Selling a boat in the winter

[CaptainRich]

Hello everybody


I have a couple questions about selling my boat in the winter.


Right now my boat is now on the hard, winterized and wrapped in Deale MD.



There is an interested buyer who wants me to unwrap it put it in the water for a survey and a sea trial. If the buyer walks or nit picks after the survey I am stick with paying to wrap, winterize and haul again. There was nothing wrong with the boat when I stored it, I am confident there won't be anything wrong with it if I do this.


My worry is being stuck with all the costs and giving the buyer all the leverage in this deal. I am not too thrilled about taking a boat ride toward the end of December in Deale MD either.


I have been trying to get rid of this boat for a while though.



Is it a horrible idea to go through with this?


Who usually pays for wrapping / unwrapping, winterizing in these types of situations? ( if there are these types of situations. )

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. CR. Tell the prospective buyer he/she pays for all expenses before during and after sea trial. Also tell them you will deduct said costs from final agreed upon price OR wait until spring.

 

[moparharn]

If you have been marketing it for a while and really want to sell it then you might want to be more flexible. Have you had other people look at the boat and then refuse the purchase? If you see this as a low possibility sale you might want to take it off the market until summer. If you think you have a hot buyer AND there are no significant defects with the boat then I would keep this tuna on the line.

You might want to consider a stepped purchase that has doors close on refusal after each segment of the pre-purchase evaluation. In other words he must sign off on the interior and exposed portions of the hull before removal of stretch wrap. Then he must sign off on all exposed areas after stretch wrap removal. Finally, the mechanical and sea trial. I would hope all of this happens on the same day or two days. A surveyor can do the first half while on the hard and wrapped-then get sign off. Next day unwrapped, then in the water for mechanicals and sea trial. This way if the surveyor has concerns wrapped on the hard you are out nothing. My 2 cents.

 

[OldDan1943]

Greetings,
Mr. CR. Tell the prospective buyer he/she pays for all expenses before during and after sea trial. Also tell them you will deduct said costs from final agreed upon price OR wait until spring.

+1

 

[tiltrider1]

If the buyer finds a defect that the seller can’t or won’t fix the seller pays for the re-wrap. If buyer rejects boat because of performance or sea keeping then buyer pays re-wrap. This is not fool proof but does keep an interested buyer on the hook while protecting your self from a lookielou.

 

[BandB]

If you have been marketing it for a while and really want to sell it then you might want to be more flexible. Have you had other people look at the boat and then refuse the purchase? If you see this as a low possibility sale you might want to take it off the market until summer.

You just failed to sell it in one of the best markets you'll ever see. You need to really examine why. Certainly that doesn't bode well for your ability to sell it during winter. You'll either have to agree to launch it or you'll have to agree to take offers subject to spring surveys so not really offers at all.

You can try to sell over winter, but odds, especially due to the history, aren't with you. I'd just try to figure out a plan for spring and one to address the previous failure to sell. If I really wanted to sell it now, I'd launch it and take it sound and find a broker.

 

[mvweebles]

OP can contract for whatever he wants. Heck, he can attempt to collect an entry fee just to climb aboard his boat. However, it's customary for the buyer to pay a meaningful deposit and to pay for the actual inspections. It's customary for the seller to pay the costs to make the boat available for inspection. For example, a delivery captain is often used to drive the boat during the sea trial and to/from the yard. What the OP is saying is tantamount to "Gee, if they back out of the deal I want them to pay for the captain."

My hunch is the OP is not ready to sell this boat. Or has otherwise unreasonable expectations. Take it off the market. If you have a broker, he may do himself a favor and cut you loose - selling a boat is hard enough.

Peter

 

[Bacchus]

My vote would be some combination of these.
Buyer must be serious to be looking this time of year. Have you discussed his situation and reasons for not waiting till spring? The more info the easier to come up with a solution / compromise that works for both.
If they agree to the staged buy off you might consider dropping the other fees or at least splitting them with buyer or setting a smaller fixed $ amount thats non-refundable at each step? At least that helps confirm they are serious.

Greetings,
Mr. CR. Tell the prospective buyer he/she pays for all expenses before during and after sea trial. Also tell them you will deduct said costs from final agreed upon price OR wait until spring.

If you have been marketing it for a while and really want to sell it then you might want to be more flexible. Have you had other people look at the boat and then refuse the purchase? If you see this as a low possibility sale you might want to take it off the market until summer. If you think you have a hot buyer AND there are no significant defects with the boat then I would keep this tuna on the line.

