Shoring up

[rslifkin]

For those contemplating using their engines as a potential pumping resource(s)...be keen to have a great strainer on that secondary intake and realize that many smaller trawler engines really don't have much pumping capacity with the risk of overtemping an engine.

Agreed. Unless you've got big engines with big raw water pumps and the tee is before the strainer, it's probably better to just mount a big belt driven pump with a clutch to the engine(s).

 

[anduril]

offshore collision kit

in addition to my Milwaukee cordless drill and saws-all, with fresh and backup lithium batteries, life raft, ditch kit and EPIRB

... hitting a submerged container before you see it is a distinct, though low probability event... much better to be in your boat with all your supplies than in a rubber raft waiting for the coast-guard

collision control bag Contents:
1 large Waterproof duffel 1x
tru plug 1x
Collision mat with lines 2x
1 Silicone Sealing Tape, yellow 1x
1 Heavy Duty Cloth Duct Tape, 10 yds, 2 inches 1x
1 Gorilla Tape, 10 yds, 1 inches 1x
1 roll polyken white tape 1x
Folding Saw 1x
1 Cable Ties, 14" Long (qty 25) 1x
1 Yachtsman Knife with Marline Spike and Shackle Key 1x
1 POW-R Patch, 4 X 6" 2x
1 POW-R Wrap, 2" X 48" (3/4" Pipe) 1x
STIC-O-STEEL, 2 Oz Tube 2x
Devcon steep epoxy putty 1x
fiberglass repair kit- water activated 3" x 9 feet 1x
1 Oakum, Brown Oiled, 1 # Bag 1x
1 Tarred Marlin, 4 oz. 1x
ace bandages, 3" roll 2x
1 Softwood Plugs, Various sizes (qty 4) 1x
Softwood Plugs, 1.5" x 2 1x
Softwood Plugs, 3/4" x 3 1x
Softwood Plugs, 1.5" x 3 1x
Neoprene Sheet, 12x12 2x
Neoprene Sheet, 8x6. 2x
hack saw blades, 2 coarse, 2 fine 32T and 18T
1/4 plywood drilled with holes 4x
PK screws, #10 1.25 lg, bag of 100 1x
PK screws, #10 1.00 LG., bag of 100 1x
plywood with gasket - crash boards for all hatches and port-lights 2x
plywood battons for crash boards 8x
rubber bike tube 1x
clamps 3x small 1x long carpenter clamp 1x
west system epoxy and caulk gun 1x
Fast cure caulk 1x
Ryobi saw with blades- short blades 10x 1x
2 Wedges, 2 X 4" X 8" 1x
hack saw frame- ships supply ? Or store in collision bag 1x
1 Hand Ax 1x
1Pelican waterptoof Flashlight with spare batteries (AA) 1x
2 SAE 20 Stainless Steel Hose Clamp ( 1.25 - 1.75 ) 1x
2 SAE 36 Stainless Steel Hose Clamp (1.75 - 2.75) 1x
2 SAE 52 Stainless Steel Hose Clamp (2.75 - 3.75) 1x
2 SAE 80 Stainless Steel Hose Clamp (4 - 5.5) 1x
2 SAE 104 Stainless Steel Hose Clamp ( 5.5 - 7 ) 1x
1 Flexible Hose Clamp Driver 1x
1 Plywood Block (1/2" X 8" X 10")" 1x
1 Copper Sheet, .021" X 5" X 7" 1x
1 Split Fire Hose, 1 1/2" X 12" 1x

 

[anduril]

1) get the engine started ( I am a sailor) ,
2) start the 3000 gph bilge pump with strainer \ 2-2.5 inch hose also installed at engine level
3) get out the collision kit ( see above )
4) get to work

 

[CapnCrunch]

Agreed. Unless you've got big engines with big raw water pumps and the tee is before the strainer, it's probably better to just mount a big belt driven pump with a clutch to the engine(s).

It took only a few minutes for my Perkins 4.236 to pump roughly 30 gallons of water out of my bilge. The engine didn't run long enough to get to running temp, but the amount of water coming out of the exhaust seemed normal.

That being said, if I am in a situation where I NEED that extra pumping capacity, I'll happily rely on the probability that the screen over the end of the hose is more than sufficient to keep out any potentially damaging detritus. The bigger worry would be that system would work too well and run itself out of water. Besides, the water passages in those cooling systems are not that small so anything that could get through the screen would not likely clog the cooling system.

 

[Ralsy]

Found this. Not sure if anyone has used this.
Hull Survivor

 

[rslifkin]

It took only a few minutes for my Perkins 4.236 to pump roughly 30 gallons of water out of my bilge. The engine didn't run long enough to get to running temp, but the amount of water coming out of the exhaust seemed normal.

That being said, if I am in a situation where I NEED that extra pumping capacity, I'll happily rely on the probability that the screen over the end of the hose is more than sufficient to keep out any potentially damaging detritus. The bigger worry would be that system would work too well and run itself out of water. Besides, the water passages in those cooling systems are not that small so anything that could get through the screen would not likely clog the cooling system.

