Selling a boat in the winter

[smitty477]

IF someone wants to sea trial your boat, both in and out of the water survey, THEY will pay for it, not you. That includes taking it out of the water, blocking it and rewrapping it. End of story. Tell him, make no concessions. Dont split the costs, why? Because you are content the way your boat is now, out of the water, blocked and wrapped.
Unless he is going to pay for everything just tell him, "See me in the summer."
If he wants you to remove the boat from more offers then, a non-refundable deposit which, if he is satisfied with the sea trial, you will gladly take the amount off the price. If he is not happy with the boat after sea trials, YOU keep the deposit because you have removed it from the market.
Understand, the deposit is non-refundable because you are not accepting other offers.
Now, go back and count the times I said, "non-refundable deposit and, you have removed it from the market and other offers."
In my mind, that is the end of the story.

I agree with you Dan - and that is exactly what we have done in the past.

 

[SoWhat]

Now, go back and count the times I said, "non-refundable deposit and, you have removed it from the market and other offers."
In my mind, that is the end of the story.

Agree. First get a quote for haul, blocking, winterizing, and shrink wrap. Then modify your listing agreement to specify x% refundable deposit and <$2000> non-refundable fee required prior to sea trail. Deposit and fee shall be applied to purchase price at closing.

Not sure why boat is still on the market if it's not ready to sell but fee will get rid of tire kickers.

 

[OldDan1943]

Maybe I did not make myself clear.
He pays for everything involved with the preparing the boat for sea trial, survey, unwrapping, putting it in the water, taking it out of the water, re-blocking and re-wrapping the boat, re-winterizing. IF he is interested and the buyer delay the completion of the sale, a nonrefundable deposit. (He may continue his search while keeping your boat off the market) That amount will be deducted from the final sale price, if he buys the boat.
The amount for for prep and sea trials, survey are "sunk" costs. Along with the cost of returning it to a winterized state.
2 different issues.

 

[JLD]

If I was the potential buyer and ready to purchase a boat NOW, I would pass on the OP's boat, as it doesn't really sound like the boat is for sale. I, too, question why the boat is on the hard and wrapped if it is currently for sale. This is Maryland, not the frozen inland lakes of Canada.

The OP seems to be worried about cost to not sell the boat. It's not like the potential buyer isn't taking any financial risks. He would be putting down a deposit and paying for a survey.

I think the OP should take the boat off the market until Spring as he seems to be wasting both his own time and that of potential buyers, at least for now.

Jim

 

[Yachtman]

Just to throw my hat into this discussion.........
First, let me say my opinion is that the buyer is not responsible for any costs associated with rewrapping/re-winterizing the boat regardless if the sale goes thru. A qualified buyer gets a survey and sea trial and picks up his costs involved with surveys and etc.
So here’s a scenario for those that think the buyer should pay for rewrap/winterizing. Let say that a 60+ vessel is stored, on say Oct 1st, unwrapped in an enclosed building, along with other boats. In order to splash it for survey, other boats need to be moved, most assuredly out of the building. So the survey was completed on Nov 1st but failed for some reason. Or even, maybe the survey/sea trial was a success.
So, should the buyer be responsible for the one month yes storage fees and associated costs?

 

[Juggerknot]

Hello everybody


I have a couple questions about selling my boat in the winter.


Right now my boat is now on the hard, winterized and wrapped in Deale MD.



There is an interested buyer who wants me to unwrap it put it in the water for a survey and a sea trial. If the buyer walks or nit picks after the survey I am stick with paying to wrap, winterize and haul again. There was nothing wrong with the boat when I stored it, I am confident there won't be anything wrong with it if I do this.


My worry is being stuck with all the costs and giving the buyer all the leverage in this deal. I am not too thrilled about taking a boat ride toward the end of December in Deale MD either.


I have been trying to get rid of this boat for a while though.



Is it a horrible idea to go through with this?


Who usually pays for wrapping / unwrapping, winterizing in these types of situations? ( if there are these types of situations. )

If by "interested buyer" you mean someone who has made an offer that is acceptable to you and placed a deposit with you prior to the survey and sea trial than certainly, get her launched and ready to go. On the other hand, a tire kicker that has no skin in the game nor an accepted offer with a deposit then I'd certainly not be too excited about the time and expense of this as you really don't have a buyer, you have a looker. get a contract nailed down along with a reasonable deposit then move forward. Just my 2 bits

 

[mvweebles]

Crazy market right now. Was just on sailors forum where a potential buyer made an offer sight unseen for a sailboat in the $150k range. They flew our for the sea trial and survey. Boat had been tucked in for the winter. Seller didn't want to bother putting the sails on the boat for the sea trial and limited sea trial to 45 minutes. When buyer objected, sellers broker stopped returning his calls. I gotta say, buyer seemed like a reasonable person.

And I thought buyers in a buyers market could be jerks.....