You might want to consider a stepped purchase that has doors close on refusal after each segment of the pre-purchase evaluation. In other words he must sign off on the interior and exposed portions of the hull before removal of stretch wrap. Then he must sign off on all exposed areas after stretch wrap removal. Finally, the mechanical and sea trial. I would hope all of this happens on the same day or two days. A surveyor can do the first half while on the hard and wrapped-then get sign off. Next day unwrapped, then in the water for mechanicals and sea trial. This way if the surveyor has concerns wrapped on the hard you are out nothing. My 2 cents.

 

[mvweebles]

My vote would be some combination of these.
Buyer must be serious to be looking this time of year. Have you discussed his situation and reasons for not waiting till spring? The more info the easier to come up with a solution / compromise that works for both.
If they agree to the staged buy off you might consider dropping the other fees or at least splitting them with buyer or setting a smaller fixed $ amount thats non-refundable at each step? At least that helps confirm they are serious.

Maybe the seller should ask the buyer to split the cost of the fuel used during sea trial too? If there's a paid delivery captain driving the boat, should be split too?

The boat is either for sale or its not. OP can ask whatever he wants - it's just a contract. Heck, he can ask the buyer to pay the 10% commission instead of the seller. But the risk is disenfranchising the buyer.

Peter

 

[SteveK]

Thank you Peter, I did not think anyone else thought that way. What is a boat doing on the hard in a bubble wrap when it is for sale.

OP can contract for whatever he wants. Heck, he can attempt to collect an entry fee just to climb aboard his boat. However, it's customary for the buyer to pay a meaningful deposit and to pay for the actual inspections. It's customary for the seller to pay the costs to make the boat available for inspection. For example, a delivery captain is often used to drive the boat during the sea trial and to/from the yard. What the OP is saying is tantamount to "Gee, if they back out of the deal I want them to pay for the captain."

My hunch is the OP is not ready to sell this boat. Or has otherwise unreasonable expectations. Take it off the market. If you have a broker, he may do himself a favor and cut you loose - selling a boat is hard enough.

Peter

 

[alormaria]

Is the boat as good as you say? Give a discount and sell it now as is where is.



The buyer surveys it on land and can make the determination then and there to take delivery now or pass. You've already given a discount for any niggling little winter problems. It's his boat to do what he pleases. Be sure to notify the boatyard as to the new owner and be sure the title/Doc is transferred before you cancel your insurance.



Your best loss is your first loss.

 

[Nomad Willy]

RT said it all in post #2.

Byers seem to think sellers are put there to order around and pay for services that benefit the buyer.

 

[boatpoker]

-negotiate on costs
-survey on the hard
-complete the deal if survey goes well with a holdback in escrow til' seatrial in spring. Buyer gets all or part of any costs from that holdback on agreed issues revealed at sea trial.

Brokers up here in the Great White do that routinely for winter sales. Holdbacks are typically 10-15% but it all depeds on your negotiation skills.

 

[BruceK]

RTF is right, BandB and moparharn analyze it well. What a messy way to have to sell a boat. You`ve got someone interested, be flexible, don`t lose them.

 

[OldDan1943]

I dont care how or if you split the inspection/survey costs, people generally do not get top dollar for a boat in the great frozen north. The buyer has all winter to look for a boat. If the seller is really ready to sell, the buyer expect the seller to make concessions he would not make during boating season.
Talk with his surveyor to get a feel how serious this buyer is. Ask him if the buyer is really serious and willing to survey in stages.....
The seller could unwrap the boat, put it in the water only to discover the buyer is 'tire kicking'. How many other boats has the buyer looked at in the last 6 months?
The seller may be better off waiting till late spring unless he is trying to get out from boat payments and yard fees then, he could reduce the asking price by the loan interest he would pay and the yard fees.
My suggestion is to take the boat off the market until late spring. It might show the potential buyers, the seller is not desperate.
Remember, the seller is taking the boat off the market so, I think it is reasonable to expect the seller a non-refundable deposit.

 

[mvweebles]

Remember, the seller is taking the boat off the market so, I think it is reasonable to expect the seller a non-refundable deposit.

Re-read the OP. This boat is actively for sale and has been for a while. Buyer wants to do a SEA TRIAL AND A SURVEY. Not a joy ride, not a "gee, before I make an offer, do you mind starting-up the engines?" OP has not said this is anything other than a normal offer against a boat that is actively for sale. Presumably, there has been an offer, acceptance, and a meaningful deposit placed in escrow pending the outcome of the inspections. The buyer has done his job. Seller doesn't want to hold-up his end and make the boat available for inspection - too much risk he says, as if the buyer's position is cost-free/risk-free (hardly).

I wonder what the TF Bigger Brain would say if a buyer posted "Ya know, I'm about to spend a LOT of money on travel, sea trial, haul, mechanical inspection, and survey. If the boat turns out to be a turkey due to a non-disclosed item and I decide to walk, shouldn't the seller be responsible for my out-of-pocket expenses?" If I were the buyer, I'd walk - I would see this as an unreasonable request and figure the seller won't get more reasonable down the road. Thought probably crosses broker's mind too - firing clients happens.

