Survey Results

[CaptBud]

Has anyone considered "selling" survey results for a boat currently on the market? Surveys are expensive especially the good ones. There is a trawler currently for sale and I had a C/V, engine, and electrical survey performed on the boat and discovered "many" problems primary was electrical in nature with signs of overheated wiring and fusing issues.


I'm concerned about the safety of the boat and would like to make potential purchasers who might not spend the time or money to have a through survey performed aware of the potential issues.


Another concern was the lack of engine room fire protection. My thought was some sort of extinguishing agent was required physically located in the engine room.......any comments would be appreciated

 

[tiltrider1]

What is your agreement with the surveyor? Do you have the right to sell his report? If you have the right then it’s yours to sell if you like. If your agreement with the surveyor does not give you the right to sell the report you would be violating contract law.

 

[CaptBud]

Survey sale

I have the right to sell, I'm more concerned about the owner suing me for making the information available...........?

 

[DavidM]

Sometimes a buyer who walked away from a boat will sell his survey (if permitted by the surveyor) to another buyer who subsequently has a contract to purchase the boat. The broker usually "brokers" the deal and the cost is usually half of the original survey price.

But you are what, going to advertise that survey for sale? I wouldn't and the seller may have a cause of action against you for interfering with any potential sales.

David

 

[Bacchus]

I have the right to sell, I'm more concerned about the owner suing me for making the information available...........?

I'm no legal beagle but my $0.02
Id refrain from offering any of your opinions or concerns but would only offer to $hare your survey with others.
That way you can hopefully deflect any concerns from owner to the surveyor that is "certified" and I'll bet hard to refute his findings / report. Others then get to make their own decisions based on (hopefully) factual findings.

 

[CaptBud]

Survey sale

I agree.....I have spoken to the broker about selling the survey to a potential buyer at half the cost but he made no commitment. The boat asking price is primarily based on the reputation of the maker of the boat and based on survey results it is over priced. My feelings are they are looking for a buyer that is shopping strictly by manufacturer and is willing to pay full asking price. The boat is well made but according to the surveys and my past experiences with boat yard work it is going to require a least 25 to 30 thousand dollars to bring it up to standards,,,,,,can't say enough about getting proper surveys done.

 

[SteveK]

Offer it to the seller for half price. After all it is now known what could be wrong and a honest seller would show it to a buyer. The buyer could end up buying true to the honesty display is how you present the offer to seller.

 

[CaptBud]

Provided you are dealing with "an honest seller" it's a;ll about the Benjamins....I'm sure you have heard that before

 

[Arc]

Unfortunately a survey is often opinionated. So it could be argued. If you blow the guys sale on a big ticket boat he could sue. Hell you can sue anybody for anything. Is you simple gain worth the risk? Just let the next buyer get his own information. They may see thing differently.

 

[SoWhat]

I'm concerned about the safety of the boat and would like to make potential purchasers who might not spend the time or money to have a through survey performed aware of the potential issues.
Another concern was the lack of engine room fire protection. My thought was some sort of extinguishing agent was required physically located in the engine room.......any comments would be appreciated

Your post has just established intent, one of the elements required to support a tortious interference claim.

 

[BruceK]

CaptBud, what is the motivation? To save someone else from spending for no reward, to give the Seller grief for offering a boat that to your mind surveyed negatively, to negotiate with the seller, or something else?
What your survey uncovered, based on your brief summary, with appropriate $ yielded into the pot by the Seller, does not sound insurmountable. Is the boat simply unsalable? Is there a price at which you would buy it? Will the Seller take less?

 

[CaptBud]

Between a rock and a hard place! Would it be appropriate to walk away from a fire without reporting it ?

 

[BruceK]

Noted. Is there a supervising maritime safety Authority responsible for vessel safety in the area? If there is, and the owner is resolute to do nothing to correct the issues, perhaps that`s who needs to know. A limited type of publication, to someone with a need to know in order to perform their safety function.
But, get advice as to any exposure you may have to weigh it against doing your perceived duty as a "neighbour" of others potentially exposed.

 

[moparharn]

What about the person who walked away before you? Did he tell you about the issues? (I am of course playing devils advocate and making this assumption about the guy before you). It seems it is the moral responsibility of the seller to make a buyer aware of an issue that could result in injury or death. You have a moral responsibility to make the seller aware that his boat is showing signs of a very dangerous condition. Beyond that I do not see how it lies in your hands from a moral perspective. Too many pitfalls here. Should a buyer come to you and ask about your experience I would simply say that if there were no serious concerns the boat would be in front of your house right now and leave it at that. That should be enough for anyone to want to dig deep. As for your survey money- best money you ever spent, be glad. Bill

 

[Arc]

Between a rock and a hard place! Would it be appropriate to walk away from a fire without reporting it ?

Ignoring something that IS happening is totally different then ignoring something that MIGHT happen.

 

[CaptainSEA]

I would simply send the survey report free of charge to the seller so that he will have the moral / legal obligation to disclose the issues to the next buyer.

 

[boatpoker]

As a surveyor I say ...
You paid for that report. It belongs to you and has value. Sell it if you choose.
Not at all unusual for the seller to buy the survey at 50% so he can address the issues or adjust his price accordingly

 

[CaptBud]

If the intent of the forum is to stimulate boat related conversation I would say I have been successful. One would think a broker would initiate a pre-listing survey for his own liability and to protect his reputation in the market place. I myself wouldn't want to sell a boat without knowing it's condition nor would I purchase a boat without knowledge of same. Gentlemen and ladies I appreciate the conversations.......it gives all of us something to think about now and in the future.

