Are the stands mine?

[Doodie99]

So last weekend I purchased a Mainship mark1 that is a project boat. It's been on land for around 18 years. So I made an offer to the guy and it was accepted. With that said my bill of sale states as is where is. My plan is to move it and work on it. Several hours after purchasing it the guy returned and was wondering when I was moving it so he can take the stands. Now the guy is older and his mind is not doing well so I didn't say alot but I don't really think the stands are his unless he stated without stands? Thoughts?

 

[Bacchus]

My initial thoughts are that they are not part of the boat so can't be considered as such.
Were they listed as accessories or other equipment?
If so they belong if not listed I doubt it.
Things like fenders, lines, dinghies, outboard motors could go either way and need to be spelled out. Same with a storage cover & frame.
Just my layman's thinking.

 

[Seevee]

Agree.... if not attached to the boat, should be spelled out. You're probably gonna buy some stands.....

 

[Porgy]

I’d say ordinarily the stands aren’t part of the boat but the “as is, where is” clause makes me think otherwise. They are required for the boat to be sitting “where” it is at the time of sale so should be included. The seller can’t say, “well the sale is over, I’m taking my stands, see ya.”

It brings to mind ads and contracts typically have exclusions listed like tools, personal effects, etc. If they aren’t listed, they go with the boat. The seller can’t show up after the sale is completed claiming he forgot his tools unless the exclusion is noted. I think stands are analogous. What if the OP intended to leave the boat there and work on it rather than move it. Was there a pre-sale discussion regarding the stands? If not, I think they go with the boat.

 

[Doodie99]

Hmm, let me look at that... I think it does have an exclusion section that is empty. It's the coast guard BOS.

 

[OldDan1943]

They dont belong to the yard?

"I thought they were part of the sale."
OR
"How much do you want for them?"

 

[Doodie99]

The don't belong to the yard. It's a private club. The former owner never specifically mentioned he wanted them till after the sale.

 

[smitty477]

Were we are/were in the Northeast the stands do not convey with a boat unless specifically posted in the add or sale document.

 

[tiltrider1]

This is one that only a court of law can settle. The clause as is were is suggests that the seller is giving up all rights and responsibilities for the boat. I would make the claim that the stands go with the boat since they are not rented. If he feels different he can file a lawsuit. They are after all attached to the boat as she presently sits. They obviously were not excluded in the bill of sale which also gives you more ammo.

The only successful after the fact claims that I am aware of have been for non boating items.

Of course even a lawyer will tell you these things can go either way.

 

[rwidman]

You bought the boat, not the stands.

Offer to buy the stands from him or go to West Marine and buy new stands.

 

[Doodie99]

If the boat was not on the stands when I bought it I would think otherwise but I kind of see it like buying a boat on the trailer and being told after that the trailer is not included. If I knew before I would have negotiated them in the deal but it blindsided me saying after.

 

[Bacchus]

As in other things possession carries some weight. I get the as is where is and agree it could go either way.
I might move it along with the stands and just assume/ claim they are now mine.
How do you want to settle this?
Court case w lawyers, small claims or split the cost and agree we should have been clearer.

 

[MYTraveler]

I’d say ordinarily the stands aren’t part of the boat but the “as is, where is” clause makes me think otherwise. They are required for the boat to be sitting “where” it is at the time of sale so should be included. Was there a pre-sale discussion regarding the stands? If not, I think they go with the boat.

Under that theory, the land is also included.

 

[mvweebles]

If the boat was not on the stands when I bought it I would think otherwise but I kind of see it like buying a boat on the trailer and being told after that the trailer is not included. If I knew before I would have negotiated them in the deal but it blindsided me saying after.

I agree with you. This is not the standard case of a boat in a yard on jackstands that clearly are not an appurtenance to the boat. This is the case of a boat that has been sitting - on-stands - for years, and will need to go someplace else to sit - on-stands - for a while. I believe you were well within reason to expect that 'what you see is what you get' unless otherwise described or discussed.

