Side boarding doors cockpit and midship

[Nancy n Larry]

Looking for advice. What are your thoughts about adding boarding doors on the starboard and port sides of a new build? Thinking of adding four, two in the cockpit (which will make 3) and a starboard and port side door midship, outside the pilot house doors. Thinking that the two added to the cockpit might be plenty. The boat already does have pretty decent access midship. Thinking 4 might be overkill? Please advise, 2022 Helmsman 38E. Thank you

 

[FF]

Having a door amidship is about the only way a vessel can be single handed and dock or use a lock with ease.

 

[FWT]

For what its worth, I am ordering all of those doors.

Thought process:

1) I am in the east. There are fixed docks with short finger piers on only one side. On those occasions when you just must dock bow-in, simply getting on and off the boat can become an issue without easy midships access. I rank this more "nice to have" than "must have." Access without the doors isn't bad on the H38. How often will this occur? I am returning to boating after some decades so I can't judge frequency of haunting marina's laid out that way. It used to be more common than it appears today, but still.

2) With those fixed piers, the height of the boat access vs the finger pier changes with the tide of course. If you look closely at the H38, the height of the swim platform, the cockpit side threshold, and side deck thresholds are all different. So one has options as to which entry is the most comfortable in the situation. This comes into play in two ways. First, guests who are not nautical or spry and their comfort. Second, this is a retirement boat for me so I am sensitive to wanting things based on later age and flexibility. I don't want to age out of the boat prematurely if there is something I can do about it.

3) I am trying to maximize things for single handing. As said above, access without the midships doors isn't "bad", but better is better.

None of the above rise to a "must have" conclusion for me. Just that taken altogether it just seemed to be a "worth it" conclusion.

I could say it might assist with resale, but personally I think that overstates the case with this boat.

Edited to add: my wife is short. A step up or down of X inches is a different challenge for her than me.

 

[janice142]

If I may be so bold... I would not have the access tuna doors (that's what I have called them for 60 years -- unlikely to change any time soon) directly lined up to where your pilothouse doors are when opened. My concern is an accidental fall overboard.

For instance, on Seaweed, my door to the cockpit is just starboard of centerline. Once I get the tuna door cut, it will be to the port of center. Thus, if I accidentally tumbled out, I can not end up in the drink.

Now I'm a soloist, so my concerns may differ from yours. AND, one of the things I preach incessantly is:

Make absolutely sure you can re-board your boat from the water without assistance.

As a side note, three steps under the water surface are best. None of us are getting any younger. Two is fine for the kids -- or maybe none, but... I'm old, lack strength in my left side, and MUST be able to get aboard without any help. Be safe...

Oh, and congratulations on the Helmsman. Those are great looking homes.

 

[FWT]

If I may be so bold... I would not have the access tuna doors (that's what I have called them for 60 years -- unlikely to change any time soon) directly lined up to where your pilothouse doors are when opened. My concern is an accidental fall overboard.

For instance, on Seaweed, my door to the cockpit is just starboard of centerline. Once I get the tuna door cut, it will be to the port of center. Thus, if I accidentally tumbled out, I can not end up in the drink.

Now I'm a soloist, so my concerns may differ from yours. AND, one of the things I preach incessantly is:

Make absolutely sure you can re-board your boat from the water without assistance.

As a side note, three steps under the water surface are best. None of us are getting any younger. Two is fine for the kids -- or maybe none, but... I'm old, lack strength in my left side, and MUST be able to get aboard without any help. Be safe...

Oh, and congratulations on the Helmsman. Those are great looking homes.

Interesting points.

The door from the cockpit to swim step is offset to starboard. While the door from cabin to cockpit is centered. What was asked about above was two additional doors on the port and starboard sides of the cockpit.

The door option opposite the pilothouse door is tight as it is and could not be relocated. So its a take-it-or-leave-it proposition.

There is a swim ladder folded up under the swim platform. When deployed all but a few inches are underwater. A lot easier to deploy from in the water than out.

Good points though.

 

[Two Truths]

The 38H I purchased does not have boarding doors at the cockpit, and I am short and often dock the boat by myself. I use FenderSteps to help get up and down--have them on both sides. See pic. Not as good as a door, but does the trick.

 

[Stout]

I have been quoted $12k to install one side cockpit door in our boat. Not sure what they cost when a new build. If I had ordered our boat new I would have asked for a port side cockpit door at minimum. Has Helmsman given an option price per door?

 

[FWT]

The 38H I purchased does not have boarding doors at the cockpit, and I am short and often dock the boat by myself. I use FenderSteps to help get up and down--have them on both sides. See pic. Not as good as a door, but does the trick.

