Stabilizers: A Must for Passage-Making?
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Southern Boater
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Bolted and glued/fibreglassed.
Muirgen Afloat
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We just use the same fish on the paravanes for flopper stoppers. Though I think there are actual flopper stoppers under the master bed, but we've never tried them, just use the regular paravanes.
Dswizzler
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SanFrancisco to Panamá
We have been cruising for just over 7 years full time, traveling from SF to Panamá, while spending 5 years going the US border as far south as Manzanillo Mexico, without stablizers We have cruised 30-40 miles off shore very successfully by picking out weather windows. Sure they would be nice, but money might be better spent on a good battery bank…maybe lithium, a good solar aray. A good water maker. These products allow you to stay off the dock and enjoy anchoring out. We have been off the dock for months at a time. We just finished two months in the San Blas Islands.
The question I think is more of, where do you plan on cruise, can you cover required distances in a few day,. Weather forecast now are good for 48-72 hours. how flexible is your schedule, can you wait for good weather windows.
It has worked for us we are just beginning a 2500 miles run from Panamá to Mexico on Tuesday without stabilization and that is not a concern for me, during coastal cruising.
We have been cruising for just over 7 years full time, traveling from SF to Panamá, while spending 5 years going the US border as far south as Manzanillo Mexico, without stablizers We have cruised 30-40 miles off shore very successfully by picking out weather windows. Sure they would be nice, but money might be better spent on a good battery bank…maybe lithium, a good solar aray. A good water maker. These products allow you to stay off the dock and enjoy anchoring out. We have been off the dock for months at a time. We just finished two months in the San Blas Islands.
The question I think is more of, where do you plan on cruise, can you cover required distances in a few day,. Weather forecast now are good for 48-72 hours. how flexible is your schedule, can you wait for good weather windows.
It has worked for us we are just beginning a 2500 miles run from Panamá to Mexico on Tuesday without stabilization and that is not a concern for me, during coastal cruising.
proudsailor
Veteran Member
Lots of responses. We've been shopping for awhile and recently signed a contract. She is easily sea sick and we've had guests on our sailboat that get easily seasick. No brainer for us on stabilizers. What we're seeing as we've been looking...
1. There are almost as many full displacement trawlers with stabilizers as without. So it hasn't been difficult finding them with fins.
2. Price difference in much older (you're looking at an '85) boats isn't as great as if you are to add them after the fact. At least that's what we've seen as we've been looking.
3. Several older DeFevers on the market w/ stabilizers. They are great boats and you may want to get onto the DeFever Cruiser Forum and ask owners there. Also the forum has a 44 or two for sale with stabilizers.
4. Paravanes and flopper stoppers are less expensive solutions! But then they aren't deployed in crappy weather with just a push of a button. Although they are easier to maintain.
Enjoy the search....
1. There are almost as many full displacement trawlers with stabilizers as without. So it hasn't been difficult finding them with fins.
2. Price difference in much older (you're looking at an '85) boats isn't as great as if you are to add them after the fact. At least that's what we've seen as we've been looking.
3. Several older DeFevers on the market w/ stabilizers. They are great boats and you may want to get onto the DeFever Cruiser Forum and ask owners there. Also the forum has a 44 or two for sale with stabilizers.
4. Paravanes and flopper stoppers are less expensive solutions! But then they aren't deployed in crappy weather with just a push of a button. Although they are easier to maintain.
Enjoy the search....
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Sophiahjohnson
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Stabilizers !!
We recently crossed the Pacific in June in our 2006 Diesel Duck 462-which was certainly designed to do exactly what she did - handle the seas with grace and glory-even in the worst of it with 40' seas. We had our stabilizers in the water the ENTIRE crossing - even on nice days. We pulled them in while we had a very calm day with minimal seas (under a foot) and the difference of the side to side motion was certainly noticeable and the speed once they were out wasn't even anything noticeable or anything to make the decision to keep them up or put them back in. The comfort of our crew was key and priority and it certainly was beneficial to have them in. Even in the worst of our journey - we lost the stbd side stabilizer and for 8 hours we were in high seas with only the port side in. Once we reached calmer seas-we thankfully had a back up spare-which I would absolutely recommend to have. I am so very thankful for our stabilizers and couldn't imagine how boats can cross without them...guess it just makes for a tougher belly!
www.mvlacosta.com/blog if you would like to read all about it.
