Stranded

[CharlieO.]

I'd raise the sail.

I actually did stumble across a sailboat today that has been converted to an electric drive motor. Claimed to get 2 hrs on battery power. Seemed like a reasonable set-up.

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by DDW

I'd get on YouTube and build one of the free electricity motor-generator thingies. There are hundreds of designs. Usually some variation of a motor turning an alternator which is feeding the motor. This will recharge your batteries quickly, no fuel required. In fact, really no need for batteries at all.

References please. The Law of Conservation of Energy would beg to differ with any claims of a true perpetual energy machine.

Since the law of conservation of energy proves that energy can neither be created or destroyed, and friction be a parasite on energy, the amount of energy created by the alternator can never be equal too or greater than the amount of energy required to spin the alternator.

[CharlieO.]

Originally Posted by Shrew

References please. The Law of Conservation of Energy would beg to differ with any claims of a true perpetual energy machine.

Since the law of conservation of energy proves that energy can neither be created or destroyed, and friction be a parasite on energy, the amount of energy created by the alternator can never be equal too or greater than the amount of energy required to spin the alternator.

If it's on YouTube it's gotta be true.

[HTurner]

Is the beer still iced? Is grill still working? Wife ashore? Tomorrow is another day...

[Northern Spy]

TF needs a sarcasm emoji

[KnotYet]

Originally Posted by Slowmo

Ha Ha, but as a former electric vehicle owner, not without some element of truth.

However a very real 'mayday' risk is fire in the Li-ion batteries. The electrolyte is highly flammable and exceedingly difficult to extinguish. Also fumes are extremely toxic limiting rescue efforts.

As has been noted in many previous threads, the Li batteries used in typical
boat installations are not the same design or chemistry as those used in cars
and don't share the same risks.

[Bob Cofer]

Originally Posted by Slowmo

Ha Ha, but as a former electric vehicle owner, not without some element of truth.



However a very real 'mayday' risk is fire in the Li-ion batteries. The electrolyte is highly flammable and exceedingly difficult to extinguish. Also fumes are extremely toxic limiting rescue efforts.

LiPo4 batteries are a completely different chemistry than Li batteries used in other applications. You could almost say that a shorted and dry Lead Acid battery is more dangerous.

[SteveK]

Originally Posted by Northern Spy

TF needs a sarcasm emoji

🙃 Upside-Down Face
Emoji Meaning
A classic smiley, turned upside down. Implemented as a flipped version of 🙂 Slightly Smiling Face on most platforms.

Commonly used to convey irony, sarcasm, joking, or a sense of goofiness or silliness.
🙃

[RT Firefly]

Re: Post #25 ???

[AlaskaProf]

Originally Posted by RT Firefly

Greetings,
...similar to the use of EV's in cities. We're NOT at the stage (yet) of electric taking over for long haul usage although I'm confident that it will come.

For cars, there is a tipping point nearer than is commonly thought. (I think). We have owned or leased three electric Smarts for around-town use over the last ten years and just replaced our "long range" Honda Accord with a plug-in Prius. Not "virtue signalling" here, on my block there are two Teslas, an e-Volvo and one of those ugly little BMWs . All recent acquisitions.

The guy across the street has been driving a Nissan Leaf for years and is enamored of my plug-in Prius, but can't find one with less than a year lead.and our Chevy dealer can't keep a Bolt for his showroom. I think the shift is on.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Benthic2

They are already here!

Interesting. Towards the end he gives range information. At 8 kts, it's consuming 60kw/hr. At 10kts, 100kw/hr. LFP battery bank is 210kw, so max range under battery is around 20-ish nms.

On a bright sunny day, boat is net-zero at 4-5 kts meaning solar replenishes usage.

Or you can run the generator for charging and a stated range of 650 nms.

The boat has 42 solar panels, though size is not discussed. From past experience, I'd guess 10-15 of those panels are needed to power creature comforts such as AC and refrigeration.

While I applaud efforts such as the Silent 60 to explore energy alternatives, it's a bauble and not very practical except for harbor cruises. An oversized Duffy.

Peter

[Art]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Interesting. Towards the end he gives range information. At 8 kts, it's consuming 60kw/hr. At 10kts, 100kw/hr. LFP battery bank is 210kw, so max range under battery is around 20-ish nms.

On a bright sunny day, boat is net-zero at 4-5 kts meaning solar replenishes usage.

Or you can run the generator for charging and a stated range of 650 nms.

The boat has 42 solar panels, though size is not discussed. From past experience, I'd guess 10-15 of those panels are needed to power creature comforts such as AC and refrigeration.

While I applaud efforts such as the Silent 60 to explore energy alternatives, it's a bauble and not very practical except for harbor cruises. An oversized Duffy.

Peter

Thanks Peter - Now I don't need to spend time to find out what you so well placed on a post. And, yes... Oversized Duffy. Also, I often wonder, with all those solar panels on boats - what the heck happens to them panels in really rough seas??

EDIT: After posting I watched entire video. Not too bad for electric power boat! Future begins each morning!

[Pete Meisinger]

My Son In Law has an all electric Porsche. He loves it. He lives in L.A. and has a two hour commute, sometimes less since he can use the HOV lane. He charges it at his home overnight, always ready to go. A range of 300 or 400 miles, I guess.

He recently drove from California to Wisconsin, He rented a car for the trip. I asked why he didn't bring the Porsche. He looked at me like I was nuts and said "No Way", couldn't keep it charged.