Good idea!

 

[FWT]

I have been quoted $12k to install one side cockpit door in our boat. Not sure what they cost when a new build. If I had ordered our boat new I would have asked for a port side cockpit door at minimum. Has Helmsman given an option price per door?

I don't think it would be appropriate to discuss the Helmsman prices, but trust me the option is significantly less than that.

 

[Nancy n Larry]

I don't think it would be appropriate to discuss the Helmsman prices, but trust me the option is significantly less than that.

AGREED!

 

[Doug_Snider]

We like carrying our dinghy on swim step davits. That makes getting to the transom door difficult from one side. We’re going with port and starboard side cockpit doors and a gunwale door at the starboard pilot house door. When we can’t dock bow in, starboard side, the FenderStep is a great option for getting from the helm to the dock on the port side. Even if you’re able to climb over the gunwale when you have to, you may have guests who are not as agile nor as comfortable doing so.

 

[Nancy n Larry]

Why would it be inappropriate to discuss new build option pricing?

It is not the buyers place to discuss pricing but the sellers privilege. Personally I feel it is inappropriate to do so and the cost of the doors is not relevant to this discussion. Certainly appreciate your viewpoint though.

 

[mikehar]

I have never thought "gee, I wish I didn't have that boarding door".

 

[Nancy n Larry]

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful comments. We have decided to go with all the doors since we have old knees and old backs. Appreciate all of your input!

 

[newt]

I ordered the Helmsman 37(Same hull as your 38) in part because of the walkarounds and side access doors. It's a great added features for soloing. Kinda disagree a little with the other commenter. It makes docking solo a real breeze. But also I have two working dogs, which was a consideration. The things we do for dogs.

Also make sure you check with Scott about putting doors in that cockpit or anywhere else. One of the reasons I went helmsman is another builder said if they did doors like that into the cockpit it would reduce the strength overall in that area.

 

[bowball]

I don't think it would be appropriate to discuss the Helmsman prices, but trust me the option is significantly less than that.

I don’t see why discussing pricing is inappropriate.

Who does that protect? Do different buyers get different prices for the same product? This is a users forum and knowledge informs, guides and protects users.

 

[bowball]

It is not the buyers place to discuss pricing but the sellers privilege. Personally I feel it is inappropriate to do so and the cost of the doors is not relevant to this discussion. Certainly appreciate your viewpoint though.

As noted above, I disagree. A buyer has just as much “right” to discuss pricing as does a “seller.” Opinions would vary perhaps too if the additional doors were $100 or $20,000 each. Now the actual poster might not want to post price for their own reasons which I wouldn’t disagree with, but I wouldn’t generalize it to “buyers” as a class.

Restating, if the poster doesn’t want to mention it for their own personal reasons that’s fine. But the manufacturer should have no issue.

I understood Helmsman not wanting in production photos posted as they provided those to the owner under that condition. And maybe, for better or wise, they didn’t want their production methods being analyzed or critiqued by others or competitors.

Pricing is completely different.

 

[Seevee]

I don’t see why discussing pricing is inappropriate.

Who does that protect? Do different buyers get different prices for the same product? This is a users forum and knowledge informs, guides and protects users.

Totally agree. Why the heck are prices so often hidden, especially on manufacturers web sites. If you're going to come close to buying or even considering it, you'll want to know the price.



The axiom "if you have to ask, you can't afford it" is a bunch of baloney. The axiom should be "you're smart enough to get the price first, to be sure you can afford it".

 

[rslifkin]

Totally agree. Why the heck are prices so often hidden, especially on manufacturers web sites. If you're going to come close to buying or even considering it, you'll want to know the price.



The axiom "if you have to ask, you can't afford it" is a bunch of baloney. The axiom should be "you're smart enough to get the price first, to be sure you can afford it".

If it's something custom that needs to be quoted every time, I get it. But if there's fairly standard pricing for an item, I hate when it's not published. It's a waste of my time and the seller's time to have to ask about pricing, wait for a response, etc. when I haven't decided to buy anything yet because I don't know the price...

 

[Nancy n Larry]

As I will say again, this thread is NOT about pricing. Maybe if you are interested in knowing about the cost of side doors, you should consider starting another thread related to that subject. We chose not disclose side door pricing for the obvious reason mentioned above. Nor do we appreciate being browbeaten for expressing our thoughts about an off topic opinion. When posing a question on this forum, it is hard to understand those who choose to exercise such a lack of civility. Not very encouraging indeed.