Peter

 

[kthoennes]

We sold our Carver 3207 a few years ago in January in South Dakota when the boat was a popsicle on jackstands under a huge tarp. It was below zero that day so his wife stayed in the car. We borrowed a ladder off a nearby sailboat cradle and the buyer and I climbed under the tarp and walked over and through it. I told him I was so confident the engines ran well that if they needed any work in the spring, I would pay the marina service bill. He wrote me a check for the asking price, we shook hands and we were done. Rare informal transaction for a relatively low priced boat I know, but boy that was easy.

We pretty much bought our current boat that way too, on a 20 minute boat ride and a handshake. Seller was a great guy. We were lucky twice.

 

[BandB]

I don't see any indication the seller is serious. He didn't sell it during the best selling season we've had in years. Then he winterized it and took it out of circulation and then starts talking about getting potential buyers to pay. No way one should agree to that, especially knowing the history. I'd love to hear from his former broker about the deals that fell apart. I'm sorry, but the market isn't even now so good that you can get buyers to agree to anything you want.

 

[Hippocampus]

In the past bought a boat in the winter in Massachusetts. Boat was stored in a heated shed. I inspected her in that setting. We negotiated a price and down payment put in escrow. Boat brought outside. Had wet exhaust but no problem running a hose to allow it to be run. Preliminary engine survey done.if she failed that my deposit was to be released back to me. We had already agreed to a a holdback to be released after sea trial and completion of wet survey and pending work. Owner had several jobs in progress he was going to complete in the spring. In meantime oil analysis and dry survey done. Come spring boat was splashed. Sea trial and wet survey done. Hold back released upon completion of of work done and re-examine by my surveyor. . Prior owner paid for storage and splash. But he would have anyway if boat wasn’t sold. I had my down payment tied up for months until deal was completed so was obviously serious. I reserved the right to walk away if boat failed surveys or pending work not done satisfactory but only then. If I otherwise walked away he would deduct the cost of bringing the boat out and then back in from my deposit.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

I bought my Albin in the dead of the winter, under a shrink wrap, fortunately it had a zipper door. It was cold, cramped, poorly lighted experience. In fact it was so unpleasant I declined the sellers offer for an additional visit or a longer visit.

He assured me it would "pop" right off in the Spring, he told me he would spend a day or more with me for a knowledge transfer. He would not guarantee the engine would run for a day or a week, he guaranteed it would run perfectly as long as he was on the boat. Once I left the port I was on my own. (At first I took exception to this but he said he had no control over how I treated the engine once I left the dock. For instance I could drain the oil, "redline" it and blow it up in order to hold him to a guarantee for a new engine.)

I accepted his conditions, wrote a check and that was that. No survey, no sea trial, no hassle. He was a man of his word and I guess I sensed it right away.

Boats DO sell in the dead of winter!

BTW, the price was right. Not great, not lowball, but a fair price.

pete

 

[boatpoker]

Boats DO sell in the dead of winter!

Surveying Frozen Boats.

 

[smitty477]

Never had a problem selling or buying a boat in the winter at least in NY up to the Kingston area. There were always periods of time where the weather was above 40 for days at a time and often higher than 50. Opportunity to get anything done that you would like if that is a goal.
If not just wait for the spring and see what that brings, everyones goals are different.

 

[Shrew]

I've bought two boats in Winter. Two different processes, both acceptable.

Option #1: Negotiate price and get a P&S. Make sure the terms include Survey and Seatrial. Se the dates for Survey relatively early. Set the dates for Seatrial for when the boat can be launched (Spring).

Agree on a percentage to hold back for the seatrial. (Such as the cost of a replacement engine). Pay for the boat, minus the hold back. Once seatrial is done, close on the remaining money or negotiate the amount of the hold back for any issues found.

NOTE: With this method you are basically buying the boat no matter what.

Option #2: Negotiate price and get a P&S. Make sure the terms include Survey and Seatrial. Se the dates for Survey relatively early. Set the dates for Seatrial for when the boat can be launched (Spring). Pay a refundable deposit. Closing doesn't occur until after successful seatrial.

There is a third option. If the buyer is willing to launch and seatrial the boat now, then include in the terms that should the buyer walk, they are responsible for the cost to haul, re-winterize and re-shrink wrap. This option isn't always available since most yards are full of boats and many boats may need to be moved to launch your boat. Some yards don't have the space to jockey 10 boats and get a path to run a lift to the liftway. Those who can will absolutely charge you for each boat they have to move.