On my engines, the raw water system is rated to move 30 gpm, or 1800 gph. But that's at pretty high RPM, which isn't likely in an emergency situation (unless I take an engine out of gear and rev it way up). So for that amount of flow, I might as well just throw another Rule 3700 in the bilge, as even if it's only pushing 50% of rated output in real-world conditions, that's 1850 gph, or slightly more than one of my engines can do at best.

 

[Lou_tribal]

A good friend of mine, who is an experienced mariner, told me that I should always carry large trash bags aboard. In case of any breach, plunge under the boat, stick a large plastic bag over the hull with a towel over it and it will stick to the hull with water pressure and save you some precious time.
Never tried it but I trust his experience in the situation he was in navy and rescue.
If that does work, in real emergency, I can stick my wife's head in the hole but I will need to decide to either lose my wife or lose my boat lol.

L

 

[Ralsy]

Mate, hmmm good idea. Not sure if my wife's head would fit. I guess if the hole was big enough it would fit. Then again if you're looking for something big and a little more flexible, some that would mold its self to the shape of the hole then I think my wife's ass would suit better. ������

 

[Ralsy]

Something

 

[CapnCrunch]

On my engines, the raw water system is rated to move 30 gpm, or 1800 gph. But that's at pretty high RPM, which isn't likely in an emergency situation (unless I take an engine out of gear and rev it way up). So for that amount of flow, I might as well just throw another Rule 3700 in the bilge, as even if it's only pushing 50% of rated output in real-world conditions, that's 1850 gph, or slightly more than one of my engines can do at best.

It occurs to me that I didn't make it clear that a system like I described is only an auxiliary/back-up to a boat's normal bilge pump system. I recently watched a YouTube video channel (Sailing Soairse) where the couple was three days from land when their sailboat developed a crack in the hull in a very difficult place to reach. Over the next two days, both their DC and manual bilge pumps quit working and they were nearly exhausted from hand baling. They finally had to issue a pan-pan call and I couldn't help but think how useful my system would have been in their situation.


At any rate, adding another bilge pump would require running more circuitry, more hose and another hole in the hull - which, in itself, is another potential leak.

 

[menzies]

The original post was about shoring, not pumping. So it is interesting that the majority on here are relying on removing more water than is coming in rather than shoring.

 

[rslifkin]

The original post was about shoring, not pumping. So it is interesting that the majority on here are relying on removing more water than is coming in rather than shoring.

They go hand in hand. The better your pumps can keep up with the leak, the less water you'll be working in while trying to do something about the leak (which can also make it easier to see / find the source of the water). And the more time you have to put together an effective patch. Plus, if you have lots of pump capacity, then they won't be running flat out to keep up with the slowed but not necessarily stopped leak, which reduces the risk of pump failure and being back to square 1.

 

[psneeld]

It's called damage control for a reason...it's not either or.

 

[menzies]

They go hand in hand. The better your pumps can keep up with the leak, the less water you'll be working in while trying to do something about the leak (which can also make it easier to see / find the source of the water). And the more time you have to put together an effective patch. Plus, if you have lots of pump capacity, then they won't be running flat out to keep up with the slowed but not necessarily stopped leak, which reduces the risk of pump failure and being back to square 1.

Except the question asked was what supplies do you keep on board for shoring. Read the posts again - no mention of shoring abilities or products in many of the posts.

 

[Tangler]

All I’ve got is some wooden plugs,various sizes and 2 bilge pumps...hope I don’t hit anything! The plugs also come in handy when I’ve doing work on hoses ...currently plugging my mascerator pump hoses while getting a replacement...

 

[OldDan1943]

A quick question, please. How many 'first hand' experience have you experienced?
Yes, be reasonably prepared but, dont dwell on it.....
In my case, a bilge pump every compartment plus one spare pump with hose long enough to reach the deck. Why pump against water pressure when you can flood the deck.
The standard collection of wooden plugs, some wax toilet seals to mold as necessary, extra hoses, clamps etc.

 

[CapnCrunch]

The original post was about shoring, not pumping. So it is interesting that the majority on here are relying on removing more water than is coming in rather than shoring.

If you ever discover that there's a foot of water in your bilge, you'll understand why pumping is germane to the topic of shoring up. Hopefully you will never need such knowledge!

 

[rsn48]

A good friend of mine, who is an experienced mariner, told me that I should always carry large trash bags aboard. In case of any breach, plunge under the boat, stick a large plastic bag over the hull with a towel over it and it will stick to the hull with water pressure and save you some precious time.
Never tried it but I trust his experience in the situation he was in navy and rescue.

A few have eluded to some kind of repair along these lines, slipping something over the hole and the water pressure keeping the item in place. But on my boat, and it really isn't anything large compare to many trawlers, etc here, getting something down to that hole if the hole is more under the hull than on the side, would be an issue.

 

[OldDan1943]

The US Navy would teach, getting the flood control canvas outside hull.... plugging the hole from the outside, using seawater pressure against the hull.

 

[psneeld]

The water pressure involved with ships is WAYYYYY different than what most of us will see as the depth underwater of the hole will be significantly less...thus less pressure.


Sure.... if the hole is more than 2-3 feet the pressure starts to go up dramatically...but most of our damage control won't be that.


