Steel Trawlers - Pros and Cons

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David Ess said:
Not sure if I believe that, the Cape Horn boats were designed to be self righting withinin seconds. I think the have 5 or more watertight compartments.
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Hull # 1 did actually have a rollover, well, it was more like a knockdown. Eden Bound was in Phukett during the tsunami of 2004. The owner was eating breakfast and all of a sudden the boat rolled 90 degrees, salon windows under water, and then self-righted. It was the only boat in the marina to survive.
 
David Ess said:
What are the protubances at the bottom of the hull here? I couldnt download any better, or real photos, but they look like square strips from stem to stern, about 2 or more inches thick. I noticed them on the dutch Damen tugs, and there are some pics of them on their website.
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Those are steel channels welded to the hull for cooling. Keel coolers. More effective than split round pipe.
 
The word "stabilizers" is a real misnomer. Hydraulic fins, rolling chocks, paravanes, flume tanks, etc., these are all means of roll reduction. They have absolutely no relation to the stability of the vessel, its angle of vanishing stability, capsize angle. The number of watertight bulkheads also has no relation either.
 
Mako said:
Those are steel channels welded to the hull for cooling. Keel coolers. More effective than split round pipe.
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Thank you, thought it might be. What about if they skim across coral or rock? Doesnt it tear them off?
 
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Mako said:
The word "stabilizers" is a real misnomer. Hydraulic fins, rolling chocks, paravanes, flume tanks, etc., these are all means of roll reduction. They have absolutely no relation to the stability of the vessel, its angle of vanishing stability, capsize angle. The number of watertight bulkheads also has no relation either.
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Thanks. What do you think about Seakeeper style gyro stabilizers, say for a 60' trawler, as compared to the others, discounting cost, power usage.?
 
boatpoker said:
I was there.
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Do you agree with what Mako said about it? "Hull # 1 did actually have a rollover, well, it was more like a knockdown. Eden Bound was in Phukett during the tsunami of 2004. The owner was eating breakfast and all of a sudden the boat rolled 90 degrees, salon windows under water, and then self-righted. It was the only boat in the marina to survive."
 
David Ess said:
Thanks. What do you think about Seakeeper style gyro stabilizers, say for a 60' trawler, as compared to the others, discounting cost, power usage.?
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Gyros seem like a great idea. When underway you can use a shaft driven cruising generator to power them, or an inverter from a large frame alternator. When fully spun up there power draw isn't so great, so it's even possible to run them overnight at anchor off a big lithium bank.

I've never had them in any boat I've owned, but after all my research and speaking to owners, it seems that they would be more effective on lighter vessels. One Nordy 62 had two installed and basically said they did little for his vessel and were a waste of big-six-figures.

I was more impressed by the Italian "QuickItaly" models. But to be effective on a big, heavy boat (that I'm shopping for) they wound up being way too expensive for me.
 
David Ess said:
Do you agree with what Mako said about it? "Hull # 1 did actually have a rollover, well, it was more like a knockdown.
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Not sure what I said about it, except that the number of W/T bulkheads has nothing to do with stability. The Cape Horns are very capable bluewater cruisers. I would absolutely believe they were designed with an AVS of 90 degrees or more. If they had zero bulkheads or 12 of them, it would have made no difference to being self-righting to 90 degrees by design.

There are however, other factors of safety which influence whether a vessel might sink or not. Examples like protection against downloading. Strong windows which don't break. Keeping watertight entries closed during bad weather "batten down the hatches". If downloading occurs, then all those W/T bulkheads come into play.

I've been in conditions where we regularly rolled about 45 degrees. Rather scary stuff. Can't imagine what it would have felt like in the situation Boatpoker describes, or what damage was done by items flying around.
 
Mako said:
Gyros seem like a great idea. When underway you can use a shaft driven cruising generator to power them, or an inverter from a large frame alternator. When fully spun up there power draw isn't so great, so it's even possible to run them overnight at anchor off a big lithium bank.

