Survey questions
- Thread starter madaquarist
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
madaquarist
Veteran Member
Wow that took a left turn quickly. No big deal as everyone wants to help. The purpose of my post was to determine some type of baseline for water intrusion and where its beyond what we're ready to except. We have no misconceptions that we will find a boat that is turnkey with no issues. Rebedding anchors that may be the cause of water intrusion, no big deal to us as we expect it. Repairing core issues does have a limit for us, a 2 sqft area probably not an issue, but 10 sqft? Plus the location of the core issue will weight-in as well.
We're in the beginning stages of finding our boat and we want to be able to tell a buyers broker what we are willing to handle and what we are not.
We're in the beginning stages of finding our boat and we want to be able to tell a buyers broker what we are willing to handle and what we are not.
ksanders
Moderator Emeritus
Guys now I’m laughing!
any 45’ boat for $10,000 isn’t a boat, it’s a career waiting for you.
Take this seriously.
The most expensive boat on the market is the one with the cheapest price tag for it’s size and configuration.
any 45’ boat for $10,000 isn’t a boat, it’s a career waiting for you.
Take this seriously.
The most expensive boat on the market is the one with the cheapest price tag for it’s size and configuration.
Good Lord! That was insightful.
I hear you loud and clear, but my brain hears you in Mandarin. Somehow I have always found a way to convince myself that $50,000 now with ten $10,000 projects is cheaper than $100,000 now. If you pay it out over time and spend less up front, well that's the American way. Isn't that why there are car salesmen?
Seriously. I think that the boat I am looking at is unique. I cannot find a single piece of information about it on the net, it is the original owner, and I like the design. I hear the builder is good. What if I get lucky and the cost to repair is less or not even needed at all? Yeah right, what if my aunt had balls? I get it. There is just something about the hunt and the unknown. The what if. I guess that is why we have the lottery. I could be a winner. I also have a better chance of being struck by lightning. It sure is easier to shell out 50 now rather than 100. So I just have to take the noose off of the current owner and place it around my neck. Whats so hard about that? Bill
PS- I am still going to investigate this boat. I can't help myself, plus I should learn quite a bit.
PSS- That 100,000 or 150,000 boat could end up with the same issues, they may not just present themselves now. Steel tanks and stringers can go anytime.
I hear you loud and clear, but my brain hears you in Mandarin. Somehow I have always found a way to convince myself that $50,000 now with ten $10,000 projects is cheaper than $100,000 now. If you pay it out over time and spend less up front, well that's the American way. Isn't that why there are car salesmen?
Seriously. I think that the boat I am looking at is unique. I cannot find a single piece of information about it on the net, it is the original owner, and I like the design. I hear the builder is good. What if I get lucky and the cost to repair is less or not even needed at all? Yeah right, what if my aunt had balls? I get it. There is just something about the hunt and the unknown. The what if. I guess that is why we have the lottery. I could be a winner. I also have a better chance of being struck by lightning. It sure is easier to shell out 50 now rather than 100. So I just have to take the noose off of the current owner and place it around my neck. Whats so hard about that? Bill
PS- I am still going to investigate this boat. I can't help myself, plus I should learn quite a bit.
PSS- That 100,000 or 150,000 boat could end up with the same issues, they may not just present themselves now. Steel tanks and stringers can go anytime.
"The most expensive boat on the market is the one with the cheapest price tag for it’s size and configuration"
A very well put and accurate statement that I have witnessed numerous times.
Bill - There is plenty of information on the boat. It does not have steel tanks and it may or may not be a huge project.
Fact is you still do not know.
- your need many more facts on the boat
- many pictures of everything
- you need to know how it will run in the water
- a full list of what does not work
- a full list of what needs replacing (canvas, carpets, electronics, etc)
You have a lot of work to do to asses this boat , if yo have the time and funds to pursue it great - with the data you have now these posts will not yield valuable information.
Donsan
Guru
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2014
- Messages
- 2,300
- Location
- United States
- Vessel Name
- No Mo Trawla
- Vessel Make
- Hurricane SS188
Comodave
Moderator Emeritus
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2015
- Messages
- 21,287
- Location
- Au Gres, MI
- Vessel Name
- Black Dog
- Vessel Make
- Formula 41PC
Bill,
I looked at the photos... Not really great photos but the boat doesn’t look too bad. I would be really concerned if the fuel tanks are leaking. I wouldn’t buy the spilled fuel explanation, if so why didn’t they clean up the spillage? There are severe fines for pumping fuel overboard.