 

[firehoser75]

I would simply send the survey report free of charge to the seller so that he will have the moral / legal obligation to disclose the issues to the next buyer.

Bud,
+1.
If your goal here is to ensure (to the best of your ability) that some unsuspecting buyer does not buy a "dangerous" boat, then the above post is very appropriate in my opinion. However, I would also send a copy of the survey to the listing broker as well!
If you are more or equally interested in "recouping" some of your costs, then you may try to "sell" the survey to the seller.
Unless you were approached by a potential buyer asking to purchase your survey, I would not go out of my way to sell the survey to a potential buyer. I am no lawyer, but the potential downsides are too high in my opinion for the little money we are talking about. Just having to hire a lawyer to write a letter could cost as much as the money you are expecting from this survey sale to say nothing of legal costs for a court proceeding?? Not worth the potential aggravation either (not the economics in this case) in my opinion.
Good luck with whatever you decide.

Edit: Just saw your post ahead of mine.
As a buyer, I would not rely on a survey paid for by the seller. I would not dismiss it either. However, if as the seller, it gives you comfort to know with more certainty that you are selling a boat in good condition, then that might be a good reason to obtain a "pre-sale" survey. Your point about the listing broker has some merit IMHO.

 

[boatpoker]

One would think a broker would initiate a pre-listing survey for his own liability and to protect his reputation in the market place.

I've been in the business for a few decades and have known hundreds of brokers. I know two who advise pre-listing surveys by the best surveyors around. The rest of them just want survey done by "Drive By Bill" so they can close a sale. I've never heard of a broker being liable for boat condition.

 

[BruceK]

If the intent of the forum is to stimulate boat related conversation I would say I have been successful. One would think a broker would initiate a pre-listing survey for his own liability and to protect his reputation in the market place. I myself wouldn't want to sell a boat without knowing it's condition nor would I purchase a boat without knowledge of same. Gentlemen and ladies I appreciate the conversations.......it gives all of us something to think about now and in the future.

Now you want to involve the broker if he doesn`t get a survey, it`s looking more "blame game" than "lofty" "do the right thing".
Don`t lose sight it`s caveat emptor, unless there is some US "total disclosure" obligation, including to sleuth out and disclose all possible faults.
I`m seeing the proposed disclosure as revenge. Which is why I suggested considering your motivation. The uninvolved can be objective, whereas that`s difficult if " dragged through the hedge backwards" over this boat.

 

[Flatswing]

The seller is already aware of the deficiencies since u walked and the brokers will have discussed the reason & usually have the summary. No seller is going to buy your survey, but It is not unusual to sell your survey to the next possible buyer for a discount (50% is common). Best way to do this is to let the selling broker know it’s available. No need to expose yourself to any liability by sharing YOUR opinion. Any new buyer should be aware of the previous failed sale post survey and will want to know why. The professional survey contains all the information you need to transmit to a potential buyer. Let it speak for you.

 

[STB]

To the best of my knowledge, boat sellers in the US have no duty to disclose anything. Ditto for brokers. And, they can have and offer opinions different from those of some subset, proper or otherwise, if "experts".

The only thing they can't do is knowingly make false statements beyond simple fluffery.

Every contract and most ads I've seen have said it is they buyer's duty, and they buyer's duty alone, to verify the attributes of interest to them.

Those who have seen my posts on this forum before know that I believe a seller should make full and forthright disclose. And, I believe that buyers should make offers they reasonably expect to follow-through with vs renegotiate after disadvantaging a seller through lost time on market. And, my greatest hope is that hide-the-ball sellers and knock-it-down-later buyers meet each other, and only each other.

But, my feeling is, if you don't like the boat -- don't buy it. If you want to do a nice thing, give your survey away to the seller and seller's broker-- it served your purpose already, anyway. If they are like me, they'll research the issues that were raised and fix or forthrightly disclosed any that are real.

And, if not, that won't be on you. And, eventually, they'll realize that they are fooling no one and disclose to avoid wasting time on failed deals.

 

[RonR]

Grab your lunch box and walk away.

 

[RickyD]

Sometimes a buyer who walked away from a boat will sell his survey (if permitted by the surveyor) to another buyer who subsequently has a contract to purchase the boat. The broker usually "brokers" the deal and the cost is usually half of the original survey price.

But you are what, going to advertise that survey for sale? I wouldn't and the seller may have a cause of action against you for interfering with any potential sales.

David

This describes my experience exactly. After I declined to purchase a boat after an extensive survey at a cost of $1,200 not including the engines, a new potential buyer contacted my broker about buying the survey. I sold it for $600.

 

[markbarendt]

I have sold a survey where more problems were found than I could afford to fix at the price the owner wanted.

The person who bought the survey from me bought that boat.

We all have different tolerances with regard to pricing and fixing boats.

The more I learn about used boats, the more I understand that the wiring on most used boats have significant problems.

 

[mvweebles]

Grab your lunch box and walk away.

Yep. Sounds like OP has some residual vesting in the deal.

Not your circus. Not your monkey. Move on. Nothing to see here.

Peter

 

[boatpoker]

The more I learn about used boats, the more I understand that the wiring on most used boats have significant problems.

About 80% of the recommendations I make on surveys relate to dangerous electrical systems.

 

[kimdabe]

Survery...ownership

The person who orders and pays for the survey owns the survey....you can do what you want with it. Sell it, burn it...what ever!

 

[MYTraveler]

Most states recognize a cause of action for intentional interference with prospective economic advantage. You would be in dangerous territory, IMO, probably not worth the risk. As a practical matter, however, how would you expect to offer the survey to prospective buyers? Certainly neither the seller nor his broker has any self interest, or duty, to make that offer for you.