned sections until all was bright and shiny. There are serpentine kits ( Balmar and a Canadian company) but I was unable to use one because my stabilizer pump is mounted to the crank pulley.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbman View Post
You may or may not solve the issue with a conversion kit. A buddy did a serpentine conversion on twin FL120s with a Balmar kit and had problems with both that required custom welding to the bracketry to get everything lined up properly, the kit by itself didn't resolve alignment issues with the alternators.

Serpentine is more sensitive to alignment than v belts. He shredded at least 2 serpentines while he tried various solutions to get it under control. It's hard to say if the alignment issue was present before the conversion or not, but he also upgraded to 200 amp large frame alternators so there were multiple changes at the same time.

Getting your pulley groove cleaned up and making sure the alignment of the alternator is completely correct should solve the issue unless your pulley is so far gone that you need to replace it or have it machined.
catalinajack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2021, 07:16 PM   #18
Guru
 
Tator's Avatar
 
City: Bainbridge Island/Petersburg Alaska
Vessel Name: Oz
Vessel Model: Bluewater 40' RPH 1979
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 514
I run two (1 on each engine) 150amp alternators on my Lehmans. I usually pull 120 amps each at my cruising rpms for hours to charge my 1100ah bank. I have a single 5/8 Gates Greenstripe cogged belt on each alternator. They do not power anything else. I have now had the same belts on for 14 years and approx. 3300hrs. There is a little bit of dust on the engine frts. I believe proper alignment and tension is the key. Use a straight edge to check alignment and also visually observe how the belts are riding on each pulley. Make sure the belt has the same angle as the pulley and that both pulleys match as far as groove angle, width. If you can access the front enough, a pair of calipers can be handy.

Tator
Tator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2021, 07:19 PM   #19
Guru
 
tiltrider1's Avatar
 
City: Seattle
Vessel Name: AZZURRA
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 54
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 4,281
In the auto world, serpentine belts use belt tensioners. There is a reason, exactly why I don't know but one should research it and find out why. It might be simply belt stretch on acceleration but it might be something else.

Those look like some very nice anodized aluminum pulleys. Considering the small number of sales, the greater expense to build over steel pulleys, its not surprising the kit costs in the $400 range.

Is it worth it. That is more of a personal decision. Unfortunately this does not look like a risk free decision.
tiltrider1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2021, 08:02 PM   #20
Guru
 
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft 381 Catalina
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 7,538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tator View Post
I run two (1 on each engine) 150amp alternators on my Lehmans. I usually pull 120 amps each at my cruising rpms for hours to charge my 1100ah bank. I have a single 5/8 Gates Greenstripe cogged belt on each alternator. They do not power anything else. I have now had the same belts on for 14 years and approx. 3300hrs. There is a little bit of dust on the engine frts. I believe proper alignment and tension is the key. Use a straight edge to check alignment and also visually observe how the belts are riding on each pulley. Make sure the belt has the same angle as the pulley and that both pulleys match as far as groove angle, width. If you can access the front enough, a pair of calipers can be handy.

Tator
Those big belts aren't quite as good as a multi V, but they'll certainly transmit more power than the typical 3/8 or 1/2 inch V belts.
rslifkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012