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Old 10-21-2018, 03:54 PM   #41
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I have many friends who are freelance captains, yacht managers and others in the industry. I've found almost all undercharge for some of their work and don't maximize income. They charge no extra for a 16 hour day or they charge the same hourly rate as checking on the boat when they're doing mechanical work.

The Marine Max's of the world have no grasp of building talent. A few larger shipyards I know do understand. In any business, I feel you build a team by hiring the best and smartest for entry level positions and developing and training them. Then retain them so you're not training them for others. There are many young men and women showing an interest in mechanical, electrical and even fiberglass work. Find the best, bring them in at the lowest positions and year by year watch them rise. I think of young men like Oliver, who was doing complex work and even coming on here and advising others when he was 14 and he loved learning more and more. There are others out there like him and you hire them when they graduate from high school and five years later they'll be among your best and not long after that a department head. Send them to manufacturer's schools and other advanced training. If someone retires or leaves you for another reason and you don't have the replacement already in house then you're just not doing it right. Hire, train, promote. Simple. Actually "Hire, Train and Deploy" is a very popular model buzz term today in many industries.

I would rather have employees trained in my environment and methods too.
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Old 10-21-2018, 04:30 PM   #42
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A big factor for the dearth of employees is the insurance company's hard attitude toward drug users. With the sophisticated drug testin' of today, it's "you use, you lose" even when not on the job.
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Old 10-21-2018, 05:48 PM   #43
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A big factor for the dearth of employees is the insurance company's hard attitude toward drug users. With the sophisticated drug testin' of today, it's "you use, you lose" even when not on the job.
What insurance companies are you referring to in what industries? I haven't faced any interest or pressure from insurers.
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Old 10-21-2018, 06:56 PM   #44
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I have many friends who are freelance captains, yacht managers and others in the industry. I've found almost all undercharge for some of their work and don't maximize income. They charge no extra for a 16 hour day or they charge the same hourly rate as checking on the boat when they're doing mechanical work.

The Marine Max's of the world have no grasp of building talent. A few larger shipyards I know do understand. In any business, I feel you build a team by hiring the best and smartest for entry level positions and developing and training them. Then retain them so you're not training them for others. There are many young men and women showing an interest in mechanical, electrical and even fiberglass work. Find the best, bring them in at the lowest positions and year by year watch them rise. I think of young men like Oliver, who was doing complex work and even coming on here and advising others when he was 14 and he loved learning more and more. There are others out there like him and you hire them when they graduate from high school and five years later they'll be among your best and not long after that a department head. Send them to manufacturer's schools and other advanced training. If someone retires or leaves you for another reason and you don't have the replacement already in house then you're just not doing it right. Hire, train, promote. Simple. Actually "Hire, Train and Deploy" is a very popular model buzz term today in many industries.

I would rather have employees trained in my environment and methods too.
The biggest problem with this model is how big a boatyard you have to be to make it work. With so many specialized trades (fiberglass, paint, plumbing, electrical, electronics, interior carpentry, engine repair, etc) it's difficult to have several employees in different stages of proficiency for each trade. Unfortunately, this business model doesn't lower the consumer's cost (economy of scale), it tends to drive it through the roof. Certainly there are some markets that can support this business model, but very few.

Ted
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Old 10-21-2018, 07:11 PM   #45
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Mandatory drug testin' has affected the truckin' industry, maritime industry, transportation industry, et al. Now that random drug testin' is the norm, drug users are findin' themselves havin' to choose whether to stay clean or have a job.
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Old 10-21-2018, 07:11 PM   #46
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The biggest problem with this model is how big a boatyard you have to be to make it work. With so many specialized trades (fiberglass, paint, plumbing, electrical, electronics, interior carpentry, engine repair, etc) it's difficult to have several employees in different stages of proficiency for each trade. Unfortunately, this business model doesn't lower the consumer's cost (economy of scale), it tends to drive it through the roof. Certainly there are some markets that can support this business model, but very few.

