Shipping: Deck Cradle or Float-on/Float-off?

[mvweebles]

Looking to have my Willard 36 shipped from Ensenada MX to Florida. I have two choices:

1. Deck Freight - weld a cradle to the deck of a ship, boat is cradled (SevenStar).
2. FloFlo - Float-on/Float-off. Ship submerges, boats are floated on and onto bunks (DYI Transport).​

I am told DYI and Sevenstar are sister companies. Any good/negative on either the transport (deck vs FloFlo) or the companies?

Thanks in advance

Peter

 

[sledge]

Peter,
I did the deck freight option with Sevenstar a couple years ago from Victoria BC to Florida and overall had a pretty good experience.
If you're loading and off-loading yourself as I did, the challenges are:
1. departure date and time is a moving target and remains an approximation until you're within a couple weeks, so you might end up hanging around the departure site a bit longer than expected.
2. Our departure time ended up being after sunset one evening so we loaded in the dark, though the cargo ship was lit up pretty well. At a designated time you cruise over to the side of the cargo ship, they throw down long lines, give you time to shut down systems and batteries and close up the boat, then you get off and they hoist it up and handle it all from there and they provide the cradle.
3. She really needs a bath when she arrives; there was salt evidence everywhere, even on the underside of the cockpit overhang(!), though we went a longer distance than what you're doing. Some people choose to fully plastic wrap their vessel for this journey, not sure if its worth the cost....
4. Destination arrival is a bit easier because of course you can use an AIS vessel tracker site to monitor the cargo ship progress. Once your arrival time is set, you follow the reverse procedure. a small craft takes you to the side of the ship when they lower your boat. they give you time to open it up, switch batteries on, start her up, and away you go.

I've heard of the float-on/float-off thing but i cannot speak to DYI or their relationship to Sevenstar. Let me know if there's any other specifics I can try to answer for you.

 

[Portage_Bay]

I've used Seven Star from Rotterdam to West Palm Beach then West Palm to Victoria BC. Overall a very good experience. Seldge's experience matches mine. Though I didn't have a firm schedule until about 48 hrs before, even upon arrival. The ship arrived at Victoria anchorage 5 days before unload at the pier.

Note that you will pay in advance and if you miss your scheduled load the entire amount is forfeit.

Last time I looked into it Splielthoff was the parent company of both.

I don't know if it's typical but I was dealing with a broker, not the shipping company, even though he listed his service under Seven Star's name. I found I did not have much control over anything. Even the original European shipping port changed from week to week.

 

[Caphenning]

Looking to have my Willard 36 shipped from Ensenada MX to Florida. I have two choices:

1. Deck Freight - weld a cradle to the deck of a ship, boat is cradled (SevenStar).
2. FloFlo - Float-on/Float-off. Ship submerges, boats are floated on and onto bunks (DYI Transport).​

I am told DYI and Sevenstar are sister companies. Any good/negative on either the transport (deck vs FloFlo) or the companies?

Thanks in advance

Peter

They all are a deck cradle system for the ride, the difference is in how they load them, crane on or float on.

Professionally I tend to use United Yacht Transport because they give me the best prices and that’s what my clients want. They crane on to heavy lift ships that typically have the holds full of grain. Both ways have their issues, but generally both are just fine.

The more critical question when shipping boats is “Do I shrink wrap or not?” I no longer use shrink wrap because getting the tape off is more work than cleaning; and I don’t recommend using it on a boat with paint as the last time I used it at the owners request, when we peeled the tape it took the paint with it, and that was not covered damage by the shipper, and the owner’s deductible was high enough it wasn’t worth a claim, so that basically added $30,000 and 3 months to the delivery schedule. If you have Gelcoat it’s not going to damage it, but typically I end up having to buff out the boat to get it looking right again.

What I do is use Collenite 845 Insulator wax and put the thinnest of films on all the shiny surfaces, and then when we get to the dock at the far end give it a wash down with hot water, and everything ends up clean and shiny with the minimum of touch up polishing required.

 

[mvweebles]

Thanks all - Caphenning's comments on not shrink-wrapping make a lot of sense to me so I especially appreciate that.

I talked to United Yacht. They are a bit more flexible as they have sailing dates every 6-weeks or so. Since I am not 100% certain when my boat will be ready to go, it's probably the best bet for me.

