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Old 08-05-2022, 06:10 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by gilbertpark View Post
Have a look at page 14/15 of this Cat document. I had a 3116 and this explains the reason Cat thinks you shouldn't use a multigrade. I do not know if it applies to your engine or not. CAT may do an updated document- worth looking for.

Gilbert
Cat does recommend multi grade oil, including synthetic, see page 8. The 3116 is a bit of a special case and for that motor, only single grade.
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Old 08-05-2022, 06:13 PM   #22
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After researching opinions on engine oil for my 3208NA’s on marinediesel.com, the site Cat expert “dave” recommended using a single grade CG-4, for example Rotella T 30W, to reduce engine smoke and oil consumption.
The engines have always used Cat 15W-40 previously, but smoking on start up and using approximately 1 litre per 100 hours.

I’d be interested in hearing others opinions on this, and hope it’s not too far from thread discussions.
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Old 08-05-2022, 06:58 PM   #23
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On post #19 there’s quite a few mentions of single wt. oil.

And in post #20 “The excellent oiliness (a lower coefficient of friction of one oil compared to another fluid of the same viscosity) of synthetic oils reduces engine wear during the initial, critical engine startup."
That’s an assumption as many (mostly all) other oils also offer that feature. I think lubrication at start-up is mostly assured by a higher viscosity oil being used in the first place. I’ve never seen any real evidence of excessive wear during start-up. People are thinking based on a “sounds good” platform and the assumptions that follows.

Southern Boater,
I, we are in a minority on this one so do appreciate your input.
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Old 08-05-2022, 07:39 PM   #24
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Iíve never seen any real evidence of excessive wear during start-up.
Here you go...


https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/167/synthetic-gear-oil

www.researchgate.net/publication/286788628_Using_synthetic_basestocks_to_reduce_wea r

https://forums.tdiclub.com/index.php?threads/diesel-engine-wear.18125/
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Old 08-05-2022, 08:12 PM   #25
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Well, I use Royal Purple duralec 15w-40 in my Cummins 6BTa engines, and my generator.

Will it help anything??? I have no clue but I feel better about it.
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Old 08-05-2022, 09:15 PM   #26
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Not clickable on my i-pad.
Can you tell me what percentage of reduction in drag and roughly under what conditions? I’ve always assumed it to be correct but to be meaningful the drag reduction would need to be (guessing) 5% or more. One percent would make it true but it woulldn’t have any value.

Strange but It’s clickable in a quote ..but not as posted.
I scanned the links. Reads like someone’s selling something and info. is lacking for operation under normal conditions and temps. All the info I saw was gathered (or was claimed to be) gathered while operating under extreme conditions.
I see that drag/friction is reduced but not in normal conditions.

I’ll stick by thinner oil drains off vertical surfaces much faster than thicker oil. And residual oil is the explanation that there is lubrication available at start-up. I had a two stroke (40hp twin) engine on an ultralight aircraft and when I took off the exhaust system and could see into the exhaust ports it looked like the pistons had paint brush marks on the vertical surface of the pistons. The only other theory was that the piston had been scored to the extreme. But the engine turned over freely.
It was obvious that it was a relatively heavy coating of oil (synthetic well over 50 weight) that had adhered to the piston. I could feel it w my fingers. Thick and slippery. Engine hadn’t been run for a week either.

So I’m thinking residual oil works very well and it’s the only thing that indicates it works is cars like my 87 Nissan w 304,000 miles on it using dino 10w30wt. it’s whole life .. except just straight 30w. It’s 2/3rds of a Nissan Z car engine (4cyl).
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Old 08-05-2022, 10:15 PM   #27
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Some might disagree. Regarding improved lubricity, countless studies have shown improved wear characteristics of synthetic oils over mineral oils. If that is not improved lubricity, let me know the correct word to use.

https://www.caranddriver.com/researc...synthetic-oil/

"The excellent oiliness (a lower coefficient of friction of one oil compared to another fluid of the same viscosity) of synthetic oils reduces engine wear during the initial, critical engine startup."

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/tr...just-extra-hp/
I'm sorry but "Car and Driver' or "Motor Trend' are not scientific resources. In fact in 35 years of lubricant development neither I or any other scientists I worked with ever referred to these publications for information of any type.
The proper source for studies on the relative performance of oils would be peer reviewed publications such as SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers), STLE (Society of Tribology and Lubrication Engineers), and similar sources. I won't bother with the technical details but suffice to say that a) almost all modern oils are 'synthetic' in that they use synthesized base oil b) almost all of the performance of oils is determined by the performance additive system and c) differences in 'wear' used for marketing claims are almost always based on tests which have little to no real world relevance. Very often these are bench scale tests designed for marketing purposes.
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Old 08-06-2022, 10:36 AM   #28
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You should continue to use what the engine has been using.
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Old 08-06-2022, 11:05 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by ksanders View Post
Well, I use Royal Purple duralec 15w-40 in my Cummins 6BTa engines, and my generator.

