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Old 08-24-2018, 11:23 AM   #61
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Full new out of water hull survey and full new mechanical (engine) survey, right? Anything less and you're cutting corners that may cost you thousands of dollars down the road.

Besides, most insurance companies require a current survey for insurance purposes.
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Old 08-24-2018, 02:51 PM   #62
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Yes full surveys of both engines and boat out of water. I am picking the survey company's myself.
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Old 08-24-2018, 02:57 PM   #63
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who are you using?
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Old 08-24-2018, 03:07 PM   #64
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Find the toughest, meanest, most knowledgeable surveyor you can find. I did and was not sorry and he (actually two of them not including the engine surveyor) didn’t find everything.
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Old 08-27-2018, 12:41 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derik View Post
I put a deposit on a 43 foot Marine Trader yesterday. I was excited about the boat but when I went down to look at it again I found some files on the boat by the helm. Inside a folder was a 2017 survey listing the boat as Fair to Poor condition and putting a value on it of 50,000.

The boat had two PO in the past 3 years one sold it to the other about two and a half years ago Feb. 2016. I was able to talk to him and he loved the boat but the wife said it had to go. He put about 20,000 into the boat. I was provided a copy of this survey. No big issues on that survey the biggest one was frozen sea cocks, and blisters. The boat was rated as good to fair condition then and valued at 72,000.

The current owner a Marine who's been relocated, sold it about a year ago but the deal fell through, I was told that the guy who was looking at the boat then had retained the survey and it wasn't available. This is the survey i found.

The Broker is busy and has a lot of boats to show daily, I don't believe he realized that he had a copy of the most recent survey since it was with all of the latest boat papers probably planning on giving it to me?? The Brokers office is right next to the boat and I don't see him as someone who could hide things and then say hello to me daily on the way to the boat.

I know of the inherent problems with the Marine Trader and this boat has a few of the symptoms but since it's in a dry climate most of the window leaks and wood damage is minimal. I really like the layout of this boat and the twin Lehmans which checked out good in the 2016 survey.

The two PO used the boat to stay on in the Marina and didn't take it out much. I am more of a boater fisherman and will use it at Sea a lot. I can do wood work and fiberglass work and know that a 50,000 dollar boat is a "project"

Here is the listing.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198.../#.W3dvlIGPLrd

Both surveys list 50 or so dime size blisters and frozen sea cocks. The most recent survey lists low freshwater pressure, Heads don't flush, weeping macerator, it is critical of things like wing nuts on the batteries and seems to be a bit nit picky but does list a few items of concern to me other than those listed above
Gland Temp of 150 Cutlass bearing slight play hull valves offline need permanently capped.

Sea Trial is Thursday and my survey will be done in a few weeks.

I am a newbie to large boats and Trawlers, give me your thoughts, should I pay for another survey or look for another boat?
When I looked at my first boat - I reviewed their "supplied survey". THEN I paid for a surveyor of my own who also had a diver go under the boat. Best money I ever spent in my life. I highly suggest you do that. You'll have peace of mind.
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Old 08-27-2018, 12:54 PM   #66
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Hi Derik,

I agree, these are not "deal breaker" items. But you have a basis upon which to start your maintenance program. Also, in my experience (over 20 years), some surveyors, thorough as they may be, are generally not great at yacht valuations.

As a yacht broker, there are no surveyors I really don't like. I expect a surveyor to be as thorough as possible, and I do not want them to miss anything. But I also want them to be experienced enough to properly explain their observations and put them into context for both the purchaser and seller.

Have fun and good luck!
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Old 08-27-2018, 01:35 PM   #67
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The seller/broker are under no obligation to give you a copy of the survey. In fact, the survey report belongs to the BUYER, not the seller. When the broker said he did not have a copy of the survey report, he was telling the truth.

If you like the boat make an offer. All offers are pending the outcome of the survey. This is your negotiating time. Either the seller fixes the items, gives you a credit to fix the items, or tells you he will not address them.

This is your decision of how you want to proceed.
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Old 08-27-2018, 01:39 PM   #68
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Not all surveyors are created equal. Find a tough, thorough one. If the broker groans when you mention the surveyor, you're on the right track. LOL. There are some brokers that just "get deals done" and are favored by selling brokers.

Be sure the broker thoroughly TESTS all the systems--that he doesn't check to see if they "power up." Spent the first year owning our boat learning what the broker missed: Washer/Dryer didn't spin, but powered up, filled with water, etc... Microwave/Convection came on, but wouldn't bake; Xantrex inverter powered up and inverted but didn't charge the batteries. Ended up costing quite a few bucks to get resolved.
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Old 08-27-2018, 02:24 PM   #69
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Couple of points from a Hatteras guy
that likes all boats.