For posterity, as of July 31 2020 for shipping from Ensenada to Fort Lauderdale FL area:

• United Yacht: $16,500 with insurance. Some flexibility to reschedule with adequate notice.
• Sevenstar - effectively one sailing in November $17,500 (quote I received last year was $16,000).
• DYI - February sailing. Float on/off ("FloFlo"). $18,500

Thanks again!

Peter

 

[Frosty]

What I do is use Collenite 845 Insulator wax and put the thinnest of films on all the shiny surfaces, and then when we get to the dock at the far end give it a wash down with hot water, and everything ends up clean and shiny with the minimum of touch up polishing required.

Are you saying you wipe the wax on, but then leave it "raw" for the transport (i.e. you don't do the "buff" stage but leave it in the haze stage)? And then the hot water washdown effectively melts it off and all is clean?

I just want to clarify to avoid the nightmare of baked on, concrete like wax.

Thanks,
Frosty

 

[Caphenning]

Are you saying you wipe the wax on, but then leave it "raw" for the transport (i.e. you don't do the "buff" stage but leave it in the haze stage)? And then the hot water washdown effectively melts it off and all is clean?

I just want to clarify to avoid the nightmare of baked on, concrete like wax.

Thanks,
Frosty

Your understanding is correct. Remember, thinnest film. You start with a damp applicator pad and a half dollar dollop of wax squeezed and rubbed into the pad. You should just have a haze.

There is no baked on wax hot water doesn’t make easy work of. If you rent a steam cleaner pressure washer it’s fast as hell and polishes up beautiful.

 

[Frosty]

Thanks for the additional detail. I'm going to save that idea for future reference.

 

[twistedtree]

Your understanding is correct. Remember, thinnest film. You start with a damp applicator pad and a half dollar dollop of wax squeezed and rubbed into the pad. You should just have a haze.

There is no baked on wax hot water doesn’t make easy work of. If you rent a steam cleaner pressure washer it’s fast as hell and polishes up beautiful.

After trying many different methods, this is how new Nordhanvs are all shipped.

 

[ScottC]

Your understanding is correct. Remember, thinnest film. You start with a damp applicator pad and a half dollar dollop of wax squeezed and rubbed into the pad. You should just have a haze.

There is no baked on wax hot water doesn’t make easy work of. If you rent a steam cleaner pressure washer it’s fast as hell and polishes up beautiful.

I have used Collinite 845 insulator wax for years. Also 885 Fleetwax. First on cars, when I lived in the city where it was manufactured - Utica, NY. I've tried others, but have always come back to the Collinite. I agree, it's absolutely the best. Have never heard of leaving it on in "raw" form before, but will keep this in mind as we will likely have some "shipping" in our future. Have been dreaming about the "The Great Loop" someday and have found shipping our 33' boat would be about $12k-$14k from Bremerhaven Germany to some port on the east coast US. Challenge is trying to keep it in the US 18 months before shipping it back without getting tangled up in duty/tax/registration issues. I suspect charter is an option, but I REALLY would prefer to do such a trip in our own boat.

 

[ScottC]

Thanks all - Caphenning's comments on not shrink-wrapping make a lot of sense to me so I especially appreciate that.

I talked to United Yacht. They are a bit more flexible as they have sailing dates every 6-weeks or so. Since I am not 100% certain when my boat will be ready to go, it's probably the best bet for me.

For posterity, as of July 31 2020 for shipping from Ensenada to Fort Lauderdale FL area:

• United Yacht: $16,500 with insurance. Some flexibility to reschedule with adequate notice.
• Sevenstar - effectively one sailing in November $17,500 (quote I received last year was $16,000).
• DYI - February sailing. Float on/off ("FloFlo"). $18,500

Thanks again!

Peter

I'm going to ask probably a really dumb question of you, Peter. Did you consider the Panama canal route? Is it even an option for pleasure boats?? I've been through the canal on a cruise ship...and I know the big ships pay an obscene amount of money to transit the canal. Does the canal even take pleasure boats? And if so, do you have any idea what the costs are like??

 

[Hippocampus]

Biggest thing for the canal is whether you’re over/under 50’ overall. They measure. If even being 1” over means big bucks. My boat was designed to be just under by having dinghy lift arms rotate in Although 46’ with sprit and davit rotated 49’ 9”.
Boat is currently in transit from St. Lucia to Newport RI. Cost $25k. Then add in customs brokers at both ends. Additional costs from not being at loading looking at ~$27-8k. Won’t ship again if it can be avoided. Passage easier and less stressful. With current weather pick was moved 2 days forward (makes for a scramble getting ready) and current 5 days late due to hurricane. Using Sea Steamer a Seven Seas ship.