 

[OldDan1943]

Something not mentioned is a gangway. I had a 8ft carbon fiber gangway for my N46.
Where to mount the attaching hardware. 2 options, rail cap or outside the hull. If I mounted the hardware on the rail cap, I would need a stool to get off the gangway. I opted to mount them on the outside of the hull hoping I would not snag something. When not in use, it was secured by sliding it into a couple pieces of aluminum angle pieces and retained with thumb screws. Work fine.
I had port, stbd and stern door cut in my N46, all 3 were worth while. I should note I had a teak swim platform made and installed for my N46 so I guess I was driving a 49ft boat.

 

[Barrie]

We have a Mariner 37 PH, same as the Helmsman 38. The doors would be welcome, all four of them. We use the swim platform door mostly. Knees don't bend anymore.

 

[Spinner]

I had a side door cut into the cockpit of my 42 Nordic Tug as soon as I bought her. 4 years on, I still regard it as a great decision! Note that I already had port and starboard PH doors, which I have rigged with Fender Steps.

1. Very helpful for single hand running
2. Better than the swimstep for boarding to/from dinghy
3. Can ease access for seniors and little kids

I would have had a door installed on the port side of the cockpit but the layout didn’t work.

 

[CaptGary]

Midship doors outside the pilothouse on both sides of my Transpac 40 are the absolute best! Easy to singlehand while docking either side. From the cockpit, I just exit onto the swim platform and step off from there.

 

[Comodave]

As I will say again, this thread is NOT about pricing. Maybe if you are interested in knowing about the cost of side doors, you should consider starting another thread related to that subject. We chose not disclose side door pricing for the obvious reason mentioned above. Nor do we appreciate being browbeaten for expressing our thoughts about an off topic opinion. When posing a question on this forum, it is hard to understand those who choose to exercise such a lack of civility. Not very encouraging indeed.

What you have to understand about TF is that you may start a thread but you do not own it and, maybe, unfortunately you can’t control the direction that the thread goes unless members are breaking TF rules. If people are breaking the rules please feel free to report the thread or post and the moderators will look at it and take such action the moderators feel is appropriate. We do require members be nice to each other. But being nice is a subjective idea, so the moderators try to maintain an even hand.

If I were to build a boat I would have as many access doors/gates that are possible. None of us are getting any younger and accessibility will only become more and more of an issue as you age. And if you were to sell the boat in the future I doubt anyone will not buy the boat because it has too many access doors.

 

[OldDan1943]

On my AT34, I have hinged doors on the pilot house port and starboard and a hinged door aft in the saloon (where I drink my cognac). I stole the idea (thank you milt) for a couple of additional vertical hand rails to assist getting on board and into the cock pit from shore. I should point out 2 things. All doors have sliding down windows with screens. The new AT36 have sliding pilot house doors with windows and screens. I guess that is better. The basic AT34/36 is a very well thought out boat.

 

[Helmsman43]

Looking for advice. What are your thoughts about adding boarding doors on the starboard and port sides of a new build? Thinking of adding four, two in the cockpit (which will make 3) and a starboard and port side door midship, outside the pilot house doors. Thinking that the two added to the cockpit might be plenty. The boat already does have pretty decent access midship. Thinking 4 might be overkill? Please advise, 2022 Helmsman 38E. Thank you

Larry and Nancy,

I have a helmsman 43E being delivered in early 2022. I choose to have both sets of doors as boating on the Chesapeake has a large variance on the height of the docks depending on where you dock and the tides.

Too many times I found myself and or guest jumping up or down to get in or out of our prior boats. My thought was if I can put it in my budget I want it.

Is it absolutely necessary? No, but it is nice for anyone less mobile.

Bob

 

[BandB]

As to the doors, I've yet to ever hear a boat owner say they had too many.

Now, many builders make you sign that pricing is confidential. Otherwise, good reasons not to discuss, especially right now. They're changing constantly. Someone will hear last year's price and then get furious that they're charging 20% more, and yes, on stainless steel it may be that. Also, some buy as part of packages. Then even more of a problem is that buyers often like to brag about the great deals they made and even.....oh yes....even lie. Then the builder is in a bad situation.

 

[SteveK]

Following this thread in hopes some pictures of newly added doors are posted. Looking for ideas before I start cutting.

 

[FWT]

Following this thread in hopes some pictures of newly added doors are posted. Looking for ideas before I start cutting.

Following is a link to a Helmsman promo video. About 40 seconds in you can see the midships door open. In other shots of the boat underway you can see it closed.