I've never had them in any boat I've owned, but after all my research and speaking to owners, it seems that they would be more effective on lighter vessels. One Nordy 62 had two installed and basically said they did little for his vessel and were a waste of big-six-figures.

I was more impressed by the Italian "QuickItaly" models. But to be effective on a big, heavy boat (that I'm shopping for) they wound up being way too expensive for me.
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All that corroborates my research too. Except for the claims that they are of various sizes/capacities, thus work, and also multiple units. I havnt seen too much in the way of reports though for larger boats...mostly for smaller ones, where they seem really good.
 
Mako said:
Not sure what I said about it, except that the number of W/T bulkheads has nothing to do with stability. The Cape Horns are very capable bluewater cruisers. I would absolutely believe they were designed with an AVS of 90 degrees or more. If they had zero bulkheads or 12 of them, it would have made no difference to being self-righting to 90 degrees by design.

There are however, other factors of safety which influence whether a vessel might sink or not. Examples like protection against downloading. Strong windows which don't break. Keeping watertight entries closed during bad weather "batten down the hatches". If downloading occurs, then all those W/T bulkheads come into play.

I've been in conditions where we regularly rolled about 45 degrees. Rather scary stuff. Can't imagine what it would have felt like in the situation Boatpoker describes, or what damage was done by items flying around.
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Yes, and I think they have half inch thick safety glass. I think i readof some having speacial 1" glass, that is supposedly stronger than the friggin walls theyre in.
 
Gyros: I haven't accumulated enough experience with them to comment in full, but I am not a fan from my experiences so far. I am looking to be convinced otherwise. Here's my experience so far:

I was sea trialling a boat with them and the generator failed. Like that's not inconvenient enough, it caused a loss of functioning gyros and subsequently stability. Additionally, the gyros have spoolup time. A shame to be in a quiet anchorage and have to run your generator for an hour before you can weigh anchor. I have met with Seakeeper on maybe 4 or 5 different vessels to get a price and assess feasibility for a retrofit. None of the owners pursued it further after getting the report of the price or the difficult of installation or both.
 
Judy at JWY said:
Gyros: I haven't accumulated enough experience with them to comment in full, but I am not a fan from my experiences so far. I am looking to be convinced otherwise. Here's my experience so far:

I was sea trialling a boat with them and the generator failed. Like that's not inconvenient enough, it caused a loss of functioning gyros and subsequently stability. Additionally, the gyros have spoolup time. A shame to be in a quiet anchorage and have to run your generator for an hour before you can weigh anchor. I have met with Seakeeper on maybe 4 or 5 different vessels to get a price and assess feasibility for a retrofit. None of the owners pursued it further after getting the report of the price or the difficult of installation or both.
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Jibes what ive read, and I guess theyre better if put in when new, thus the boat can be properly reinforced tontake the tremendous pressures.
 
This one must surely be a good sturdy one for long range passagemaking, and I finally figured out how to post a foto of it. Only 59' long, but 28'wide! And 9000 gallons of fuel!
 

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Most steel hulls are unique,fuel tanks below waterline,closed system cooling,real outriggers and birds,dry stack more common,rugged,safe,weld anything anywhere,abrasion resistance,hit bottom or floating debris most likey you'll be ok,just gotta keep up.with paint,not really a big deal
 
David Ess said:
This one must surely be a good sturdy one for long range passagemaking, and I finally figured out how to post a foto of it. Only 59' long, but 28'wide! And 9000 gallons of fuel!
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Isn't it shaped like that to fit the most fish aboard while remaining within regulations and size limitations mandated by federal/regional fisheries departments?

Like the polar opposite of a "canoe" at the Olympics.
 
For anyone thinking of a steel boat, you may want to peruse the most recent episode of Old Sea Dog, a 60-ish Brit who is singlehanding around the world. He's halfway and doing repairs in NZ. He shows some of his rust repairs.

Worth a look.

https://youtu.be/EREICVYZBZQ
 
Apparently so...huge fish and fuel capacity. But one doesnt have to store fish, you could anything else too. Good for long passages.
 
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