Surveyors typically approach a survey from 3 different directions based on customers intent.

are you selling the boat
are you buying the boat
a survey for insurance purposes.


That could be why there is a big discrepancy.


Also i recommend if you do get your own survey (i would). Get your on surveyor based on recommendations from area captains etc.
Do not use the dealer are anyone associated with dealer.



Also not sure if your Hull is Fiberglass or wood but if Fiberglass
make sure you investigate blisters with a sharp knife/tool to see if there has been any reaction with the fiberglass. When the salt water penetrates the
gel coat it reacts with fiberglass almost like wood rotting. Normally with blisters still not a real big deal, you just want to make sure all the bad is cleaned out, filled and painted properly.


Good Luck
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Old 08-27-2018, 04:30 PM   #70
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Yes, the buyer pays for the survey and haul out which I did on two boats last year, one I bought and one I passed. However had a copy of the survey given to the seller for no charge, I thought that was the honorable way to do the deal. I should add that I grew up in an era where a man’s word was his bond, I made major purchases on a hand shake, unfortunately that’s not the way it’s done today. Sad.
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Old 08-27-2018, 05:44 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derik View Post
I put a deposit on a 43 foot Marine Trader yesterday. I was excited about the boat but when I went down to look at it again I found some files on the boat by the helm. Inside a folder was a 2017 survey listing the boat as Fair to Poor condition and putting a value on it of 50,000.

The boat had two PO in the past 3 years one sold it to the other about two and a half years ago Feb. 2016. I was able to talk to him and he loved the boat but the wife said it had to go. He put about 20,000 into the boat. I was provided a copy of this survey. No big issues on that survey the biggest one was frozen sea cocks, and blisters. The boat was rated as good to fair condition then and valued at 72,000.

The current owner a Marine who's been relocated, sold it about a year ago but the deal fell through, I was told that the guy who was looking at the boat then had retained the survey and it wasn't available. This is the survey i found.

The Broker is busy and has a lot of boats to show daily, I don't believe he realized that he had a copy of the most recent survey since it was with all of the latest boat papers probably planning on giving it to me?? The Brokers office is right next to the boat and I don't see him as someone who could hide things and then say hello to me daily on the way to the boat.

I know of the inherent problems with the Marine Trader and this boat has a few of the symptoms but since it's in a dry climate most of the window leaks and wood damage is minimal. I really like the layout of this boat and the twin Lehmans which checked out good in the 2016 survey.

The two PO used the boat to stay on in the Marina and didn't take it out much. I am more of a boater fisherman and will use it at Sea a lot. I can do wood work and fiberglass work and know that a 50,000 dollar boat is a "project"

Here is the listing.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198.../#.W3dvlIGPLrd

Both surveys list 50 or so dime size blisters and frozen sea cocks. The most recent survey lists low freshwater pressure, Heads don't flush, weeping macerator, it is critical of things like wing nuts on the batteries and seems to be a bit nit picky but does list a few items of concern to me other than those listed above
Gland Temp of 150 Cutlass bearing slight play hull valves offline need permanently capped.

Sea Trial is Thursday and my survey will be done in a few weeks.

I am a newbie to large boats and Trawlers, give me your thoughts, should I pay for another survey or look for another boat?
While today none of the issues seem big they will cost time and money.
Offer a low price and then work from there using your own current survey. Don't rely on some one elses. You don't know the surveyor, who hired him or etc..
If you have money and time to throw away that is one thing. But take your mental estimate and at least double it.
I have gone through two n
Boats as ND can tell you the math always seems to be at least double on material and triple on labor.
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Old 08-27-2018, 07:33 PM   #72
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Buy buy buy

however use the survey evidence as a lever to buy the boat at a reduced price. a survey is good and all....but you sound like a knowledgeable consumer and fairly handy. If you are confident in your ability to repair what needs to be done proceed.
Sea-cocks sea-cocks sea-cocks... I went to service the ones on my Tollycraft and I was alarmed at how much galvanic corrosion had eaten away at the gate valves and galvanized nipples. Ya I know eh?
The bronze intake scoops were literally untouched and were quite reusable. I spent beau-coup $$$ buying bronze sea-cocks with remote handles.
I cant talk enough about the effects of galvanic corrosion. Iff I had launched the boat in my ignorance, I'd have sunk 15 feet from the dock....or worse...2 miles out.
For you to do your own inspection and familiarize yourself with all the systems on the boat will be a good exercise for you in your role as an owner.
I have learned so much doing my own work over the years. You will as well!