 

[Swfla]

Thanks all - Caphenning's comments on not shrink-wrapping make a lot of sense to me so I especially appreciate that.

I talked to United Yacht. They are a bit more flexible as they have sailing dates every 6-weeks or so. Since I am not 100% certain when my boat will be ready to go, it's probably the best bet for me.

For posterity, as of July 31 2020 for shipping from Ensenada to Fort Lauderdale FL area:

• United Yacht: $16,500 with insurance. Some flexibility to reschedule with adequate notice.
• Sevenstar - effectively one sailing in November $17,500 (quote I received last year was $16,000).
• DYI - February sailing. Float on/off ("FloFlo"). $18,500

Thanks again!

Peter

A great baseline on prices for buying a boat outside your home state. Many more choices if one is willing to pay shipping. Trucking often requires fly bridge removal, opening up a potential can of worms. Also, it means one can purchase a local boat for $18k than a shipped vessel. The whole concept is obvious but having a dollar figure is more than helpful. Thankyou.

 

[Swfla]

From Yachtingworld website article about transiting Panama Canal, Feb, 2019. "The biggest variable is based on the size of your boat. Under 50ft, the transit toll is $800. For boats 50-80ft, the fee is $1,300". There are other fees which are listed in the article. Worth a read. https://www.yachtingworld.com/pract...nama-canal-everything-you-need-to-know-119045

 

[ScottC]

From Yachtingworld website article about transiting Panama Canal, Feb, 2019. "The biggest variable is based on the size of your boat. Under 50ft, the transit toll is $800. For boats 50-80ft, the fee is $1,300". There are other fees which are listed in the article. Worth a read. https://www.yachtingworld.com/pract...nama-canal-everything-you-need-to-know-119045

Thanks, Swfla. Sounds quite reasonable, actuarlly...considering the options.

 

[mvweebles]

I'm going to ask probably a really dumb question of you, Peter. Did you consider the Panama canal route? Is it even an option for pleasure boats?? I've been through the canal on a cruise ship...and I know the big ships pay an obscene amount of money to transit the canal. Does the canal even take pleasure boats? And if so, do you have any idea what the costs are like??

I absolutely did consider. When I was delivering boats, I went through the Canal twice. I really wanted to return and take my time as I passed by many places. My last trip was 25 days from Dana Point to Ft Lauderdale, a very fast transit for 4500 nms. I spent 36 hours in Acapulco, and about 48 hours in Panama City. My wife and I planned to retire this year. And make the trip with an open ended itinerary. Frankly, if timing was right I wanted to run up to the PNW for the summer season, another place I've delivered countless boats to but never explored.

But a few things changed the plan. First, refit on boat is running woeful late due to add-ons and covid shut down. Second, when covid reared its head in March, I got a bit scared when my stock portfolio tanked. I remembered 2008 all too well. Finally, I was offered a super job that would fill the gap. So we decided to hold off. My 401k has recovered (and then some), my house looks like it should sell quickly when ready in a couple months, and I'm wondering if I made the right choice.

We now live in Florida. I have a slip here and I'd really, really like to return to the Bahamas. I'd also like to head down to Rio Dulce, so it just made sense to finish the boat refit, then put her on a ship and bring her to Florida.

So a somewhat long explanation that we could have used the $17k for shipping and cruised for 6 months, but that wouldn't start for a while. In the end, there are many places we want to see, but really, we're just ready to be gone. Destination is less important than stowing the docklines in favor of the anchor rode. Fastest way for us to do that now is to ship her to Florida.

Boats do funny things to your pocketbook and sensibility. We've owned Weebles for 22 years. Deciding to refit her is the single most financially irrational decision in my life, and I've made some doozies. But here we are: staring-down 60 years old and there's no denying there's more highway in the rear view mirror than ahead of us. Time to fire up the Perkins and get going.

Peter

 

[ScottC]

Boats do funny things to your pocketbook and sensibility. We've owned Weebles for 22 years. Deciding to refit her is the single most financially irrational decision in my life, and I've made some doozies. But here we are: staring-down 60 years old and there's no denying there's more highway in the rear view mirror than ahead of us. Time to fire up the Perkins and get going.
Peter

Thanks, Peter. I'm sorry - it wasn't really my intent to try to make you justify the decision. I guess I was just more curious as to whether it could be done in a pleasure boat. Now I know.