We recently crossed the Pacific in June in our 2006 Diesel Duck 462-which was certainly designed to do exactly what she did - handle the seas with grace and glory-even in the worst of it with 40' seas. We had our stabilizers in the water the ENTIRE crossing - even on nice days. We pulled them in while we had a very calm day with minimal seas (under a foot) and the difference of the side to side motion was certainly noticeable and the speed once they were out wasn't even anything noticeable or anything to make the decision to keep them up or put them back in. The comfort of our crew was key and priority and it certainly was beneficial to have them in. Even in the worst of our journey - we lost the stbd side stabilizer and for 8 hours we were in high seas with only the port side in. Once we reached calmer seas-we thankfully had a back up spare-which I would absolutely recommend to have. I am so very thankful for our stabilizers and couldn't imagine how boats can cross without them...guess it just makes for a tougher belly!
www.mvlacosta.com/blog if you would like to read all about it.
HypnoBob
Veteran Member
We owned a 2001 DeFever 44+5 CPMY and used it for the Great Loop cruise. The full-length deep keel gave it plenty of lateral stability and the flat after section of the cockpit gave it form stability. I would not put stabilizers on this boat for a couple of reasons. 1st we wanted to do the loop and stabilizers in the canals just snagged stuff. 2nd, we wanted to go to the Bahamas and stabilizers were notorious for snagging sand bars. Newer ones today, will break away rather than holling the boat.
The 44 is different. The keel is shorter and the flat section is not that long compared to the 44+5. It is a boat that will let you know you're at sea.
But let's talk about that.
If you plan to just cruise around Kentucky and the rivers. I wouldn't bother.
If you're planning on doing the Great Loop, you won't see 3 to 6 foot seas unless you missed the NOAA broadcast before heading out so, I wouldn't bother. Only one short segment between Atlantic City and NY will you be offshore (or you could take the ICW, but you need to pay attention and not miss a buoy). If you do hit rough seas, drive from below. You won't be thrown from side to side - woohoo and you won't have the 1st mate screaming, "get me off this effing boat!"
If you're planning on Passagemaking and extended offshore cruising, well then that's another story all together. Put on the stabilizers. I like the rolling but the first mate, well that's another story.
These full-displacement passagemaking boats have wine-glass hull forms like sailboats and are designed to roll with the sea. Keeps it from being a "white knuckle" ride.
The 44 is different. The keel is shorter and the flat section is not that long compared to the 44+5. It is a boat that will let you know you're at sea.
But let's talk about that.
If you plan to just cruise around Kentucky and the rivers. I wouldn't bother.
If you're planning on doing the Great Loop, you won't see 3 to 6 foot seas unless you missed the NOAA broadcast before heading out so, I wouldn't bother. Only one short segment between Atlantic City and NY will you be offshore (or you could take the ICW, but you need to pay attention and not miss a buoy). If you do hit rough seas, drive from below. You won't be thrown from side to side - woohoo and you won't have the 1st mate screaming, "get me off this effing boat!"
If you're planning on Passagemaking and extended offshore cruising, well then that's another story all together. Put on the stabilizers. I like the rolling but the first mate, well that's another story.
These full-displacement passagemaking boats have wine-glass hull forms like sailboats and are designed to roll with the sea. Keeps it from being a "white knuckle" ride.
BluewaterN47
Veteran Member
Consider stabilizers on an offshore passagemaking boat for SAFETY as much as for COMFORT.
Being in big seas in a rolling boat stresses and tires virtually everyone aboard, and having stabilizers smooths out the roll and makes onboard life both safer and far more comfortable.
Tired, worn-out captains and crewmembers make many more errors, and such errors lead bad judgment and endanger both the boat and the crew.
Even with great weather routing, you cannot always avoid bad weather, especially on ocean crossings, but stabilizers will help your boat and your crew weather the storms with more comfort and safety.
I crossed the Atlantic from Fort Lauderdale to Gibraltar as captain of my Nordhavn 47 with both stabilizers and paravanes, and the passage was a good test. In my experience, the paravanes were about two-thirds as effective as the stabilizers as reducing roll, but they impose a significant drag penalty (roughly 1 knot at a nominal 7-knot speed of advance), which active fin stabilizers do not. Also, keep in mind that setting and retrieving paravanes typically requires two people and takes 15-20 minutes, depending on sea conditions. Stabiizers turn on and off at the flick of a switch.
If you have a sailing background, rigging, deploying and recovering paravanes is much easier to understand because of the many lines involved--sheets, guys, halyards, downhauls and more. While non-sailors can learn the rigging, it doesn't come natural.
Better safe than sorry!