As an aside, stuff like this is a very common reason that deals fall apart. I hope your restoration goes well. Good luck.

Peter

 

[MYTraveler]

I kind of see it like buying a boat on the trailer and being told after that the trailer is not included. If I knew before I would have negotiated them in the deal but it blindsided me saying after.

A bill of sale to the boat wouldn't include the trailer. Your expectation that the stands were included is understandable. The seller may have even had it in mind that he didn't want to include the stands (they may not be his), but intentionally did not bring it up during negotiation for the boat because he didn't want to include them. Either way, you didn't bargain for them and they were not included. I would offer to buy, and if the guy feels at all bad about the exclusion, maybe he will discount the price a little to clear his conscience.

 

[kthoennes]

In our marina the marina owns almost all of them and then rents them (well, charges a small fee for their use) when they pull and store boats for the season. Some boaters have bought their own and you'll see some boat names painted on some, but in a yard of any size (400-slip marina here) they seem to get all mixed up anyway. Kind of like ladders and big blocks of wood, they end up moving around everywhere, good luck keeping track of yours unless you use a chain and padlock -- not theft, they just migrate like community property.

Assuming he thinks he owns them (as opposed to the yard or marina), then yeah, subject to negotiation along with everything else not attached to the boat.

 

[firehoser75]

This is a case of where both the seller and buyer made a "contract" mistake. Seller should have listed the stands as an exclusion, as they are obviously there holding the boat up and are necessary if a future buyer wants to work on the boat on the hard on his/her private property, and the buyer should have included (listed) them in his offer to purchase like any other item that was not attached to the boat but was important to the sale (eg. dinghy, outboard, etc.). Detailed and well worded contracts (offers to purchase) definitely make deals go more smoothly than vague ones where misunderstandings can create angst!

You both don't know what the other is (was) thinking. You probably don't want the possibility of a court case and all that could be involved??
I suggest that you discuss the situation with him and your position and why you feel that way (maybe he will agree and/or understand), and if not, possibly negotiate a "reduced" price for your purchase of them, hopefully then both of you will be sharing a feeling of a little "pain" for your mistakes, but peacefully solving the misunderstanding in good faith.

However, realize that by the very act of this negotiation, should you two "agree to disagree", you may have weakened your position in court should it go that way?? EG. If you were willing to negotiate then you did not feel that you "owned them"? I am not a lawyer, just my non-professional thoughts. To me, this is not "cut and dry" either way. Good luck.

 

[koliver]

Need more information.
Are the stands fastened to the boat?
Is the boat merely resting on the stands?
If the former, such as having a leg that can be adjusted at the bottom for levelling, one on each side of the boat, or a set of stands that can be moved to allow painting of the spot the pad touches the boat? The former would likely be custom built for the boat, by its owner, the latter just a few of many owned by the yard. Whether a club or commercial is irrelevant.
Ask the Club, did they provide the stands originally, do they rent the space? Are there other boats on the hard at that location?

 

[smitty477]

If the boat was not on the stands when I bought it I would think otherwise but I kind of see it like buying a boat on the trailer and being told after that the trailer is not included. If I knew before I would have negotiated them in the deal but it blindsided me saying after.

Relating to the boat and/or private club their can be other potential issues if they have not been addressed prior to purchase, some examples:

- time period before you need to move it
- who is allowed access to the boat prior to the move
- who is allowed to move the boat
- fees and/or insurance coverage's required by the club
- any existing boat fees to be paid or accruing fees after the sale
etc

 

[SoWhat]

Stands are not attached to the boat so are not part of the sale.
Of course nothing was mentioned about moving the boat off the stands so new owner could certainly drag his feet. "Take me to court"

Clearly this was an informal transaction where something obvious just fell through the cracks. The new owner could ask to rescind the contract due to a complete misunderstanding of what was for sale. The stands would probably become a negotiable item very quickly.

