sidepower bow thruster wrong direction

[magna 6882]

The handing markings are on the inside hub so not visible. There was enough setbacks in the yard to get this all resolved on there dime since i already gave them a trice as many dimes as i was quoted. The gearbox could have been installed backwards which is approved but does change the handing. With the work i am doing on the boat and the weather it will be a few weeks. both my wife and i are helicopter pilots so control function adapts to mussel memory very quickly so we wont run the boat with this condition.
When you push a control function and get a different action your instant reaction is to input a counter action.

 

[greatpapabear]

The handing markings are on the inside hub so not visible.

With two different Side Power thrusters on Play d'eau, markings are difficult to find - although they are visible if you know where to look.

When I remove the blades, I place a small piece of paper with an L or R in the hub and tape over the hole, hopefully to eliminate refitting issues.

 

[Comodave]

The handing markings are on the inside hub so not visible. There was enough setbacks in the yard to get this all resolved on there dime since i already gave them a trice as many dimes as i was quoted. The gearbox could have been installed backwards which is approved but does change the handing. With the work i am doing on the boat and the weather it will be a few weeks. both my wife and i are helicopter pilots so control function adapts to mussel memory very quickly so we wont run the boat with this condition.
When you push a control function and get a different action your instant reaction is to input a counter action.

I agree that the yard should fix the problem. However if you can’t get it hauled in the short term just swap the control wires and you are good. When they swap the props just swap the control wires back and you are done. It literally is less than 5 minutes and you are done. As to hacking the system, baloney. This is what Sidepower recommends doing if it runs the opposite direction from the joystick. Simple.

 

[Comodave]

This is from a Sidepower manual. Note where it says if the drive direction is opposite of what is expected to swap the blue and gray wires…


• You can install as many panels as you wish by using optional Y-connectors. If two or more panels are operated at the same time in opposite directions, the electronic controlbox will stop the thruster until it only receives a signal to go in one direction.
• You can install as many panels as you wish by using optional Y-connectors. If two or more panels are operated at the same time in opposite directions, the electronic controlbox will stop the thruster until it only receives a signal to go in one direction.
• When using original Sidepower equipment it is all "plug & go".
• When using original Sidepower equipment it is all "plug & go".
• If the drive direction of the thruster is the opposite of what ex-pected, the blue and grey wire must be changed on each panel.
• If the drive direction of the thruster is the opposite of what ex-pected, the blue and grey wire must be changed on each panel.
• The mechanical installation of the panel is described in the manual following the panel.
• The mechanical installation of the panel is described in the manual following the panel.
• The IP thruster is gas proof based on the control panel lead ending outside of the area that requires ignition protection. The prefitted control lead must be fitted in the boat so there is no risk of damage to the insulation, causing explosive gas penetration.
• The IP thruster is gas proof based on the control panel lead ending outside of the area that requires ignition protection. The prefitted control lead must be fitted in the boat so there is no risk of damage to the insulation, causing explosive gas penetration.
• The thruster control should be placed in a position were it is easy to use, and it is very common to use the thruster at the same time as your gear / throttle lever so it is normally a user friendly solution to be able to access these with one hand for each control.
• The thruster control should be placed in a position were it is easy to use, and it is very common to use the thruster at the same time as

 

[Jeff F]

I agree that the yard should fix the problem. However if you can’t get it hauled in the short term just swap the control wires and you are good. When they swap the props just swap the control wires back and you are done. It literally is less than 5 minutes and you are done. As to hacking the system, baloney. This is what Sidepower recommends doing if it runs the opposite direction from the joystick. Simple.

My Vetus manual says the same thing about swapping control wires if the response is backwards. That indicates to me that the prop installation is arbitrary and having them reversed is not uncommon. I can't see a reason not to follow that prescribed solution.

 

[Comodave]

The Sideshift thrusters that I just installed do not even have a polarity on the power cables. They just say after launch if it thrusts the wrong direction swap the control wires. This is apparently the way a lot of manufacturers see as the correct solution to backwards thrust. Everyone is making a way to big deal out of a simple solution.

 

[Island Cessna]

The Sideshift thrusters that I just installed do not even have a polarity on the power cables. They just say after launch if it thrusts the wrong direction swap the control wires. This is apparently the way a lot of manufacturers see as the correct solution to backwards thrust. Everyone is making a way to big deal out of a simple solution.

+1
The thruster is designed to work equally well in either direction, so there is no downside to swapping the control wires. If you damage the yard with no gain to you, both of you loose. I’d take the low cost, equal value to me, solution and use the savings to enhance my relationship and reputation as a customer with the yard.

 

[Comodave]

Yes, IMO the OP has two options to deal with this.

Option 1: Swap the control wires, 5 minute job with 2 heat shrink butt connectors, and tell the yard that they may have reversed his props but he temporarily fixed it by swapping the control wires. Ask that they swap the props around next time the boat is hauled and then put the wiring back to original. Maybe make a new friend of the yard manager.

Option 2: Demand they haul the boat and swap the props. Deal with the pain of a haul out. Most likely will not make any new friends at the yard.

Your choice???

 

[Sofa King Fishy]

You can reverse the direction by swapping the control wires. I don’t remember the colors of the wires though.

Blue for grey

 

[Circumnavigator]

I'm with Newtrawlerowner. The props are handed -- think about it, one faces each way, so one is always running forward with the water running away from the motor while the other is running in reverse, with the water running toward the motor.


They made them left and right for a reason -- they could have made them identical (see below). Although reversing the control leads will work, it would be best to swap them back the way they belong.


