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Old 06-02-2018, 10:35 AM   #21
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Another beginner mistake is overreacting or applying the wrong correction.

Momentum csn be a valuable tool.

Some boats like mine (single, no thrusters, big rudder) ..... when backing and approaching a knot or two.....will start to answer helm almost as much as prop walk.

When trying to back the opposite of prop walk, taking it out of gear and waiting for the boat to answer the helm may be the better solution. But so often people suggest more power which can induce more prop walk, when momentum with just rudder can work great.

Because this can be very boat specific, several methods need to be explored, not just the advice of someone who may be great with their boat, but not experienced with many.

Excellent advice. Try backing when away from your slip and see if you can get some steering in neural if you have some speed. Some boats with large rudders can be steered very well at speed in reverse. Once you gain control in neutral sometimes you can go into reverse at low rpm to maintain speed. Too much rpm will overcome steering though.
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Old 06-02-2018, 10:38 AM   #22
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Lots and lots of good advice on here from skippers.
The way I teach (mostly wives as husband and wife instruction usually ends up with hot tongue, cold shoulder and withdrawal of conjugal rights for a month).

I start by carrying out the manoeuvre myself slowly with a commentary, then I let the pupil do it 3 times under my commands, I then let the pupil do it twice giving me a running commentary.
One more time solo and 99 times out of a hundred they're perfect.

Sometimes it the instruction is wasted when the husband starts to interfere when the lady is carrying out the manoeuvre, words become heated, the pupil tells him to put his boat where the sun don't shine and its back to cold shoulder etc.


Ladies actually make very good skippers because they have no 'Macho' image to uphold and no preconceptions.
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Old 06-02-2018, 11:11 AM   #23
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One important aspect of using a bow thruster is to know your boats pivot point. I would test this outside of your fairway. When you apply thruster on the bow keep in mind it is not only swinging your bow but your stern in the opposite direction. When you determine the pivot point of your boats rotation you’ll have a much more accurate sense of when and how much thruster to apply.
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Old 06-02-2018, 11:17 AM   #24
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Quote:
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One important aspect of using a bow thruster is to know your boats pivot point. I would test this outside of your fairway. When you apply thruster on the bow keep in mind it is not only swinging your bow but your stern in the opposite direction. When you determine the pivot point of your boats rotation you’ll have a much more accurate sense of when and how much thruster to apply.
https://youtu.be/NmIj7C1PGRM

Good example of backing out with no bow thruster.

Dan mine is 38.but I can't afford a thuster
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Old 06-02-2018, 11:20 AM   #25
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Tamrow didn't mean to quote you.using phone
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Old 06-02-2018, 11:23 AM   #26
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I really like psneed’s comments above. I think his suggestion to simply dock bow in is a very good one. Of course, there may be important reasons why you can’t, but you would find that it would be a lot easier to go bow in. Then when leaving, back out to starboard and back out the full length of the fairway.
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Old 06-02-2018, 01:22 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timb View Post
https://youtu.be/NmIj7C1PGRM

Good example of backing out with no bow thruster.

Dan mine is 38.but I can't afford a thuster
Tim, I understand. My AT came with a bow thruster and stern thruster.
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Old 06-02-2018, 01:44 PM   #28
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Much good advice above, but the one suggestion I don't see is to change slips. I'm not saying it's time, but if one has a slip that they really struggle with due to location and configuration and boat characteristics, then don't fight it indefinitely. It will lead you to not boating to avoid facing it. At some point, it's time to say you want a different slip.
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Old 06-02-2018, 01:58 PM   #29
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Much good advice above, but the one suggestion I don't see is to change slips. I'm not saying it's time, but if one has a slip that they really struggle with due to location and configuration and boat characteristics, then don't fight it indefinitely. It will lead you to not boating to avoid facing it. At some point, it's time to say you want a different slip.

I am buying a smaller slip for 3 reasons.
1. My AT34 rattles around the 75ft slip I currently own
2. It is 40 slips closer to the gate and when the golf cart service is not running, it is a long walk, both ways.
Finally #4, when I sell this slip, I can pay for the smaller slip completely and and pay taxes on the excess amount. I am soooo friggin lucky, I get to pay taxes.
Oh joy, oh joy.
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Old 06-02-2018, 06:25 PM   #30
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SoH,

I feel your pain!

I am only now starting to feel somewhat comfortable maneuvering into our own very tight slip.

Some ideas that really helped us:

-Read the Camano Owners manual under boat handling... (page 11 I think) It has some great information in a very simple, easy to understand format.

-if I understand, you are doing a port side tie, when you back into your slip. Our boats are (again from the manual and experience) best suited to a starboard tie (especially from the lower helm). You may either want to go in forwards or see if another slip is available..though you may have your reasons for the port side tie and reversing in


-“Chapman’s Piloting and Seamanship” has some great info on boat handling - a great resource which I stumbled into when it was gifted to me

- I found sidling up to a wide open lateral dock and practicing moving the boat sideways was really useful in terms of learning the handling characteristics of the Troll. As others say ...practice is key.