 

[skyhawk]

They dont belong to the yard?

"I thought they were part of the sale."
OR
"How much do you want for them?"

I think those three sentences probably would have been exactly the next words from my mouth.

That said....
if the boat was a small boat sitting on a trailer, what would the assumption be?

 

[Solly]

You bought the boat, got a bill of sale for the boat. What's on the boat and what's in the boat. I have never heard of stands going with a boat. Mostly because I've only been involved with marina's who owned the stands.
Find out who owns the stands. If it's the boat owner make him an offer. If not, he may have to turn them in to somebody.
Completely different but you say you got a bill of sale. Check to see what your State requires to register the boat. In MD. you need a title, no ifs, ands, or buts. Not sure about the Coast Guard registration. But it's been years since it was used. Immediately.

 

[twistedtree]

You can obviously argue it either way, and it's unfortunate it was left unclear in the purchase. Perhaps you could discuss it with the owner and offer to buy them at some discounted price, assuming you need your own for wherever the boat will be stored? I just don't see it being worth much of a fight.

 

[STB]

"As is." means the seller won't make repairs or improvements, etc.

"Where is." means the seller won't deliver.

You no more own the stands that the boat sits on than the dirt the stands sit on.

Buying a boat isn't a "Cuius est solum, eius est usque ad coelum et ad inferos." Thing. You get the boat, and any additional property enumerated. Anything else is a courtesy.

Unless you are arguing the stands are part of the boat, like the rudders or the engines, I am not seeing where they are involved in an agreement to transact nothing more than a boat.

 

[Doodie99]

Well I got a full mixed bag of answers. It sounds like it really depends on where you store it and what was agreed upon.
Since there was not a set agreement I guess I don't have much argument.
Fortunately my dad knows many people and called in a few favors so i will have significantly newer stands now.

 

[catalinajack]

This guy should consider himself lucky that someone took this boat off his hads. Tell to go pound sand. He could get an attorney but that would hardly be worth it. I wouldn't give in to his demands.

 

[kthoennes]

...Fortunately my dad knows many people and called in a few favors so i will have significantly newer stands now.

Yikes, that could be read like something out of the Sopranos. "Someday, and that day may never come, I may call upon you to do me a service. Your don would certainly appreciate new jackstands, just as a gesture of goodwill."

"When I wake up, I'll check if there are some shiny new jackstands in the boatyard. If there are, then I'll know I have a partner. If there aren't, I'll know I don't."

 

[BandB]

"As is." means the seller won't make repairs or improvements, etc.

"Where is." means the seller won't deliver.

You no more own the stands that the boat sits on than the dirt the stands sit on.

Buying a boat isn't a "Cuius est solum, eius est usque ad coelum et ad inferos." Thing. You get the boat, and any additional property enumerated. Anything else is a courtesy.

Unless you are arguing the stands are part of the boat, like the rudders or the engines, I am not seeing where they are involved in an agreement to transact nothing more than a boat.

I agree. You did not buy the stands. Now you may at this point choose to do so.

Oddly, we have encountered similar as a merchant with people who buy collectibles and antiques displayed on stands or tables. We spell it out clearly in the store and on the sales invoice. The point is that you buy an antique bowl sitting on a table, you don't expect the table to come with it. Oh, and all antiques are sold "as is".

I would be most curious what the seller has as far as plans for the stands.

 

[Doodie99]

Yikes, that could be read like something out of the Sopranos. "Someday, and that day may never come, I may call upon you to do me a service. Your don would certainly appreciate new jackstands, just as a gesture of goodwill."

"When I wake up, I'll check if there are some shiny new jackstands in the boatyard. If there are, then I'll know I have a partner. If there aren't, I'll know I don't."

Yeh, I know a guy!...

 

[Jeff F]

The stands could just as easily have belonged to the yard. If you didn't ask you didn't buy them.

I'd ask him if wants to sell them to you. He may be reasonable.