Good luck!
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Old 08-27-2018, 08:35 PM   #73
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Looks like a very nice boat. Seatrial done yet? Run it hard. That will tell you a lot. I like it
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Old 08-28-2018, 02:52 AM   #74
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Joining this thread to see how your survey and sea trial goes. I am in a slightly similar position (overseas working, found a boat I like online, have not seen her yet, and have not made an offer, but am interested). So, I have engaged a surveyor to do an out-of-water survey, and sea trial before I make an offer. I had to lean on the agent a bit to be able to do this; the agent wanted an offer first. So far, so good.

I am paying for slipping and the survey/sea trial myself, so trying to be as objective as possible.

I will most definitely be directing the surveyor to be ruthless re. through-hull fittings; she is a 35-year-old steel boat. If the survey comes back positively, then I will make an offer; that offer is still contingent on my inspection and sea trial.

Over here, you need a survey that addresses all the things insurance companies what to know about in order to buy insurance, so doing it this way, I believe I have covered all I can before inspecting her myself. Good luck with your boat!
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Old 08-28-2018, 10:38 PM   #75
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That's a beautiful boat and at $50,000 it could be a good deal. However, it always concerns me when there are no photos of the engine room. You can tell a lot about a boat by looking at the engine room. If you decide to go forward with the deal, make sure you have a significant budget for replacements and repairs.

In 2012 when the boat market was still very depressed, I bought a 1995 Rosborough 35 ft trawler that surveyed very well (both my survey and a survey 2 years prior). The asking price was $95,000 and I bought the boat for $77,000. The prior owner had purchased the boat two years before for $195,000. Almost immediately after he bought the boat, he had to replace the Diesel tanks and the water tanks. That required pulling the engine and turned out to be a $22,000 job. You definitely need to get your surveyor to focus on the condition of the tanks because replacement is darned expensive. After a few more expenses, the previous owner understood the concept that a boat is a hole in the water to pour money into. He just wanted to cut his losses and get out, so I was able to buy the boat for a good price.

Even though the boat surveyed well, it was a 17 year old boat when I bought it and equipment has a limited life span. Within the first year of ownership, I had to replace the 3-8D batteries, the battery charger, the inverter, the auto pilot, the radar, the bow thruster, two bilge pumps, and the AC unit. I also had to replace some of the other electronics because they were just obsolete. Over the first year of ownership, I spent over $21,000 on replacements and repairs and that doesn't include $3,500 for a haul-out, bottom job, prop refurbishment, etc. After that painful first year, the cost got better. I typically spend between $5,000 and $7,000 per year on maintenance and equipment replacement. This year, the bimini and canvas covers are reaching their end of life and that will be a big expense.

My point is that boats tend to be expensive to maintain and a 33 year-old boat will have things that are reaching their end of life or are becoming obsolete. We also ran into things that the surveyor didn't find, like the hydraulic steering system. We had to replace the steering cylinder and several of the hoses that had rubbed due to vibration. Just make sure you set aside significant $ for maintenance, repairs, and replacements.

Good luck with the deal.
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Old 08-29-2018, 01:38 AM   #76
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Rosborough wrote:

Quote:
However, it always concerns me when there are no photos of the engine room.
If an advertisement does not show the engine room (and the batteries) usually I look no further or, if I really like it, I ask for those pictures (and an image of the back of the switch board). Many, many hours of work can be hidden there.
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Old 08-29-2018, 06:05 PM   #77
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Lotsa boat for 50K were the steel fuel taks replaced??
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Old 08-30-2018, 08:54 AM   #78
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The engines look great, and the engine bilge is very clean. Yes it has the original fuel tanks but there appears to be enough room to cut them out and put in smaller tanks without having to remove the engines. I am having the engine survey done first (next week).

The boat was mostly a live aboard and the previous owners were into hosting parties and having a lot of people on the boat while it sat or ran up the bay. Their priorities were different than mine thus most photos show patio furniture and amenities that aren't important to me. I don't believe they were hiding anything with the photos just taking photos of what was important to them.
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Old 08-30-2018, 09:30 PM   #79
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Derik, Believe the year manufactured, model, care over the years, and total hours (and routine maintenance on the engines) are all critical factors . . . not just cosmetics. There should be a complete log book somewhere, too.
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Old 09-04-2018, 09:20 AM   #80
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I have Quality Marine doing the engine survey this week and Tim Simms is doing the boat survey on the 11th. Oil samples will be taken of the engines and Trans.
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