The boat is inside so when you take it out and it rains, be prepared for a leak-a-palooza. The teak decks, and there are a lot of teak decks, will leak at some point if they aren’t leaking now. They are a huge maintenance issue when they need recaulking. I just spent over 300 hours recaulking and refinishing my teak deck and I just have teak decks on my sundeck not everywhere. The windows may leak when it is outside. Being on a covered slip can hide all sorts of problems. Things show no moisture now but have it outside and see what happens. Recoring decks isn’t too hard technically but it is hard work. I tend to take on almost any boat project and love doing it but wet stringers is one that I will not touch.
I don’t want to discourage you, just help to make you aware of what you are getting into. I do pretty much all my work. Do you like or are you able to do the work yourself or do you hire it out? If you hire it out the costs can be staggering. New fuel tanks can easily top $20K if you hire it out.
Whatever way you go, go in with your eyes wide open. Do you want or need a 46’ boat? If you don’t need one that big maybe something around 40’ would be easier to maintain. Anyway, good luck, have fun looking and keep us informed, we are very nosy...
I looked at the photos... Not really great photos but the boat doesn’t look too bad. I would be really concerned if the fuel tanks are leaking. I wouldn’t buy the spilled fuel explanation, if so why didn’t they clean up the spillage? There are severe fines for pumping fuel overboard.
The boat is inside so when you take it out and it rains, be prepared for a leak-a-palooza. The teak decks, and there are a lot of teak decks, will leak at some point if they aren’t leaking now. They are a huge maintenance issue when they need recaulking. I just spent over 300 hours recaulking and refinishing my teak deck and I just have teak decks on my sundeck not everywhere. The windows may leak when it is outside. Being on a covered slip can hide all sorts of problems. Things show no moisture now but have it outside and see what happens. Recoring decks isn’t too hard technically but it is hard work. I tend to take on almost any boat project and love doing it but wet stringers is one that I will not touch.
I don’t want to discourage you, just help to make you aware of what you are getting into. I do pretty much all my work. Do you like or are you able to do the work yourself or do you hire it out? If you hire it out the costs can be staggering. New fuel tanks can easily top $20K if you hire it out.
Whatever way you go, go in with your eyes wide open. Do you want or need a 46’ boat? If you don’t need one that big maybe something around 40’ would be easier to maintain. Anyway, good luck, have fun looking and keep us informed, we are very nosy...
Comodave- Thank you!
I appreciate you taking the time to look. All good points. If you don't mind I might just PM you the finer strokes on this one if I get far enough into it that I think there is a possibility I could pull the trigger. As for size, the only big downside I can see is the linear cost increase for the Sq/Ft charges for storage, bottom work, and summer well. As long as I can see well enough to dock it, I really need as big a boat as I can afford I think. My arthritis is eating me alive and I am 6'3" 250. I don't want to feel like I am living in a cave. The engine room in this 46 is not as big as I thought it would be, but with the saloon doors open the access is pretty good. I think you hit it head on- stringers AND tanks= holy cow money and time and heartburn. Your comment on pulling it out from under cover is one of the first things I thought of. I know the stringers are an issue, and I think the tanks likely are. I will attempt to confirm and likely will have more questions. Thanks for helping.
Bill
I appreciate you taking the time to look. All good points. If you don't mind I might just PM you the finer strokes on this one if I get far enough into it that I think there is a possibility I could pull the trigger. As for size, the only big downside I can see is the linear cost increase for the Sq/Ft charges for storage, bottom work, and summer well. As long as I can see well enough to dock it, I really need as big a boat as I can afford I think. My arthritis is eating me alive and I am 6'3" 250. I don't want to feel like I am living in a cave. The engine room in this 46 is not as big as I thought it would be, but with the saloon doors open the access is pretty good. I think you hit it head on- stringers AND tanks= holy cow money and time and heartburn. Your comment on pulling it out from under cover is one of the first things I thought of. I know the stringers are an issue, and I think the tanks likely are. I will attempt to confirm and likely will have more questions. Thanks for helping.