Peter

 

[Judy at JWY]

CaptRich: If you have a qualified buyer who is ready to purchase, you do not want to lose him/her. When you winterized your boat, you magnified the difficulty in selling her. That is your problem, not the prospective buyer's. Firstly, I would make sure the buyer is truly ready-to-go, as the boat should be. Take the risk of the expense of re-winterizing and then justify it in your own mind. If the buyer concludes the sale, then you will have saved the expenses of storage and insurance for the next few months. So perhaps the idea of a "wash" will help justify the possible expense to re-winterize. I suggest that as a consolation prize if the deal falls is that you put in the purchase agreement that the buyer release all surveys to you. That way you will at least get something out of the deal. Re-winterizing will be cheaper than if you had the boat surveyed for your own edification. If all turns out well on the survey, then the boat is sold or the survey becomes a selling tool for the next buyer. More importantly, if the buyer rejects, you will know what you have to fix so the next deal will be a successful one.

Judy

 

[OldDan1943]

My concern is, the seller takes the boat off the market and the buyer is free to continue his search. He comes back and says, "I found a boat more to my liking." The seller is stuck with the expense of re-winterizing plus, the yard may fill up your spot on the hard unless you have an agreement and continue to pay the monthly fee. IF everything is scheduled correctly, the boat should be in with water, surveyed and back on the hard in maybe a week??

 

[mvweebles]

My concern is, the seller takes the boat off the market and the buyer is free to continue his search. He comes back and says, "I found a boat more to my liking." The seller is stuck with the expense of re-winterizing plus, the yard may fill up your spot on the hard unless you have an agreement and continue to pay the monthly fee. IF everything is scheduled correctly, the boat should be in with water, surveyed and back on the hard in maybe a week??

OldDan - are you thinking the transaction would be delayed? My read was sea trial and survey would proceed at a normal pace - ASAP. The OP doesn't want to un-wrap/re-wrap, and even mentions he doesn't want to do a boat ride in late December. All I can say, sometimes owning a boat is not convenient.

If the suggestion is to make an offer contingent on a survey/sea trial months away in the spring, I totally agree. Bad idea for both parties.

Judy offers good, measured advice.

Peter

 

[Chrisjs]

What size is the boat?? Guessing that a mid size vessel will cost the OP somewhere in the range of $3K for the whole round trip event, is that a reasonable risk for the seller? That depends in part on the selling price and whether there is a broker collecting another 10%. I do think a solid agreement is required that minimizes the buyer just using the leverage to gain an ever lower price. The idea of conducting the survey in stages and gaining commitments before continuing is a decent suggestion that should be acceptable to a serious buyer. Depending on the yard, it may even be possible to supply enough water to even run the engine(s) on the hard for an initial engine survey. Not sure what it is like in Deale, MD, but there is no way to even consider his type of Winter activity here in Massachusetts.

 

[CaptainRich]

Wow


Thanks everyone, so many different ways of looking at this that I hadn't thought of. I am going with a hybrid approach. I'll get the boat ready to go and the buyer agreed to pay to put it away again.


Please have a safe and Happy Holiday


Thanks again for all the responses.

 

[Chrisjs]

Glad you got it sorted. Good luck with the sale.

another consideration is how familiar the prospective buyer is with the vessel type.
The "failed sales" I experienced were all with prospects who either had very little or no prior experience and thought it would be nice to own a big (50ft) boat, not to mention the exceptionally large people who could barely climb onto the vessel while out of the water.
Moral here is "know your customer", but hard to do when all contacts are by phone and internet.

 

[GFC]

At least he has a BUYER. My boat is in Seattle, in the water, clean and ready for sale. My broker called me with an offer that was waaay below the advertised selling price. No mention by the "buyer" of a sea trial or survey. He hadn't been aboard the boat, he just shot me a price. "He" shot me a price, not his broker.

My counter offer was just a tad below the advertised selling price. He ran.

I'm glad. I don't need no stinkin' tire kickers.

 

[RivaMike]

It is hard to answer all of your questions without a few more specifics regarding what kind of boat, how much$$ involved and where it is hauled and blocked.

I sold boats in the Annapolis area for a few years and we were busy year round. Sales did not stop because winter set in - one year we did have a bit of a backlog of sea trials while we were waiting for the ice to melt - but we are not in any condition like that now, I think it was in the low 50's today. If a December boat ride is that much of an issue for you then you should probably hire someone to sell your boat for you.

If you are in HHN then you should not have a problem with the marina being able to launch you for a sea trial. If you are at Shipright or a handful of other smaller marinas in Deale then you might be screwed unless you want to pay for a handful of boats to be moved just to launch you.