Being in big seas in a rolling boat stresses and tires virtually everyone aboard, and having stabilizers smooths out the roll and makes onboard life both safer and far more comfortable.
Tired, worn-out captains and crewmembers make many more errors, and such errors lead bad judgment and endanger both the boat and the crew.
Even with great weather routing, you cannot always avoid bad weather, especially on ocean crossings, but stabilizers will help your boat and your crew weather the storms with more comfort and safety.
I crossed the Atlantic from Fort Lauderdale to Gibraltar as captain of my Nordhavn 47 with both stabilizers and paravanes, and the passage was a good test. In my experience, the paravanes were about two-thirds as effective as the stabilizers as reducing roll, but they impose a significant drag penalty (roughly 1 knot at a nominal 7-knot speed of advance), which active fin stabilizers do not. Also, keep in mind that setting and retrieving paravanes typically requires two people and takes 15-20 minutes, depending on sea conditions. Stabiizers turn on and off at the flick of a switch.
If you have a sailing background, rigging, deploying and recovering paravanes is much easier to understand because of the many lines involved--sheets, guys, halyards, downhauls and more. While non-sailors can learn the rigging, it doesn't come natural.
Better safe than sorry!
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rpackard
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My Willard 40 has a round bottom and came equipped with paravanes. For 15 years in the Sea of Cortez I used them about 30% of the time. In Alaska I almost never used them except in the open ocean. Coming down the coast from Alaska to Mexico I had them deployed the entire time.
I personally would never purchase a boat with active stabilizers. They do a better job of stabilizing than paravanes but require expensive maintenance. They are also susceptible to snag kelp or crab trap lines. I almost purchased a Willard 36 once that had active fins but when i inquired the cost to remove them it killed the deal. I am in a minority who feels this way but, for cruising away from shoreside support I believe a boat should be as simple as possible.
If, like Peter, I had owned a boat with active fins, I may have felt differently.
If you are comfortable with paying US prices for boat mechanical maintenance ( ~$120/hr) then get them. If you wish to keep things simple, install paravanes.
I also installed roll chocks two years ago in Mexico and found that I then used the paravanes less. But for lots of open ocean passages you probably want something better, like paravanes.
Whoever tells you that paravanes are difficult to launch and retrieve does not have a proper rig.
My Willard 30 was also a rolly boat. i used her for 22 years in Alaska and the inside passage and never had stabilization. Sometimes it was very uncomfortable but that discomfort was not worth another $50k and the every-two-years required maintenance to the seals. It was not even worth the cost to install paravanes. But SE Alaska has very little open ocean water.
I think your decision boils down to how you would use those funds if you don’t spend it on the boat. No one who already has spent money on active stabilization will tell you it was money wasted. But that is human nature.
I personally would never purchase a boat with active stabilizers. They do a better job of stabilizing than paravanes but require expensive maintenance. They are also susceptible to snag kelp or crab trap lines. I almost purchased a Willard 36 once that had active fins but when i inquired the cost to remove them it killed the deal. I am in a minority who feels this way but, for cruising away from shoreside support I believe a boat should be as simple as possible.
If, like Peter, I had owned a boat with active fins, I may have felt differently.
If you are comfortable with paying US prices for boat mechanical maintenance ( ~$120/hr) then get them. If you wish to keep things simple, install paravanes.
I also installed roll chocks two years ago in Mexico and found that I then used the paravanes less. But for lots of open ocean passages you probably want something better, like paravanes.
Whoever tells you that paravanes are difficult to launch and retrieve does not have a proper rig.
My Willard 30 was also a rolly boat. i used her for 22 years in Alaska and the inside passage and never had stabilization. Sometimes it was very uncomfortable but that discomfort was not worth another $50k and the every-two-years required maintenance to the seals. It was not even worth the cost to install paravanes. But SE Alaska has very little open ocean water.
I think your decision boils down to how you would use those funds if you don’t spend it on the boat. No one who already has spent money on active stabilization will tell you it was money wasted. But that is human nature.
AnnapolisJoy
Veteran Member
Yes yes yes!!!!
My wife and I have been cruising the North Atlantic coast from the Bahamas to Nova Scotia. Cruised in all kinds of weather and waves. Our last two boats were a 55 and a 65’ trawler. We would NEVER consider owning or traveling on a boat without stabilizers. NEVER!
On the occasional time we were forced to due to a hydraulic malfunction we knew the real value of them.
Another time is in the calm waters of the ICW. Cruising along at 9-10 knots we are targets for the sport fishing boats that have little regard for their wakes. Even with stabilizers their wakes can wreak havoc when they pass.