Bill
In general I really liked the boat. . . Do I want to pay and put up with the hassle and know what I have, or pay more and purchase without the issues? This season is almost over. Could I find a yard that would do it right and for a fair price? Maybe more questions than I want to work to find the answers to. I am guessing the owner might not like my offer too much either.. Bill
I know you already love this boat, but there are plenty of similar ones on the market, & prices have been reduced on several. Why not pay less & get one without all that work?
tjequipment
Newbie
If it’s a cored hull boat I would run
timb7734
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 8, 2012
- Messages
- 197
- Location
- USA
- Vessel Name
- Terrapin
- Vessel Make
- Florida Bay Coaster 42'
At cored decks
No personal experience with this problem, however last winter while docked in FtMyers, a thirty something old Chris Craft next to us lost a sale due to wet deck cores. The owner found some special material on line for which the solution was to drill holes and inject the compound into the deck. This material displaced the water and after a bit of sanding and painting the vessel passed the next survey with flying colors and went on to a new owner. Some research on this subject may be very satisfying, as the skills for the repair as a do it yourself project were not demanding.
No personal experience with this problem, however last winter while docked in FtMyers, a thirty something old Chris Craft next to us lost a sale due to wet deck cores. The owner found some special material on line for which the solution was to drill holes and inject the compound into the deck. This material displaced the water and after a bit of sanding and painting the vessel passed the next survey with flying colors and went on to a new owner. Some research on this subject may be very satisfying, as the skills for the repair as a do it yourself project were not demanding.
FF
Guru
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2007
- Messages
- 22,552
"The owner found some special material on line for which the solution was to drill holes and inject the compound into the deck"
Git Rot? Or a knock off?
https://www.jamestowndistributors.c...MI88S0_4Hz4wIVSj0MCh0TngplEAQYAiABEgJU5_D_BwE
Git Rot? Or a knock off?
https://www.jamestowndistributors.c...MI88S0_4Hz4wIVSj0MCh0TngplEAQYAiABEgJU5_D_BwE
Last edited:
OldDan1943
Guru
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2017
- Messages
- 10,595
- Location
- USA
- Vessel Name
- Kinja
- Vessel Make
- American Tug 34 #116 2008
I read most of your comments and discovered, you kept adding more and more.
I have read the recommendations.
IMO, walk away.
You will spend LOTS of time and money working on the boat when you should be cruising.
There will always be another boat. The next one, even better.
I have read the recommendations.
IMO, walk away.
You will spend LOTS of time and money working on the boat when you should be cruising.
There will always be another boat. The next one, even better.
I am moving on
I was trying to stay on board with the discovery process and was planning to go learn more when I was told that a "fiberglass guy" looked at the stringers and said they are "fine". Oh....ok. What about the moisture? "He said percussive tests were ok" and " later on he can pull a few boards out and rebuild the stringers for not much money". Oh....ok. Who am I to argue. I am not a professional.
The diesel fouling the boat because a filter change got messy? Leaving it in the bilge? Many gallons? Who am I to argue this. I am not a professional.
Someone will step up and make this boat amazing. It was a lovely boat. Perhaps my fears are unfounded, but why be fearful at all? Time will provide other opportunities that will hopefully offer less concerns. Less being the operative word here. None is for the delusional. Thank you for the good advice offered here on Trawler Forum. Bill
I was trying to stay on board with the discovery process and was planning to go learn more when I was told that a "fiberglass guy" looked at the stringers and said they are "fine". Oh....ok. What about the moisture? "He said percussive tests were ok" and " later on he can pull a few boards out and rebuild the stringers for not much money". Oh....ok. Who am I to argue. I am not a professional.
The diesel fouling the boat because a filter change got messy? Leaving it in the bilge? Many gallons? Who am I to argue this. I am not a professional.
Someone will step up and make this boat amazing. It was a lovely boat. Perhaps my fears are unfounded, but why be fearful at all? Time will provide other opportunities that will hopefully offer less concerns. Less being the operative word here. None is for the delusional. Thank you for the good advice offered here on Trawler Forum. Bill
timb7734
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 8, 2012
- Messages
- 197
- Location
- USA
- Vessel Name
- Terrapin
- Vessel Make
- Florida Bay Coaster 42'
Diesel smell
As far as diesel smell goes ...... simple Green makes a deodorizer and a degreaser (two products) that will remove all traces of diesel contamination. I know this because I had the misfortune to have had diesel pumped into my water tanks. Drained them, degreased, then deodorize, no remaining evidence of contamination.