We always went by the seller was responsible for having the boat in the water and ready to go for the sea trial (keeping in mind you already paid for the launch when you had the boat hauled). The buyer, if they did not buy the boat, was responsible for putting it back in the condition it was when he first viewed it (i.e. hauled, winterized and shrink wrapped).

As other have mentioned above, keeping in mind that you have not sold your boat in one of the best seller's market in memory, I would get an itemized bill from your marina as to what it will cost to have you hauled, blocked, winterized and shrink wrapped. I would then tell the buyer that it is their responsibility to pay for these items if they do not buy the boat (hopefully the deposit you have in hand is enough to cover these items) -- but I would emphasize that most surveyors do not have an issue with coming to the boat while it is winterized on the hard and doing the hull inspection first. If that is good then the buyer can move forward with having you unwrap and launch the boat. I would then suggest that the surveyor does the sea trial and engine check next (so if there is a big issue the survey can be stopped without the other systems being unwinterized).

You want to make this as quick and simple as possible. The longer, more drawn out with more steps the less likely that the sale will go through.

 

[OldDan1943]

My counter offer was just a tad below the advertised selling price. He ran.

I'm glad. I don't need no stinkin' tire kickers.

Nor fender kickers.

I suspect he was seeing how desperate you are to sell or hoping for a Christmas present.
If he comes back to you with a little increase, tell him, 'After much thought and consideration, I have decided not to sell you my boat, even if you give me the price the broker advertised. You dont deserve my boat.'

That ought to give him the shock of his life. LOL

 

[Cartouche]

Hello everybody


I have a couple questions about selling my boat in the winter.


Right now my boat is now on the hard, winterized and wrapped in Deale MD.



There is an interested buyer who wants me to unwrap it put it in the water for a survey and a sea trial. If the buyer walks or nit picks after the survey I am stick with paying to wrap, winterize and haul again. There was nothing wrong with the boat when I stored it, I am confident there won't be anything wrong with it if I do this.


My worry is being stuck with all the costs and giving the buyer all the leverage in this deal. I am not too thrilled about taking a boat ride toward the end of December in Deale MD either.


I have been trying to get rid of this boat for a while though.



Is it a horrible idea to go through with this?


Who usually pays for wrapping / unwrapping, winterizing in these types of situations? ( if there are these types of situations. )

We bought or Mainship up here in the frigid north in October the boat was hauled wintered and shrink wrapped. we Came to a deal and the Broker held 20K back until launch and sea trial survey is best done when on hard so that can be done at buyers expense with no effect to you if survey finds problems, they can be worked out now worked great for us. there was a bilge pump that had been winterized badly and $200.00 came off the hold back the rest was perfect.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

R.T hit the nail right on the head in post #2.

However, there is still something unsaid.

Your boat is overpriced. (period) If it is everything you say it is and you are having a hard time selling it, you are looking at a pricing issue.

When it comes right down to it. Everything is based on price, from a beautiful, Bristol yacht to a leaky old tub. Everything will sell if the price is right. There are really no exceptions.

pete

 

[slymeso44]

that seems reasonable to ask him to differed the cost and remove it from the selling price if it's not a reasonable offer, remember sellers always think that their boat are wort more then they actually are, just saying as a boat owner lol

 

[Seevee]

R.T hit the nail right on the head in post #2.

However, there is still something unsaid.

Your boat is overpriced. (period) If it is everything you say it is and you are having a hard time selling it, you are looking at a pricing issue.

When it comes right down to it. Everything is based on price, from a beautiful, Bristol yacht to a leaky old tub. Everything will sell if the price is right. There are really no exceptions.

pete

Totally agree, but market really determines the price. AND today is certainly a sellers market so there's a reason that boat hasn't sold.


And, if one winterized it, and shrunk wapped it, they certainly weren't expecting any buyers until spring. Perhaps it's just a hard boat to sell, or has some unpopular things about it. Don't know the details. BUT, any reasonable boat will sell today at any reasonable (and most likely high) price.

 

[OldDan1943]

IF someone wants to sea trial your boat, both in and out of the water survey, THEY will pay for it, not you. That includes taking it out of the water, blocking it and rewrapping it. End of story. Tell him, make no concessions. Dont split the costs, why? Because you are content the way your boat is now, out of the water, blocked and wrapped.
Unless he is going to pay for everything just tell him, "See me in the summer."
If he wants you to remove the boat from more offers then, a non-refundable deposit which, if he is satisfied with the sea trial, you will gladly take the amount off the price. If he is not happy with the boat after sea trials, YOU keep the deposit because you have removed it from the market.
Understand, the deposit is non-refundable because you are not accepting other offers.
Now, go back and count the times I said, "non-refundable deposit and, you have removed it from the market and other offers."
In my mind, that is the end of the story.