They should have asked our Gurus for advice

[ancora]

(Ottawa) Canada's 227 million dollar fleet of Hero Class CG cutters (137' long, 23' beam) roll "like crazy" making crews seasick and keeping the boats in port during weather conditions in which they should be able to operate.-CBC News reported.

 

[menzies]

Must be full displacement. Now if they were a bit flatter at the stern....

 

[Comodave]

Did they name them Hero Class because you have to be heroic to get underway on them?

 

[Simi 60]

Must be full displacement. Now if they were a bit flatter at the stern....

they would most likely still be full displacement.

 

[MurrayM]

What's the source of your information...got a link?

 

[MurrayM]

I Googled your text and nothing came up...

 

[Shrew]

What's the source of your information...got a link?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/coast-guard-ships-can-t-handle-rough-seas-1.5009312

 

[Benthic2]

New Canadian cutters roll 'like crazy,' making crews sick - Professional Mariner - Web Bulletin 2019

 

[Simi 60]

. At issue is the lack of stabilizer fins — blades that stick out from the hull to counteract the rolling motion of waves — on nine Hero class ships that were built by the Irving Shipyard in Halifax between 2010 and 2014.

Taken them a while to address the issue.

 

[MurrayM]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/coast-guard-ships-can-t-handle-rough-seas-1.5009312

...stabilizers should never have been removed from the original design.

Bean counters trying to save money should stay out of the way

 

[ancora]

Chump change compared to what the USCG p......d away in Deepwater operation.

 

[sbu22]

Might be an opportunity for a couple of big Seakeepers per boat. At a couple of hundred thousand each (+ install) and no vanes.

 

[Wxx3]

I think there is far more to the story.
It's not "new" news.

And I wonder if it relates to a generation that doesn't like any discomfort?

 

[psneeld]

Chump change compared to what the USCG p......d away in Deepwater operation.

Maybe because the whole Deepwater concept was founded in letting "private enterprise" determine what and design what the USCG needed leading into this century.


So maybe who says "private business can do it better"....?


The USCG has had its share of rolly poly cutter too....

 

[JDCAVE]

Murray: I believe the “Captain Goddard” is one of those vessels.

 

[Delfin]

Since the vessel has a top speed of 1.8x hull speed, it's clearly a full displacement hull, since FD hulls are also SD, but can also plane. Or so I am assured.

Seriously, what did they expect the roll to be like on a really narrow, shallow draft hull without stabilization?

"More than a year later, in May 2018, Wyse relayed an unidentified at-sea testimonial: "I'm rolling 15 degrees port and starboard (30 degrees total) out here today and the winds are less than 10 knots and seas are less than one metre. We need to make this platform more workable."

 

[MurrayM]

My wife and I sea kayaked into Klemtu, BC (in late November 28 years ago) where we had to wait five days for a hurricane force storm to play itself out. There was a new Coast Guard vessel there that went out into Finlayson Channel during the storm. Talking to the crew dockside afterwards made us happy we weren't aboard! Seems to be an ongoing issue.

edit: Avatar photo is Canoona Falls taken on that trip which is romping away after weeks of rain.

 

[Delfin]

Maybe because the whole Deepwater concept was founded in letting "private enterprise" determine what and design what the USCG needed leading into this century.


So maybe who says "private business can do it better"....?


The USCG has had its share of rolly poly cutter too....

Not sure what the alternative to private business building this stuff would be, since every weapons system we've deployed since the 18th century has been built by private enterprise.

The Deepwater project was a cock up because the Coast Guard lacked the personnel, expertise and time to review, understand, and approve any design tweaks from what they initially approved. This made it possible for bad design, corruption, etc. to screw the program up.

A good book I just finished on how private enterprise made winning WW2 possible is "Freedom's Forge". Once the government got out of the way, companies like GM, Ford, etc. started pumping out so much war material that Japan and Germany were doomed. I believe the record Kaiser set for getting a liberty ship from drawing board to water was just over 4 days. NYC is still trying to finish the 911 memorial.

 

[Boatfever]

It would be interesting (to me anyway) to see the stability booklet for one of this class of cutter as well as what was written in the spec for stability requirements.

 

[IRENE]

The CCG version is a Damen 4207 design, which is similar to the USCG version, a Damen 4708 design. There are many differences on the equipment spec of each boat. Interestingly, the USCG version has active fins. It looks like some of the yacht tender versions have fins and/or zero speed stabilizers.

Here is an article about the design of the Damen “axe bow” patrol boats.

https://worldmaritimenews.com/archi...vessel-delivered-to-cape-verdean-coast-guard/

Also see post #923 here:

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/interesting-boats-10046-19.html

From Damen:

https://www.damen.com/en/innovation/some-key-projects/sea-axe-design

“Damen’s relatively slender Sea Axe hull forms are particularly suited to roll stabilisation using gyro stabilizers.”

https://magazine.damen.com/markets/...-access-on-damens-fcs-5009-to-the-next-level/

Interesting video here:

https://magazine.damen.com/markets/...-access-on-damens-fcs-5009-to-the-next-level/

 

[psneeld]

Not sure what the alternative to private business building this stuff would be, since every weapons system we've deployed since the 18th century has been built by private enterprise.

The Deepwater project was a cock up because the Coast Guard lacked the personnel, expertise and time to review, understand, and approve any design tweaks from what they initially approved. This made it possible for bad design, corruption, etc. to screw the program up.

A good book I just finished on how private enterprise made winning WW2 possible is "Freedom's Forge". Once the government got out of the way, companies like GM, Ford, etc. started pumping out so much war material that Japan and Germany were doomed. I believe the record Kaiser set for getting a liberty ship from drawing board to water was just over 4 days. NYC is still trying to finish the 911 memorial.

So you consider the Navy and USCG yard builds still commercial?


Comparing industry today to the WWII period is completely off my scale. I see it every day in the private businesses I work for. Heck, two of my old bosses hired a disproportional number of retired Coasties....because their work ethic and most things clearly exceeded his usual labor pool.



And that lack of personnel/with experience is exactly why the Deepwater project was created....because the USCG was tired of being accused of incompetence. Not sure total blowback goes on the USCG.

 

[Delfin]

So you consider the Navy and USCG yard builds still commercial?


Comparing industry today to the WWII period is completely off my scale. I see it every day in the private businesses I work for. Heck, two of my old bosses hired a disproportional number of retired Coasties....because their work ethic and most things clearly exceeded his usual labor pool.



And that lack of personnel/with experience is exactly why the Deepwater project was created....because the USCG was tired of being accused of incompetence. Not sure total blowback goes on the USCG.

You're quite right, and I was wrong - the Yards are Navy or USCG run, but with a great deal of the work done by a great many subs, but I over stated the case.

Deepwater, from what I've read, sounds like an equal opportunity cock up. I was reacting to what I thought was your suggestion that private enterprise was the culprit in that boondoggle, and I don't think that is the case.

 

[psneeld]

Not so sure private wasn't the biggest drawback in Deepwater and thankfully it was ONLY Deepwater that was set in motion. The USCG had much boroader plans for the same model in other aspects of the USCG......I sat in on a lot of early meetings and was even courted by Cessna Aircraft for thinking outside the box...and that was their job.


Nope.... I have EXACTLY the same respect for governments and private industry.


Neither has proven the better to me in my lifetime. Hghs and lows on both sides of that seesaw as far as I am concerned....and I had near 20 years on both sides of the fence....with experience in procurement, contracting and operations in both. Doesn't make me an expert, but .....