As far as diesel smell goes ...... simple Green makes a deodorizer and a degreaser (two products) that will remove all traces of diesel contamination. I know this because I had the misfortune to have had diesel pumped into my water tanks. Drained them, degreased, then deodorize, no remaining evidence of contamination.
To the OP as I'm ignoring for the moment the other thread inserted in this one. Might go back to it.
This boat for $10k or $12k or anything like it tells you the seller has decided it's pretty near junk. Otherwise it would be selling for far more. You're not interested in it at this time anyway. If it's available 9 months from now, it will only tell you many others think poorly of it. If you wanted it, I'd say get a survey and get quotes from yards for all work. Have a cardiologist handy for when you receive them.
I have not ever seen a Bayliner Cruiser in the condition described. Core damage and stringer damage would be extremely rare and lead me to believe there's far more to the story than you've gathered. Freezing water, hurricane sinking, ice and snow, collision or allision. I don't know what but it got that way somehow and even just normal neglect doesn't do that.
This boat for $10k or $12k or anything like it tells you the seller has decided it's pretty near junk. Otherwise it would be selling for far more. You're not interested in it at this time anyway. If it's available 9 months from now, it will only tell you many others think poorly of it. If you wanted it, I'd say get a survey and get quotes from yards for all work. Have a cardiologist handy for when you receive them.
I have not ever seen a Bayliner Cruiser in the condition described. Core damage and stringer damage would be extremely rare and lead me to believe there's far more to the story than you've gathered. Freezing water, hurricane sinking, ice and snow, collision or allision. I don't know what but it got that way somehow and even just normal neglect doesn't do that.
FF
Guru
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2007
- Messages
- 22,552
"Sure sounds like the stuff! Apparently several users had trouble with it hardening, but that could be a mixing or expired product issue."
Harding is always the issue. These products are simply epoxy resin with alcohol added . The alcohol "chases" the water bringing the epoxy resin with it.
This spreads out the epoxy so added hardener is required .
Too much and it goes off before the mix has soaked the wood , too little it never cures well.
When we did repairs the drill was to use about 10% more hardener than normal, and install it in the cool part of the day.
IF it didn't get hard enough a series of small holes was added and hardener injected.
The hardener and epoxy blush are a real hazard so the area must be scrubbed well (Dawn or Joy) . Wear gloves till well scrubbed!
Harding is always the issue. These products are simply epoxy resin with alcohol added . The alcohol "chases" the water bringing the epoxy resin with it.
This spreads out the epoxy so added hardener is required .
Too much and it goes off before the mix has soaked the wood , too little it never cures well.
When we did repairs the drill was to use about 10% more hardener than normal, and install it in the cool part of the day.
IF it didn't get hard enough a series of small holes was added and hardener injected.
The hardener and epoxy blush are a real hazard so the area must be scrubbed well (Dawn or Joy) . Wear gloves till well scrubbed!
madaquarist
Veteran Member
Thanks BandB. The asking price is about 12k under what the survey stated as a market value. I can only assume they figured the 12k drop was to cover to repair cost? What really scares me is that this boat is located on the great lakes so the unknown number of freeze thaw cycles and what extra damage it has caused to the core and stringers.
Flatswing
Guru
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2016
- Messages
- 579
- Location
- United States
- Vessel Name
- River Girl
- Vessel Make
- 2004 DeFever 49 RPH
Ok, this thread is really confusing after moparnam jumped in with a Ka Shing afflicted with a terminal disease.
Returning to the Bayliner you described: Consider that the survey was done by & for the seller, so don't be guided by that market value or any mythical discounts from same. The real market value to you is what similar boats are selling for, -less the cost of professionally bringing the Bayliner you are considering to that average market condition. Consider hiring a reputable marine yard manager for a couple of hours to give you an estimate on the repairs you know about. 'couple of hundred bucks might make a huge difference in your life enjoyment going forward.
btw freeze/thaw cycles could work in your favor because wet areas/rotten core will usually delaminate the core from the inner/outer skins making identification/confirmation easier to pick up with the phenolic hammer.
Being under what the surveyor said is market value means nothing other than helping perhaps with insurance. Markets determine value, not surveyors. Determining a reasonable value for a boat is very difficult because generally there are so few that are identical in all respects.
Similar threads
