Sewage discharges vs. pumping overboard

[Bigsfish]

We are off shore much of the time so we pump out in the middle of the Gulf Stream or in deep water in the Bahamas. Only used a pump out twice.

 

[dhays]

We are off shore much of the time so we pump out in the middle of the Gulf Stream or in deep water in the Bahamas. Only used a pump out twice.

Good point. I always forgot that many of you are right near the open ocean.

 

[Bigsfish]

We are lucky to have the best year round cruising.

 

[FF]

"if Governor Ray is correct, does more harm than good."

Doing great harm just gives a new purpose to expand any buroRat empire.

Solving a problem would end the need for the Rats,

never going to happen.

 

[tadhana]

Just a reminder, the NDZ only applies to boats with a treatment system. It has been illegal to dump raw sewage into the continental waters and freshwater lakes of the US since 1980. A boat with a treatment system is permitted to dump their treated sewage into the coastal waters, except in an NDZ.
Dropbox - File Deleted - Simplify your life

 

[catalinajack]

Just a reminder, the NDZ only applies to boats with a treatment system. It has been illegal to dump raw sewage into the continental waters and freshwater lakes of the US since 1980. A boat with a treatment system is permitted to dump their treated sewage into the coastal waters, except in an NDZ.
Dropbox - File Deleted - Simplify your life

Yes, of course. A NDZ prohibiting discharges of TREATED, harmless waste which, at this point, is no longer waste water. Makes perfect sense to me. Saving the bay, a few ounces at a time.

 

[sdowney717]

Yes, of course. A NDZ prohibiting discharges of TREATED, harmless waste which, at this point, is no longer waste water. Makes perfect sense to me. Saving the bay, a few ounces at a time.

Peggy said one discharge from a LECTRASAN has the nutrient quantity of FOUR oak leaves.

As is usual feel good green politics about animal wastes trumps true science, sometimes, but not ALL the time. Boaters wastes are meaningless, the cities need to clean up their own act before throwing stones at the few boaters out there. And still exists the truth that their laws about boaters only good for the fees-fines-penalties money they can exact against the pleasure boater.

 

[AusCan]

I'm sorry, but I take a slightly different stance from many other posters.
Yes - many municipalities need to clean up their act.

But I don't understand why that means the laws and/or regulations prohibiting boaters from polluting is wrong. Perhaps the priorities are wrong, but the laws/regulations are what we need to keep enclosed waters from turning into a cesspool.

Why shouldn't we take the lead in keeping the water clean? We use the water more than most; we generally have more disposable income to cover the costs than most; and we should have a better appreciation of the value of clean water than most.

Ok - have at it; tear me apart.

 

[catalinajack]

I'm sorry, but I take a slightly different stance from many other posters.
Yes - many municipalities need to clean up their act.

But I don't understand why that means the laws and/or regulations prohibiting boaters from polluting is wrong. Perhaps the priorities are wrong, but the laws/regulations are what we need to keep enclosed waters from turning into a cesspool.

Why shouldn't we take the lead in keeping the water clean? We use the water more than most; we generally have more disposable income to cover the costs than most; and we should have a better appreciation of the value of clean water than most.

Ok - have at it; tear me apart.

Define enclosed waters. Is it a quiet backwater marina? A main channel? A large bay? Do everything we can when virtually anything a boater might do won't matter a wit?

 

[AusCan]

As mentioned previously by FC , it's a matter of dilution. Less dilution and more users requires tighter restrictions.

 

[mramoo]

AusCan,

If one has a sanitation system that is up to date, and the waste water that you are discharging is cleaner than the water that you are putting it into, I don't see the problem.

 

[Peter B]

I'm sorry, but I take a slightly different stance from many other posters.
Yes - many municipalities need to clean up their act.
But I don't understand why that means the laws and/or regulations prohibiting boaters from polluting is wrong. Perhaps the priorities are wrong, but the laws/regulations are what we need to keep enclosed waters from turning into a cesspool.......As mentioned previously by FC , it's a matter of dilution. Less dilution and more users requires tighter restrictions.

AusCan, I hear what you are saying, but I think the point folk are making is, the authorities really need to get their act together before punishing the boating fraternity. Many of us own boats built before they introduced retrospective legislation forcing us to have holding tanks, treatment systems, etc, which take it from me, made it a nightmare to comply. Yet they can't prevent overflows of massive proportions from our city treatment stations.