Will it help anything??? I have no clue but I feel better about it.
If it makes you feel good then by all means keep doing it Kevin. No argument with feeling some love for your boat.

If you are doing it because you think your engine is going to live longer? That's a false economy. There is no real world proof that a 20,000 hour 3208 will become 30,000 hour engine if you run synthetic. Add to the fact that almost all of us will never see 10,000 hours on a 3208.

There is lots of proof that the wrong oil is superior to no oil.
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Old 08-06-2022, 04:29 PM   #30
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Oil for yacht engines...

Oil for yacht engines – Cox Engineering
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Old 08-06-2022, 04:41 PM   #31
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Well thatís the first time I have seen a claim that full synthetic is bad for an engine.
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Old 08-06-2022, 05:10 PM   #32
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I read the article wherein the author keeps referring to yacht “ auxiliary” motors. My sense was that he was perhaps discussing smaller sailboat motors that may not be germane to this discussion? See what you think.
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Old 08-06-2022, 09:18 PM   #33
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I don't know when this was written but the performance claims referenced in the text are out of date, by decades. Also the description of base oil being distilled from crude oil is also no longer applicable. No modern base oil is made this way, hydrocracking and isomerization is nearly universal, i.e. the base oil is synthesized by breaking apart the molecules and reassembling them in a configuration suitable for lubricating oil.

While there are API CD oils SAE 30/40 still marketed, mainly in the less developed world, these are lower performance engine oils with no actual testing supporting their claims (tests are long obsolete and not available). Oh, and the recommendation against synthetic may be a hang over from early seal problems as well as the typical wide viscosity cross grade of synthetics which may not be ideal in older diesels.
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Old 08-06-2022, 09:24 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Bonedoc View Post
I read the article wherein the author keeps referring to yacht ď auxiliaryĒ motors. My sense was that he was perhaps discussing smaller sailboat motors that may not be germane to this discussion? See what you think.
In the UK, and Australia, yacht = sailboat, as it is used in USA. So yes.
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Old 08-06-2022, 09:36 PM   #35
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Well, I use Royal Purple duralec 15w-40 in my Cummins 6BTa engines, and my generator.

Will it help anything??? I have no clue but I feel better about it.
The Royal Purple product should be equivalent to the main line oils like Delo 400 or Rotella T. Royal Purple is a smaller marketer so I don't know exactly who is providing their technology, most likely Lubrizol or maybe Infineum. The lubricant additive suppliers develop and qualify almost all the oils. The companies who actually develop and qualify the additive technology are Lubrizol, Chevron-Oronite, Infineum, and Afton. But in any case it is certain Royal Purple purchases an additive package qualified for use in the base oil(s) that they purchase. In other words I wouldn't worry about using it.
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Old Yesterday, 02:38 AM   #36
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You can use synthetic but itís a waste of money. Synthetic is just standard oil that as been further refined. Itís purpose is to not break down when used in tight clearance applications like modern high performance engines. 3208ís like heavy duty motor oil. Shell T4 or Delco 400. You can use T5 or T6 but you wonít gain anything.
Synthetic oil is not further refined standard oil. Feedstock oil is distilled into all its component parts and then recombined in the exact ratios required for best performance and longevity. The impurities in standard oil arenít present in synthetic because itís not there to begin with. And the component parts are in the exact proportions needed. Standard oil is feedstock oil refined to the desired viscosity, as many impurities as possible are filtered out, and each brand adds their own proprietary additives. Thereís really no comparison when it comes to an engineered oil solution.

I recently converted my twin 454 gassers to full synthetic with no seal leakage at all and my expectation is that the oil will be viable for much longer with less impurity driven degradation.

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Old Yesterday, 10:49 AM   #37
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Synthetic oil is not further refined standard oil. Feedstock oil is distilled into all its component parts and then recombined in the exact ratios required for best performance and longevity. The impurities in standard oil arenít present in synthetic because itís not there to begin with. And the component parts are in the exact proportions needed. Standard oil is feedstock oil refined to the desired viscosity, as many impurities as possible are filtered out, and each brand adds their own proprietary additives. Thereís really no comparison when it comes to an engineered oil solution.

I recently converted my twin 454 gassers to full synthetic with no seal leakage at all and my expectation is that the oil will be viable for much longer with less impurity driven degradation.

Tak
Your 454ís will last just as long on standard oil as they will with synthetic oil. While I might not be technically correct in my statement neither is the name synthetic.
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Old Yesterday, 11:37 AM   #38
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Is anyone aware of any marine engine failures due to lube oil that was changed on schedule?
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Old Yesterday, 11:55 AM   #39
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So besides anecdotal feel good stories and perhaps a few special situations my older mechanical Yanmar 6-LPA (400 hr) will do fine with Shell Rotella T1 dino with annual changes including filter… and I’ll concern myself with other issues.
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