And yes, I know that props are usually mounted on a tapered shaft, and if the mount shaft is tapered, they can't be identical. But if the shaft is straight, with a spline or a hefty key, they could be identical, both mounted facing the same way.


Jim

 

[Comodave]

And if there was a legitimate reason not to swap the control wires wouldn’t Sidepower have said to swap the props instead of saying to swap the control wires. After all they make the thruster so I would think they know what is good or not.

 

[Jeff F]

I think the yard's mistake was in not catching the situation by doing a 30 second ìn water test followed by a five minute adjustment if required.

The props are labeled because the thruster won't work with two left hand or right hand props. They could equally be labeled A and B, or CW and CCW. A matched pair is required, but the left/right is completely arbitrary.

 

[Parro]

I got my boat launched today after some work that included changing the prop zincs on the thrusters. After launch i tried the bow thruster and it went the opposite direction .The display is correct and if i used the dock hold feature the boat does a 360. Is there a right and left hand prop? The yard wont call me back or respond to emails so i figured i would use the forum.

If the yard did entire job then just take it back and make them fix it.
Get their attention by parking in the lift bay until they do.
I’m over yards using inexperienced, often incompetent workers but still charging the full rate and then refusing to be accountable.

 

[magna 6882]

If the yard did entire job then just take it back and make them fix it.
Get their attention by parking in the lift bay until they do.
I’m over yards using inexperienced, often incompetent workers but still charging the full rate and then refusing to be accountable.

I agree with what your saying but the yard does know they screwed up and will repair at my convenience.

 

[Parro]

I agree with what your saying but the yard does know they screwed up and will repair at my convenience.

Oh, thats good. Your previous posts indicated the yard was uncooperative.

 

[Nick F]

Interesting . . .

- this means that the props are counter-rotating.

I was surprised by this at first - I imagined that there would be one solid shaft with a prop on each end, but this cannot be the case. The gear arrangement must look like an automotive differential.

Perhaps this makes for a more compact gear housing. Perhaps counter-rotating produces more thrust.

My vote? Switch the wires, for the valid reasons cited above.

 

[Circumnavigator]

Interesting . . .

- this means that the props are counter-rotating.

I was surprised by this at first - I imagined that there would be one solid shaft with a prop on each end, but this cannot be the case. The gear arrangement must look like an automotive differential.

Perhaps this makes for a more compact gear housing. Perhaps counter-rotating produces more thrust.

No. It is most likely a solid shaft, with a taper on each end. Mounting on a tapered shaft is typical for propellers as it makes it possible to have a very tight fit while still not too difficult to remove.


The taper means that the props must face in opposite directions, with one LH and the other RH so that one is running "forwards" while the other is running "backwards" and vice versa.


Jim

 

[Nick F]

Open to the floor . . . ! (I stand by my interpretation)

 

[Jeff F]

Open to the floor . . . ! (I stand by my interpretation)

One prop is counter rotating. They turn together, with one operating in forward and the other reverse because they are oriented opposite one another.

Make sense?

 

[magna 6882]

My reasoning for getting the props right is that if they are indeed marked left and right as indicated in the parts book the problem will likely return when the boat is pulled for bottom paint and a good technician would put the props in there correct orientation,unless directed other wise, And then i would be back to changing the wiring again.
They only removed the props to install the bottom paint.

 

[Comodave]

If you want to haul just to change the props then do it. I wouldn’t bother hauling just to change the props. I would swap the wires and live with it until you need a haul next time, maybe even negotiate a price reduction for the haul next year since you are not forcing them to haul you now. Then when they swap the props swap the wires back to original. 2 splices is nothing to do.

 

[magna 6882]

I took a look at the wiring as suggested and my system is controlled by a can-bus system with a PCJ controler and the wiring is a S link interface. I could remove the battery cables on the motors. Is this the wiring swap folks are suggesting. It looks like there may be some speed controllers involved also to regulated the dock hold feature.

 

[Comodave]

There should be a 4 wire control cable going from the joystick to the thruster itself. Red, black, gray and blue. Red is positive, black is ground, gray and blue are the direction control. You can swap them, blue and gray, at the joystick or at the thruster. Cut the 2 wires and splice them with a butt connector. Do you have 1 or 2 helms with joysticks? If you have 2 helms with joysticks then you have to swap the wires at each joystick. Or go to the thruster and swap them there and only have one swap to make. These are not the power wires going to the thruster but rather probably 16 gauge wires going into Molex connectors that plug into the joystick or the thruster.

 

[magna 6882]

Thanks for trying to help. Looking at the manual it looks like they are using a can bus similar to nema 2000 where all data goes thru. You add additional controllers just like nmea with a Slink T There is just a watertight screw in connection at the panel then to a T going to teh fly bridge and also a couple emergency stop boxes that are also on the can bus.I would appear they talk to each other.
Are you thinking cutting into the canbus cable ?

 

[magna 6882]

This is what i am working with for equipment.
Thanks for the help

 

[Comodave]

On page 11. The multi connector pins 1 and 5. Those should control the direction of the thruster. I would double check with Imtra but swapping those gray and blue/brown wires should reverse the thrust from what you have now.

 

[greatpapabear]

Isn't it clear that since the yard made a mistake, the yard has to correct it? Simple. Their error, their cost to correct matters.

You should certainly not have to bodge the wiring to counter their error.

 

[Bacchus]

Wow !
Almost 60 posts to debate a rather simple choice between 2 equally viable options.
If the yard agrees ( and I think that has already been confirmed) to fix it
Why not let them choose how?
If it is the swap control wires then have them also agree to swap both the wires and props back at the next haul?
That is, if there really are L-R or P-S marked props and a "correct" way to install them.