In the case of here in Queensland, the Qld Govt legislated for holding tanks and no discharge zones, and legal discharge only in what is termed 'open waters', yet failed to legislate for the marinas to have to provide pump-out facilities. These are therefore so few and far between, most boaters in our Moreton Bay are forced to break the law. It has produced such a farcical situation, that the water police have given up trying to enforce it.

Recently I gave up on repairing the system that caused me huge issues to install, just trying to be legal, only to have to discharge the tank illegally, as I am over 2 hours travel to get to a pump-out or open waters. I called it quits, and went over to a self-contained portable camping type toilet, which ironically now makes me legal and hassle free. As it is treated it can even be dumped overboard legally, but down the normal sewage system is preferable and also ok. Just sayin'

 

[BruceK]

Authorities here in NSW State don`t like Lectrasan, if you had one you could use it until it died, and that`s it. Sydney Harbor is now an NDZ for commercial boats (grey water as well as the obvious black )but the "grey" aspect does not apply to private boats. Many just run drains from basins etc, changing that would be a hassle.
The problem with discharge is the "do as I say, not as I do" hypocritical Govt attitude. For as long as that continues people won`t embrace regulation any more than they must. The lack of pump out facilities is another Govt failure, if you want compliance, make compliance reasonably possible. It`s tough enough requiring every boat to be a sewerage farm, let alone requiring them to build their own discharge facility.

 

[knotheadcharters]

It's all political bullshit. Add up all recreation boaters in any area and the amount of waste they would discharge in a weekend does not amount to a fraction of one factory or runoff from farms in any city on any given day. I love the joke about the entire fFlorida Keys being a NDZ. HA HA How much waste do you think Big Sugar dumps into the everglades on any given day? which makes it's way to the Keys. Another example. Deep Water Horizon. Remember 'Oh my God, the Gulf of Mexico will be one big waste land and dead zone, everything will die" Yea, that didn't happen. The best part nobody even mentions it anymore. Funny Huh?

 

[FF]

"Remember 'Oh my God, the Gulf of Mexico will be one big waste land and dead zone, everything will die" Yea, that didn't happen. The best part nobody even mentions it anymore. Funny Huh?"

The biased media will never own up to its unending errors.

They have a narrative , which does not include honesty or reality.

 

[AusCan]

We have a big shortage of pump outs here too. Luckily, the open water is close by.

I understand everyones frustration, but I feel the venting should be aimed at pushing for better control of public outflows and for additional pump out facilities, rather than taking on the attitude of "my little bit won't make a difference".

 

[Group9]

"Remember 'Oh my God, the Gulf of Mexico will be one big waste land and dead zone, everything will die" Yea, that didn't happen. The best part nobody even mentions it anymore. Funny Huh?"

The biased media will never own up to its unending errors.

They have a narrative , which does not include honesty or reality.

The BP oil spill did more damage to the Gulf of Mexico than any amount of boaters could have ever come within a fraction of doing. It may never fully recover. The part of it I live on sure hasn't.

 

[Bigsfish]

I keep my boat on the Miami River, a working river for island freighters, marinas, live aboards and lots of other vessels. The authorities came down hard on the working marinas and live aboards but the island freighters are pumping their bilges when passing my boat. I see lots of fuel and oil, dead chickens, dead goats, human bodies not so much anymore and the working yards get cited. Sad.

 

[angus99]

Put me in the minority. Several years ago I was snorkeling in an anchorage and saw some brown torpedoes and used TP floating by. Soon after I was in the fetal position and stayed that way for most of my vacation.

Obviously there are stupid regs . . . especially those that confuse treated waste from boats with real waste . . . and where you come down on regs, I guess, depends on whose ox is being gored. But I think it's entirely reasonable to prohibit me from discharging untreated waste in areas where people in the water or living near the water have to deal with it.

There may also be a pragmatic point for those of us worried about losing anchorages. If I owned waterfront property and had to navigate around human waste from anchored boats when I walked on the beach, you'd best believe I'd be asking gov't officials to prohibit boats from anchoring anywhere near me.

Finally, I don't believe that just because cities don't have their acts together and discharge vast volumes of waste, I'm absolved from trying to limit my impact. I'd rather be part of the solution than be lumped in with disfunctional treatment systems or animals. Our dogs crap in the front yard . . . we don't.

 

[foggysail]

Put me in the minority. Several years ago I was snorkeling in an anchorage and saw some brown torpedoes and used TP floating by.

Our dogs crap in the front yard . . . we don't.