Ted
Exactly Ted...that's why in areas where the talent pool is small, mobile or seasonal.....marine service tends to be awfu.....l not absolutely...but in comparison to many other business models.
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Old 10-21-2018, 08:20 PM   #47
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Mandatory drug testin' has affected the truckin' industry, maritime industry, transportation industry, et al. Now that random drug testin' is the norm, drug users are findin' themselves havin' to choose whether to stay clean or have a job.
Do you get tested? Results?
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Old 10-21-2018, 08:58 PM   #48
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Exactly Ted...that's why in areas where the talent pool is small, mobile or seasonal.....marine service tends to be awfu.....l not absolutely...but in comparison to many other business models.
I think you are mistaken. It's not the talent pool, it's a large enough customer base willing to pay well above industry average prices. One only has to look ar any real estate market that went from low to middle income and then became the land of the rich and famous. Martha's Vineyard is a good example. Have been going there for almost 60 years. Until the Clintons started vacationing there it was middle class. After it became the place to go, the trade pool changed with transplants who had the skill to build the multi million dollar Mcmansions. Think you could open a boatyard most anywhere, offer the trades $60+ per hour and have no shortage of qualified people willing to come work there.

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Old 10-21-2018, 11:38 PM   #49
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Old joke:

Woman calls plumber because water is gushing under the kitchen sink. Technician does the simple reconnect in 15 minutes, bills her for $190.

She's outraged, sputters, "Why thats nearly $800 an hour! My husband is a neurosurgeon; he doesn't make that kind of money!"

Plumber days, "Yeah, I didn't make that kind of money when I was a neurosurgeon either."
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Old 10-22-2018, 12:15 AM   #50
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Mandatory drug testin' has affected the truckin' industry, maritime industry, transportation industry, et al. Now that random drug testin' is the norm, drug users are findin' themselves havin' to choose whether to stay clean or have a job.
That has nothing to do with insurance companies though, it's DOT and to a lesser degree USCG. It also doesn't have to lead to termination. There are steps to return to the job so it's not a lifetime ban or even required termination.

It's very interesting to look at the list. It's marijuana, cocaine, opiates, amphetamines and methamphetamines, and PCP. Nothing else.
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Old 10-22-2018, 12:23 AM   #51
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The biggest problem with this model is how big a boatyard you have to be to make it work. With so many specialized trades (fiberglass, paint, plumbing, electrical, electronics, interior carpentry, engine repair, etc) it's difficult to have several employees in different stages of proficiency for each trade. Unfortunately, this business model doesn't lower the consumer's cost (economy of scale), it tends to drive it through the roof. Certainly there are some markets that can support this business model, but very few.

Ted
Smaller yards have to do more cross-training and that's on experienced workers and those being developed. If they have two senior employees they can be training and develop one junior. That will actually lower costs as they'll have the junior doing less skilled work and not be paying the senior to do them. Then lower further in that when they need more skill, they will have developed it and won't have to go pay dearly to bring it in.

It's more difficult for some than others and in some locations. The biggest challenge I see is the seasonality of business in colder climates. That requires smart management with vacations during those times, with education and training in those times, and finding work to help fill those times. I've seen yards that solicited all the painting business they could for off season and every employee regardless of normal job, helped with the painting.
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Old 10-22-2018, 05:53 AM   #52
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Smaller yards have to do more cross-training and that's on experienced workers and those being developed. If they have two senior employees they can be training and develop one junior. That will actually lower costs as they'll have the junior doing less skilled work and not be paying the senior to do them. Then lower further in that when they need more skill, they will have developed it and won't have to go pay dearly to bring it in.
While I agree with you that it's done, the quality of world suffers. Many of these jobs require a gift, dedication or enjoyment to the employee for them to excel. Painting is a good example. A top of the line spray painter has a gift for it, you can only teach so much. Now you can have that junior employee doing other paint related work such as sanding, but when the senior employee leaves, the junior employee still isn't a painter.

Ted
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