Like I stated, he loves it. I wouldn't own it.

pete

[AlaskaProf]

Originally Posted by Pete Meisinger

My Son In Law has an all electric Porsche. He loves it. He lives in L.A. and has a two hour commute, sometimes less since he can use the HOV lane. He charges it at his home overnight, always ready to go. A range of 300 or 400 miles, I guess.

He recently drove from California to Wisconsin, He rented a car for the trip. I asked why he didn't bring the Porsche. He looked at me like I was nuts and said "No Way", couldn't keep it charged.

Like I stated, he loves it. I wouldn't own it.

pete

I think that's an issue caused by the paucity of chargers across the " interior". My niece, a Caltrans engineer, thinks nothing of driving her Tesla anywhere on the west coast. Gets an 80% charge in the length of a lunch stop.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Art

Thanks Peter - Now I don't need to spend time to find out what you so well placed on a post. And, yes... Oversized Duffy. Also, I often wonder, with all those solar panels on boats - what the heck happens to them panels in really rough seas??

EDIT: After posting I watched entire video. Not too bad for electric power boat! Future begins each morning!

At 100kw/hr, figuring some inefficiency and making the math easy, probably around $20/hr of grid electricity. Or around 4-gals of diesel for 10-kts. My friends 52-ft power cat burns around 8 gph at 10 kts.

The Silent 60 apparently has a generator sized to power the two 150kw electric motors which can push the boat to 17kts (similar speed as my friends PC52 Horizon). The generator must be massive - over 200kw, which means it's grossly oversized for house loads and charging - at 20% charge rate, the battery bank should have a 40kw-50kw charger.

At a much grander scale, this is the same problem Willard grappled with when they installed 5hp 3-phase electric get-home motors in their 1970s-1980s vintage W40s. The required generator was just too big, bulky, and expensive for ordinary usage.

I'm sure technology will solve many of these issues and i eagerky await advances. But you can't outrun raw physics. And the wild marketing claims don't help.

Peter

[Moonfish]

I don’t know why y’all are so enamored with technology. These new fangled “ow-toe-mobiles” are ridiculous! I certainly won’t ever need one in my lifetime. After all, I have a perfectly good set of horses and a proper buggy. And they won’t run out of, what is it? Gasoline?! No sir, I’ll stick with my good old fashioned horse if I need to get about…

[guy with a boat]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

While I applaud efforts such as the Silent 60 to explore energy alternatives, it's a bauble and not very practical except for harbor cruises. An oversized Duffy.

Peter

This is no expedition yacht but I think dismissing it entirely is overstating the weaknesses. If you get 24 miles at 8kts on batteries alone, combining that with the available power from solar might get you 35-40miles, which is probably about average daily travel for a cruising boat that is not relocating. You always have the option to slow down or start the gen if you have a longer run.

Lithiums can be charged around .5C and you could run the gen the last hour of a longer run, leaving you at an anchorage fully charged with no gen needed overnight. A shorter run wouldn’t require the gen. It would take some adjustments in approach but it is closer to a useable boat than many previous versions.

Put that boat in the BVI/USVI where there is lots of sunshine and short runs and you might never run the gen. Not crazy at all.

[SteveK]

Originally Posted by Moonfish

I don’t know why y’all are so enamored with technology. These new fangled “ow-toe-mobiles” are ridiculous! I certainly won’t ever need one in my lifetime. After all, I have a perfectly good set of horses and a proper buggy. And they won’t run out of, what is it? Gasoline?! No sir, I’ll stick with my good old fashioned horse if I need to get about…

Oh come on now. It is a Fad, either get on board or get out of the way.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by guy with a boat

This is no expedition yacht but I think dismissing it entirely is overstating the weaknesses. If you get 24 miles at 8kts on batteries alone, combining that with the available power from solar might get you 35-40miles, which is probably about average daily travel for a cruising boat that is not relocating. You always have the option to slow down or start the gen if you have a longer run.

Lithiums can be charged around .5C and you could run the gen the last hour of a longer run, leaving you at an anchorage fully charged with no gen needed overnight. A shorter run wouldn’t require the gen. It would take some adjustments in approach but it is closer to a useable boat than many previous versions.

Put that boat in the BVI/USVI where there is lots of sunshine and short runs and you might never run the gen. Not crazy at all.

You make some good points and I'll temper my criticism a bit. But only a bit - I figure there is a lot of salemanship going on here. When you crunch the numbers, solar for propulsion is a gimmick: this is essentially a diesel-electric setup which is nothing new.

Here is a Yachtworld listing for the boat that gives a LOT more specs on machinery, capacity, etc (smaller version is $3.2m USD). They have three versions - the one in the video is the middle one with 145kw generator and 1000 liters diesel.

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/202...nt-60-7318314/

The listing states solar generation at 17kw/hr (works out to 400-watts/panel, which is about right). If you convert watts to Btus, then to diesel, you get an equivency of around 2-gallons of diesel. But let's say diesel engines only produce 33% efficiency - so the full day of sunshine produces equivilent of [maybe] 6-gallons of diesel. That's it

So when you dig into the cost of batteries, solar, controls, chargers, etc. It's a helluva lot of effort/expense to generate equivilent of 6-gals of diesel per day. So the target customer has to be wealthy and either (a) incredibly altruistic; or (b) doesn't know how to use a calculator. Mind you Jimmy Cornell tried this a couple years ago on a sail-cat and it too folded under the weight of reality.

That said, I do believe efforts like these are the beginning, not the end. I hope it leads to something sustainable.

Peter

[Pete Meisinger]

I was visiting with my son who lives in Duluth. I said I bet we will never see a new electric vehicle in Northern Wisconsin and especially never in Duluth with it's cold weather and steep hills.

He said there are new Teslas are all over the place up there.

Go Figure.

pete