Good luck! Your posts on your Troll are always interesting...
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Old 06-02-2018, 06:33 PM   #31
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If it were me I would normally go bow in because of my dinghy on davits. But that might be a bear to get back out. Stern in, I would come in slowly just like I was going to dock head first in Slip#11, then reverse easy. The stern will walk right into slip 23. How far out of the slip does the boat in Slip 11 stick out? Is there at least a full boat length of room to turn around?
The question is where the rudder needs to be for your boat. I would try first leaving the rudder to port through the whole maneuver and see how that works out.
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Old 06-02-2018, 09:06 PM   #32
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Change slip or get a right hand prop
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Old 06-02-2018, 09:42 PM   #33
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What is after your dock - a sea wall or turning basin?
Menzies: If you watch my Youtube video in my signature then you'll get a better idea of my dock layout.

It's not a seawall but it's the main boardwalk to get to my section of the marina.
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Old 06-03-2018, 06:14 AM   #34
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While the advice to change slips could be the ultimate answer to keeping sane....

Boathandling into almost anywhere should be a primary goal for most of us.

One big part of boathandling is knowing what your boat likes and doesnt.

The armchair captain in me guesses your boat would prefer to pull into the slip. Singles often prefer a way to turn in forward and reverse. Your diagram and boat suggests to me pulling in is perfect as your boat naturally wants to make right hand turns in forward and back to the left in reverse. With a thruster, gives you that much more control.

If pulling in is out of the question, then changing slips is a real consideration so that you arent fighting your boat into the slip.

Changing props only works if you change the direction of your tranny or engine..... sorry but have to point that out to those that might be confused.
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Old 06-03-2018, 06:18 AM   #35
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Quote:
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Prop wash in reverse is to starboard.
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Yea, a LH prop tends to kick the stern to stbd in reverse.

I asked just to confirm I understood; I've not ever had a single with LH prop, so wanted to be sure I was on track before commenting...

If you must dock stern-to, I'd think it'd be easier to dock that boat on the starboard side of your fairway (as you are) and in a "starboard" (after you've begun your 90° turn to port) side of one of those double cribs. IOW, ending up with a starboard-side tie-up. For example, slip #24, #22, etc.

If you're tied to that slip, I think I'd consider docking bow-to, if the finger is long enough to get on and off the boat and if your power cord will reach. And/or start using a spring line from the outward end of the finger to a mid-ship cleat to control drift toward your crib neighbor; that'd likely need a crew to constantly adjust spring length and tension as you go astern...

OTOH, your bow thruster is a big plus...

Practice can help, of course. I watched the Fleming dealer yesterday giving docking lessons to one of their new buyers. Looked like either a 58 or a more likely a 65. The buyer lady docked that rascal about 15 times in a row... as they are usually made to do, during several similar sessions as they prep their new owners...

But that Fleming is probably much easier to dock than yours. Or ours, for that matter.

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Old 06-03-2018, 07:26 AM   #36
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After looking at your video, I would amend my comments by nosing into slip 12 then reverse will pull the stern right into slip 23. The left hand prop is exactly what you need for stern in on that side of the dock.
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Old 06-03-2018, 07:59 AM   #37
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Yeah, I definitely don't wanna change slips. I like my slip a lot. I'm looking at it as a challenge and a learning experience.

Psneeld: As to your post 34; It doesn't back left in reverse. The propwash is to starboard. That's a lot of what my problem is , since I have a stern in port side tie up.
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Old 06-03-2018, 09:05 AM   #38
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Sorry, was thinking left out of the slip if backing out....still knew starboard propWALK.

If you pulled in, the starboard propwalk would help coming alongside. Another plus for pulling in.
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Old 06-03-2018, 09:22 AM   #39
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My RH prop makes my home dock port side tie a breeze. Get next to bulkhead, hit reverse and it snugs right in.

But many other ties I prefer stbd side to as my gennie exhaust is on port side. Or for other reasons. My port side rev walk is not convenient there, but it is no big deal. I come in and then put rudder to like 30deg to port and then do a couple back and fills (alternate fwd and rev thrust) and if needed give a "bark" of throttle in each. Each fwd hit kicks stern to stbd way more than the prop walk to port in rev. Net effect is good motion to stbd. Get the bow right with the thruster. Only time I have trouble is if wind and current are fighting me and am single handed.
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Old 06-03-2018, 09:38 AM   #40
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In your backing in, Port tie, Stb Walk situation, don't be bashful about your neighbour. If your fenders are adequate (if not, get some that are) use the neighbour's boat as a big spacer, and when that slip is empty, his dock. Then you can toss a pair of longer lines across to your own dock and pull your boat over. That technique is for when all else has failed, of course.
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