Even then, on most glass boats an underwater strike may likely to wind up with a crack versus a hole, which in some ways is harder to deal with, but that's where good pumping capacity is key.

 

[menzies]

If you ever discover that there's a foot of water in your bilge, you'll understand why pumping is germane to the topic of shoring up. Hopefully you will never need such knowledge!

I get that. But he asked what shoring supplies people have on board. I was pointing out that I wasn't seeing much, if any, of that.

 

[menzies]

With a lot of these answers it seems that many of you are prepared to get into the water to apply something underwater to the outside of the boat. How many of you believe you are physically fit enough to do that, especially in conditions that may not be benign?

 

[rslifkin]

I'd be able to get into the water given reasonable conditions, but what I'd be able to do would depend a lot on where the damage is on the boat.

 

[OldDan1943]

spare hose length of the necessary diameter and hose clamps, wax seal for a toilet, maybe one or two 1/4 inch pieces of plywood to bend over the hole, a length of 1x1 to hold the plywood in place.
Your insurance policy, an auto inflated raft, PFDs, a water resistant VHF. Ideally, your rib will be available too.
Let's not try and be heroic.

 

[O C Diver]

I don't carry specific hole plugging material. Have lots of stuff that could be shoved in the hole in a pinch.

Did have an experience with a hull hole. Had a rust pocket in an inconspicuous spot on a steel hull 40' boat open off of Diamond Shoals, NC. Big bilge pumps are your friend. Contrary to all common sense, I enlarged the hole to a little bigger than 1/2". Took a stainless steel bolt, lock nut, 2 fender washers, and some 5200, and sealed the hole. Metal was good around the hole, so left it in place for a month until winter haulout. Made for amusing conversation at the travel lift.

As I don't cross oceans other than Lake Superior, I consider the risk to far down the scale to obsess over. Only have 2 through hulls below the waterline, both new in 2015. All transducers are 2015 or newer and flush to the hull. Have enough pumps to keep up with a failed dripless stuffing box. Have a solid fiberglass hull below the waterline and only travel at 7 knots. Have a dinghy and a life raft.

Being struck by lightning, that's what I think is more likely.

Ted

 

[psneeld]

If you don't get into the water in some situations to stop the sinking, you may be getting into the water eventually anyhow.


And please...I have been involved with enough sinkings and studied 1000 times more to know it happens.


If it's a small leak that pumps keep up ith, no big deal. If it slightly exceeds your pumps you may be in elbow deep or knee deep water to find and slow the leak. Now if it's that much and you are getting the crap beat out of you by sea...many here would be moments away from abandoning ship if they have a decent dingy or liferaft and take their chances.


Those offshore guys who don't want to lose their primary survival vessel (the mothership) ...they better be prepared to dive under the boat...but in reality...it's the rare case of a major holing and if the seas are bad...probably a bad idea anyway.

 

[ghost]

I carry toilet bowl rings and have a trash pump under the flybridge.

What about practice?

I’ve fortunately never had to save my own boat in a stressful situation, but I’d have been in other life threatening situations, where training and planning resulted in a non event. Late night bar story and nothing further, which is the end goal. So I know how important intentional training is.

I just know that what we are practicing ourselves to react is how we are going to react when real fear strikes. How will your logic help you when somebody is screaming, crying, pleading with pure dumb emotion? Worse if you know that person and can’t instinctively hate them in the moment.

Better yet, combine the emotion with the fear and enter a situation that unfolds really really quickly. I had two boats come on the radio about 45 minutes away from me in Oak Harbor wanting to know how to get into the harbor. The channel was running an honest 6 foot, so they put their laptops away so they would not get damaged and now without charts. Almost immediately one reports hitting rocks. Then the other. Dumb things happen when you get scared. They tear out their propellers and one boat starts sinking. This playing out over 16. Fearing that they will be sucked under because they saw that in a movie somewhere, they jump in the 50f water instead of waiting for the boat to sink fully, thinking they have to swim away from the still above water boat. The other boat launches a dingy and the wife is screaming and crying over 16 that her husband can’t pull them up onto the dingy. Terrifying. Eventually he gets them on board, picks up his wife and they reach the harbor unharmed in literally 5 minutes. I’m still 25 minutes away by the time they self rescue and wind up with no more than a frightening story on the radio.

The only point here, if you don’t practice, you won’t respond like you think you will now. Fear makes you stupid as a rock. Hell I’ve wished I was as smart as a rock a time or two, would have been an improvement.

 

[Shrew]

I found these a few years ago. They might have posted in an old thread (I didn't look )

 

[Ralsy]

Informative videos. Thanks for posting @Shrew. Would have been nice to see them use the ,"Stay afloat instant plug seal" after the shoring with the damp course or sail.

 

[rsn48]

My problem with the above holed boat video is that there the guys at dockside in benign conditions. If you are a west coaster, imagine your boat has just hit a log (as did a trawler just outside of Nanaimo a few months ago) in not great ocean conditions. I'd like to see them duplicate their hole fix in 20 + knot winds and significant wave action as found in the Strait of Georgia.