Gunboat? Torpedoes? Really? I doubt that either could make their way through a marine head even the older models without an internal macerator. Even the old joker valves did a decent job of breaking up waste. I suspect your problem originated from the local town/city doing their usual pump out into the harbors.

And yes, dogs do whatever whenever the need occurs. And so do the 50,000+ seals in our local waters. They pass on the waste from the 30+ pounds of fish they each consume daily depriving all around here from catching fish. So maybe we should change our diets from fish to seals and help clean our waters????

 

[MurrayM]

And yes, dogs do whatever whenever the need occurs. And so do the 50,000+ seals in our local waters. They pass on the waste from the 30+ pounds of fish they each consume daily depriving all around here from catching fish. So maybe we should change our diets from fish to seals and help clean our waters????

Sigh...

Just how abundant were fish stocks when Europeans arrived in North America? Weren't cod so numerous you just had to chuck a bucket overboard? Weren't seals here before Europeans? Heard that seal argument too many times in this thread!

 

[MurrayM]

...and because I know you or somebody else will counter with, "Yeah, but there's way more seals around now than there used to be" I suggest you read "Sea of Slaughter" by Farley Mowat wherein he describes how many species, seals included, were pretty much wiped out in the early days of European settlement.

 

[MurrayM]

...and because I know somebody will parrot what they've heard via the NRA, you should also reads Mowat's "My Discovery of America" wherein Mowat describes how he was refused entry into the USA to give a book tour for The Sea of Slaughter. Turns out it was pressure on politicians from the NRA that had him stopped at the border. Interesting, yes?

 

[angus99]

Gunboat? Torpedoes? Really? I doubt that either could make their way through a marine head even the older models without an internal macerator. Even the old joker valves did a decent job of breaking up waste. I suspect your problem originated from the local town/city doing their usual pump out into the harbors.

And yes, dogs do whatever whenever the need occurs. And so do the 50,000+ seals in our local waters. They pass on the waste from the 30+ pounds of fish they each consume daily depriving all around here from catching fish. So maybe we should change our diets from fish to seals and help clean our waters????

I didn't ask how it got there, but there was no town nearby--just anchored boats. I just got to savor someone's e-coli or whatever. Sorry if that rubs up against your worldview. Eat whatever you want . . . just don't digest and discharge it where I boat and swim, please.

 

[foggysail]

Sigh...

Just how abundant were fish stocks when Europeans arrived in North America? Weren't cod so numerous you just had to chuck a bucket overboard? Weren't seals here before Europeans? Heard that seal argument too many times in this thread!

I don't know what the conditions were then and neither do you! But I do remember when I was a young man being able to catch abundant numbers of cod and I am sure many others also remember.

And you may be tired of reading (you don't "hear" on this website) about seal problems BUT THAT DOES NOT MAKE THE PROBLEM GO AWAY!

...and because I know you or somebody else will counter with, "Yeah, but there's way more seals around now than there used to be" I suggest you read "Sea of Slaughter" by Farley Mowat wherein he describes how many species, seals included, were pretty much wiped out in the early days of European settlement.

I don't need book recommendations from you!

 

[foggysail]

I knew it was coming :lol:

This entire NDZ B.S. is out of control! DO GOODERS lobby and get unreasonable.....and many times unenforceable laws passed, go around beating their chests humming "Oh what a good boy I am!"


So here we go again now that I dropped a brick into the poop.

 

[foggysail]

Eat whatever you want . . . just don't digest and discharge it where I boat and swim, please.

Are you implying that I pump wastes into anchorages? I take umbrage if that is your intention

 

[knotheadcharters]

Group9 Facts and figures please. I have seen none. Just speculation and gibberish.

 

[foggysail]

Group9 Facts and figures please. I have seen none. Just speculation and gibberish.

From 16 years ago!!!!

https://www.nefsc.noaa.gov/ecosys/ecosystem-ecology/pinnipeds.html


The 2001 observed count of 38,011 is 28.7% greater than the 1997 count. Increased abundance of seals in the NES LME has also been documented during aerial and boat surveys of overwintering haul-out sites from the Maine/New Hampshire border to eastern Long Island and New Jersey.



EDIT:
And published 6 April 2017 from the Cape Cod Times:

http://www.capecodtimes.com/news/20170406/cape-gray-seal-population-estimated-at-up-to-50k

 

[Bigsfish]

South Florida we have manatees that mess up boating.

Never mind. LOL