I think I well understand your desire to stick with the boat you've had for 22 years. We've had ours for 10 and I think it took me 7 of those 10 years to fully understand it and upgrade/modify/equip/accessorize it to just the way we want it. I read threads on this forum about people that seem to change boats every 3-4 years and just can't get my head around the "overhead" of doing this.



I wish you the best of luck with the shipping and re-fitting!

 

[mvweebles]

Thanks, Peter. I'm sorry - it wasn't really my intent to try to make you justify the decision. I guess I was just more curious as to whether it could be done in a pleasure boat. Now I know.



I think I well understand your desire to stick with the boat you've had for 22 years. We've had ours for 10 and I think it took me 7 of those 10 years to fully understand it and upgrade/modify/equip/accessorize it to just the way we want it. I read threads on this forum about people that seem to change boats every 3-4 years and just can't get my head around the "overhead" of doing this.



I wish you the best of luck with the shipping and re-fitting!

Hey Scott. Nothing in your question compelled me to answer in depth. I thought it might be interesting for others, and threads like this with shipping costs are daily like to pop up on a search down the road. So it's a pay-it-forward thing

There is a bond that happens with the same boat. I've been moderator of the Willard Boat Owners forum for something like 24 years. I have pictures of Weebles when she was launched in 1970, and met the owner of Willard who purchased the company in the 1970s based on trips to Baja aboard our boat with the original owner. I recently traded notes with his son who is considering buying an older Willard to restore. There's a lot of history to a boat. And it sort of grew on us.

Best success with your next 10 years. I hope you're past the 5-foot-itis phase.

Peter

 

[Fletcher500]

Sounds like you have a good plan in place. If you get the AIS information on the ship, you can monitor its travels. I followed ours closely and knew when it was getting ready to transit the canal. I also had the canal webcams bookmarked. True story; I was driving down the 5 Freeway on my Ipad using a hotspot [wife driving] and got a screen shot of the ship with our boat on the bow in shrink wrap when it was in one of the locks. The photo is in my album on here. Hope you have some great times cruising on your boat.

 

[Ken E.]

I used Yacht Path 15 years ago, no longer in business, from Ensenada to Nanaimo BC. They used the deck load method. The tab, all in with insurance, taxes, gratuities was around $12k. There were no problems with the shipment other than what's being discussed above.....the boat was FILTHY, covered with heavy salt scale, diesel soot,....it was bad. If I ever did it again, I would somehow cover the boat.

 

[Caphenning]

I have used Collinite 845 insulator wax for years. Also 885 Fleetwax. First on cars, when I lived in the city where it was manufactured - Utica, NY. I've tried others, but have always come back to the Collinite. I agree, it's absolutely the best. Have never heard of leaving it on in "raw" form before, but will keep this in mind as we will likely have some "shipping" in our future. Have been dreaming about the "The Great Loop" someday and have found shipping our 33' boat would be about $12k-$14k from Bremerhaven Germany to some port on the east coast US. Challenge is trying to keep it in the US 18 months before shipping it back without getting tangled up in duty/tax/registration issues. I suspect charter is an option, but I REALLY would prefer to do such a trip in our own boat.

Plan to hit Florida in the middle of the trip and just jump over to the Bahamas for a few weeks and come back with your clock reset. Don’t miss Staniel Cay, my favorite place in the Bahamas.

 

[Forever Friday]

Shipping via Freighter

Sledge is spot-on with his description of how this type of transport works...especially the fact that the departure date is a "constantly moving target." We recently had our American Tug 34 shipped from Port Everglades (Fort Lauderdale, FL) to Nanaimo, BC (just north of Victoria). Shipping date was originally scheduled for week of March 14, but kept getting pushed back to an actual departure in mid-April. We had finished the Loop a few months earlier and had been wandering up & down the east Florida coast. The delays are difficult to deal with--when you live aboard--in that marinas are pricey in the Lauderdale area & good anchorages are few. We spent quite a while anchored in Sunrise Bay, just off of the ICW. We, too, used United Yacht Transport, and were able to get a few thousand dollar discount by putting 25% down, 90 days in advance. Re boats getting really salty & filthy on the voyage--a lot depends on where you are placed on the ship. While in Sunrise, we made friends with a 44' sailboat owner who was shipping his boat to Victoria, BC. His boat was shipped a month earlier than ours, and he stated he had a salt encrusted mast...all the way up to the upper spreaders. He had been loaded near the bow of the ship. Where you get loaded, and when, is simply the luck of the draw. On our day, we were told to proceed to a staging area to await our loading call & instructions. Immediately prior to reaching our staging area, and about 15 minutes early, we were called and instructed to pull alongside the freighter at the rear-most crane. Talk about joy...this location was furthest aft, just forward of the bridge house. We were nestled between larger boats (we were the smallest on board) and were relatively protected from spray. Our boat arrived in pretty decent shape...but did have a few specs of surface rust on the non-skid. Was not too difficult to bleach the stains out. I cannot imagine thinking about shrink wrapping your boat...maybe if it were towed to the freighter. We had to be able to navigate the 2-3 mile trip to the freighter & then had to climb all over the boat to get her ready for the slings...We had a couple of young ladies from a cruising catamaran we befriended and who wanted to ride with us to the ship. They were able to document much of the loading with a GoPro. Hopefully the below link will work. Credits to Sanne Klippel