My wife and I have been cruising the North Atlantic coast from the Bahamas to Nova Scotia. Cruised in all kinds of weather and waves. Our last two boats were a 55 and a 65’ trawler. We would NEVER consider owning or traveling on a boat without stabilizers. NEVER!
On the occasional time we were forced to due to a hydraulic malfunction we knew the real value of them.
Another time is in the calm waters of the ICW. Cruising along at 9-10 knots we are targets for the sport fishing boats that have little regard for their wakes. Even with stabilizers their wakes can wreak havoc when they pass.
Agree 100%. After a week rolling in 25+ footers the two things I suffered from were fatigue from the constant motion (no sea sickness thankfully) and from the noise (Jimmies and poor engine room sound insulation).
beachbum5953
Member
5-8 foot seas without stabilizers?
Hi K & K...
We have a DF 49 Euro with stabilizers. Prior to that we had a 40' Fathom w/o fins and the difference is night and day. We took the fathom across the Strait of Juan de Fuca in the Fathom with a beam sea for about 30+ miles and my wife was ready to disown me...
On the other hand, we brought our DF around from Seattle and we're currently in Boston for the summer. Reasonable beam seas don't bother us, but, depending on the interval, with 5-8 foot seas on the beam or nose outside the breakwater, and we'll probably choose to hang out for a day or two. Perhaps if it's 5' following sea, I'd try it... Even with stabilizers, I normally look for the interval to be 2-3 seconds longer than the highest reported seas, so 5-8' seas would require an interval of 8-11 seconds... Also, keep in mind that a report of 5-8' seas means that there will be an occasional 10-12 footer thrown in just to keep you humble...
Of course the boat will handle much larger seas, but I'll guarantee than the crew will not be looking kindly on the Captain even after a pretty short trip in short interval 5-8' seas...
Just my two cents...
Hi K & K...
We have a DF 49 Euro with stabilizers. Prior to that we had a 40' Fathom w/o fins and the difference is night and day. We took the fathom across the Strait of Juan de Fuca in the Fathom with a beam sea for about 30+ miles and my wife was ready to disown me...
On the other hand, we brought our DF around from Seattle and we're currently in Boston for the summer. Reasonable beam seas don't bother us, but, depending on the interval, with 5-8 foot seas on the beam or nose outside the breakwater, and we'll probably choose to hang out for a day or two. Perhaps if it's 5' following sea, I'd try it... Even with stabilizers, I normally look for the interval to be 2-3 seconds longer than the highest reported seas, so 5-8' seas would require an interval of 8-11 seconds... Also, keep in mind that a report of 5-8' seas means that there will be an occasional 10-12 footer thrown in just to keep you humble...
Of course the boat will handle much larger seas, but I'll guarantee than the crew will not be looking kindly on the Captain even after a pretty short trip in short interval 5-8' seas...
Just my two cents...
normandawn1
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Stabilizer from Oz
70k seems a lot. Are they the powered fins (which only work when underway)?
A lot of trawlers in Australia fit what are called "bat wings". They consist of a foil or solid 11/2" plate fixed at the waterline on each beam. They can be mechanically raised and lowered and locked in position. A mate just fitted them for 16k and they make a huge difference while underway or at anchor. The only time he lifts them is when coming in to a Dock.
70k seems a lot. Are they the powered fins (which only work when underway)?
A lot of trawlers in Australia fit what are called "bat wings". They consist of a foil or solid 11/2" plate fixed at the waterline on each beam. They can be mechanically raised and lowered and locked in position. A mate just fitted them for 16k and they make a huge difference while underway or at anchor. The only time he lifts them is when coming in to a Dock.
BobMc
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Short answer: absolutely not necessary. We cruised over 45,000 miles in two trawlers without stabilizers. If you need your boat to be more like your home and are looking for a way to spend more money, then consider stabilizers; if you understand that your boat is a boat, maybe bumpy at times, don't!
Look on Youtube for "Project Brupeg". It covers these extensively. It's a steel trawler, so not sure if they can be applied to fiberglass.
Fletcher500
Guru
Interesting to hear from cruisers who have done some extensive ocean crossings.
There are a few exceptions, but the majority of people who have stabilization on their boat generally love them, and wouldn’t get another boat without them.
I am only in the coastal cruising category, but log some fairly extensive miles in unprotected waters since I retired 3 years ago. This is our first boat with Stab, and very thankful for it.
Bluewater N47 in post #70 makes some important points.