Mike Kelley
M/V Forever Friday
Bellingham, WA

https://gopro.com/v/EDar4q2O3e89O

 

[Greggnvt]

Shipping via deck - SevenStar

Hi Peter,
My boat is in Ensenada, MX now, waiting to be shipped out in Sept. to FL. 1.5 years ago, I shipped it from FL, to Ensenada and kept it in San Diego. Took everything off the deck that I could, canvas etc. Secured the tender, deck furniture-again anything that would/could move.

I was surprised how much salt residue was on the boat when it came from FL to MX. Looked like it had been in some strong winds as well (rust streaks hear and there).

Feel free to contact me if you want to discuss in detail.

Thank you,
Gregg

 

[Hippocampus]

The Big day is Monday!!!

Get my boat back. She’s on Sea Steamer which is a7 seas vessel. Registered in Singapore with an all Russian crew. My yacht manager loaded her. Had to bring her from IGY Rodney to port vieux port. Ship showed up 2 days early. A scramble to get her loaded. He had troubles with language barrier. He was asked to show in early AM hours. He got done 11:30pm. They take their lunch/dinner breaks regardless of what’s going on. Their schedule was disturbed by Hurricane I so can’t blame them for scheduling issues. You hire your own customs broker. Don’t use Joseph Harris in St. Lucia. I think he’s a total rip off artist. Wanted $1000USD. Clearing in broker in US wanted $285USD and unlike Harris was easy to deal with.
Boat is going to Newport but ships launch to North Kingstown. My slip is in Hinckley yard. Logistics will be interesting moving people and cars around getting to ships launch, moving boat and getting home afterwards. We are scheduled to splash at 6:30am so will be a long day.
It has been a stressful experience so far but do to issues from the hurricane and covid not Seven Seas. I’m in Massachusetts boats home is Rhode Island. Our governor declared anyone coming from Rhode Island into Massachusetts must quarantine for 2 weeks. The boats for sale as I want to move on to a trawler. Have several potential buyers already lined up and one is sailing from the chessie to look at her next week. Will be a total scramble to get her ready for a showing.
Will check in on Tuesday to let you know how unloading went.

 

[JOHN CLAYMAN]

During a long career, I have shipped hundreds of yachts and have learned a lot. For what it's worth, I will only use Sevenstar which also own Dockwise. I have recently been to their offices in the Netherlands and I understand they own about 600 of their own ships...they have never disappointed me. For a boat such as a Willard 36, I see no advantage to use a float on/float off vessel. I know many of their sales staff and would be happy to connect you if you reply privately.

 

[Swfla]

The mentions of thick layers of salt and diesel soot everywhere would prompt me to hire a trusted detail crew. It'll take 2 people the better part of a day to get in all the nooks and crannies. Though the mention of hot water pressure sprayer may help even without the Collonite. I wouldn't normally suggest this but wd-40 creates a nice shine/curb appeal on the gel coat once it's clean. Much quicker than waxing. I bring it up due to the tight time frame of showing the boat.

 

[ScottC]

Plan to hit Florida in the middle of the trip and just jump over to the Bahamas for a few weeks and come back with your clock reset. Don’t miss Staniel Cay, my favorite place in the Bahamas.

Thank you for the tips, Caphenning!

 

[Hippocampus]

We had the boat waxed just before taking it off the hard and brought to the ship. Thought to make use of the less expensive islanders labor. Hopefully that will make it easier to clean her up. Will have to do the stainless, get sails back on and reorganize the interior. Oh joy. The pleasures of boating.

 

[Swfla]

The joys! No way to avoid the upkeep. I googled your model and it seems to be easier to clean than others. Check the air vents into the engine room. Hoping the salt intrusion is minimal.