There are a few exceptions, but the majority of people who have stabilization on their boat generally love them, and wouldn’t get another boat without them.
I am only in the coastal cruising category, but log some fairly extensive miles in unprotected waters since I retired 3 years ago. This is our first boat with Stab, and very thankful for it.
Bluewater N47 in post #70 makes some important points.
Simi 60
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I guess we must be lucky in our part of the world
Coastal cruising manages to get us within several days of open water passages to other lands
And weather can be glassy calm for those passages if you plan and wait for them.
Have done several runs to New Caledonia and Vanuatu on various vessels under 55ft - 1100nm of open ocean 6d 6h @7.5kn from Brisbane, no stabilisation and no spillages.
To go to New Guinea is 800nm of coastal then 450nm of open ocean 2d 11h @7.5kn
To go South East Asia is 2500nm of coastal then 250nm of open ocean 1d 11h @7.5kn
Everything onwards after that is pretty much day tripping.
Would I like stabilisers on our current vessel?
Absolutely and if it was achievable under $10k I'd be on it.
But I believe passage planning and no schedule is more important than stabilisers.
Sit back, have a drink, take in the scenery and wait
Coastal cruising manages to get us within several days of open water passages to other lands
And weather can be glassy calm for those passages if you plan and wait for them.
Have done several runs to New Caledonia and Vanuatu on various vessels under 55ft - 1100nm of open ocean 6d 6h @7.5kn from Brisbane, no stabilisation and no spillages.
To go to New Guinea is 800nm of coastal then 450nm of open ocean 2d 11h @7.5kn
To go South East Asia is 2500nm of coastal then 250nm of open ocean 1d 11h @7.5kn
Everything onwards after that is pretty much day tripping.
Would I like stabilisers on our current vessel?
Absolutely and if it was achievable under $10k I'd be on it.
But I believe passage planning and no schedule is more important than stabilisers.
Sit back, have a drink, take in the scenery and wait
We lived aboard our DeFever 44 for several years, without stabilizers. I agree the boat can handle seas far better than our bodies. But I would not have that boat again without stabilizers. We looked into adding them and the cost was prohibitive. There was no problem when we were punching into waves, and most times, but not all, when they were from behind. But any other direction was not comfortable, or safe, especially on long passages or going through the night. It drives the depth sounder crazy too.
Having said all this, a friend had a repair of theirs and it was many thousands of dollars. If you can, wait for a stabilized boat and be sure your surveyor knows to check them thoroughly, age and condition.
Having said all this, a friend had a repair of theirs and it was many thousands of dollars. If you can, wait for a stabilized boat and be sure your surveyor knows to check them thoroughly, age and condition.
AnnapolisJoy
Veteran Member
You will live to regret it
Given that you have a choice get a boat with stabilizers. You wife will hate you if you do not.
Given that you have a choice get a boat with stabilizers. You wife will hate you if you do not.
This POV overlooks that some passengers and crew may not be as comfortable with boat motion as a typical captain. Following this I would have to leave my wife at home for much of the cruising outside the breakwater, which I prefer not to do.
2savage
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Look at the content from my selection of YouTube videos for Savage the Trawler. There are some shots of the vanes in action and others showing mountings and rigging. There's even some footage of a sailboat in Cape May helping me fix a 'birds nest' when I got caught half deployed with rough waves.
Simi 60
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Nice one but steel boat makes things easier therefore cheaper
and the mast was already there I'm guessing
But to add a mast to a boat without one or framework to support those loads especially if bulkheads aren't in the right place to support it will add a whole new magnitude of $$
Still sticking with our $30,000 guestimate based on others that have done the design and framework from scratch
And that framework will then be shading our solar as well
So not as easy or cheap for some unfortunately
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Delfin
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15 years with Trac stabilizers. Zero maintenance cost except once every 7 years they are to be pulled, bearings replaced, etc. Not sure what that cost was, but around $1500 from memory, or around $200/year. Yawn.
Delfin
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Hollywood, my personal opinion is that active fins seem to improve efficiency. I suppose it's because they keep the vessel more on the designed water line (upright), rather than heeling with a bit of helm wandering. The Floscan verified this in trials.
ksanders
Moderator Emeritus
Yes! plan your travel days for good weather, and hang out in port during bad weather.
Haven't seen raising batwings.
The wings I am familiar with are horizontal sheet steel, 1/2" or so, affixed beneath the keel, extending to the maximum beam and secured in place by verticals that are bolted to the hull above the WL. They work well on FD boats with round hulls. Always in use, little or no drag losses.
SeaMaster101
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