 

[Yachtman]

Still don’t agree with buyer having to pay for any associated costs to re-winterize and shrink wrap or anything else. There are many boats available. The buyer pays to haul the boat and survey, etc.
Even if the boat surveys great while out of water, the engine survey during the run out might show some issues that the buyer doesn’t want to deal with regardless if seller wants to pay to satisfy buyer because some things just can’t be permanently resolved. Plus, oil sample might show an issue. Etc.....
Telling a buyer he’s going to have to pay to put boat back in previous stored condition is crazy. Why scare the buyer away if you’re seriously wanting to sell the boat. Also, what if the boat was put away with 1/3 load of fuel. Surveyor and engine surveyor can’t get real numbers for engines without full load of fuel. Who should pay for the fuel if it wasn’t full?
And the seller doesn’t have to remove boat from the market just because he has a buyer. Just put that in the purchase agreement or in an addendum.
There’s just too many real, justifiable reasons a buyer can cancel a purchase agreement. And now you want scare buyer by making them feel pressure to take boat or pay. Crazy!

 

[OldDan1943]

Sure am glad I am not to sell my boat, mid winter up north.

 

[PPandE]

I completely agree with Yachtman. As a serious buyer, I've been misled numerous times by boats that were not as represented in the ad. I've invested enough in travel, survey and sea trial without having to re-pickle a boat after the owner/seller lied to me about the condition of the boat. I've run into everything from five year old photos in the ad to an owner that "forgot" he ran aground. Being a seller's market is no excuse for dishonesty.

I'm considering a boat now where the broker can't even be troubled to make a few more photos for me. Interestingly, that boat has been on the market in new York for months, presumably because of the professionalism of the broker. Just before Thanksgiving on another boat I offered 15% under asking. The seller countered at -2%. I offered -5% and they declined. The boat is still for sale in maryland.

I've also found that the price doesn't really have much to do with it. I started shopping for something in the 50k neighborhood. I'm now looking at boats a little more than four times that.

 

[Yachtman]

Dan,
Question, again. If a 60’ boat is excellently stored in a gorgeous barn that is air/temp controlled, boats are plugged in for charging and etc, etc, etc. But in order for it to be removed from the barn, five other boats need to be removed, stored outside for the day, and put back. The boat I’m purchasing doesn’t pass the sea trial. Deal falls apart that day. The boat doesn’t need shrink wrap, just thoroughly cleaned and put back. Who pays for all that? And if you make me pay, I’ll hire my own service to do the work, which I’ll try to save money on. If your answer is the buyer, why would the buyer want to take a chance on this gorgeous boat, that seams perfect until the sea trial, which comes down to something that the buyer doesn’t feel will/can ever be corrected. Maybe it plows more than it should but the seller thinks nothing of that so it never came up in the advertisement (����). Aren’t you scaring away more buyers than not by telling me, up front, that I’ll be responsible for this fee or lose my deposit if I don’t buy it?

 

[smitty477]

Dan,
Question, again. If a 60’ boat is excellently stored in a gorgeous barn that is air/temp controlled, boats are plugged in for charging and etc, etc, etc. But in order for it to be removed from the barn, five other boats need to be removed, stored outside for the day, and put back. The boat I’m purchasing doesn’t pass the sea trial. Deal falls apart that day. The boat doesn’t need shrink wrap, just thoroughly cleaned and put back. Who pays for all that? And if you make me pay, I’ll hire my own service to do the work, which I’ll try to save money on. If your answer is the buyer, why would the buyer want to take a chance on this gorgeous boat, that seams perfect until the sea trial, which comes down to something that the buyer doesn’t feel will/can ever be corrected. Maybe it plows more than it should but the seller thinks nothing of that so it never came up in the advertisement (����). Aren’t you scaring away more buyers than not by telling me, up front, that I’ll be responsible for this fee or lose my deposit if I don’t buy it?

"If your answer is the buyer, why would the buyer want to take a chance on this gorgeous boat"
The buyer can always wait until the spring if he likes when the boat is more accesable - it is always his/her choice.

"Aren’t you scaring away more buyers than not by telling me, up front, that I’ll be responsible for this fee or lose my deposit if I don’t buy it?"
There is no deposit required if you are waiting until the spring - just wait until the boat is completely accessable understanding that someone esle may buy the boat earlier.

Deposits that are fully refundable have little or no value if they tie a boat up for long periods of time. They have some value if the refund is tied to a specific set of parameters which folks typically will not be able to construct.

Our boats under shrinkwrap were tented high and easily viewed with the ability to check many items should a potential buyer want to do that. They were stored that way as a best practice for taking care of the boat(s) - a distant second thought was the potential sale.

If a buyer seller wants to go thru the trouble and costs of fully presenting a boat such as this they do take on extra risks/costs or they can wait till the spring - its just not that far away.

And if a seller wants to purchase a boat like this he may go through some extra costs and risks or he/she can wait till the spring as well.

The choices have mnay possibilities just as the types of boats as well as sellers and buyers have many possibilities.

 

[OldDan1943]

My boat, my rules. Your boat, your rules.
If you do not want someone else buying under the same circumstances, the buyer better put down a significant non-refundable deposit held in escrow.
The buyer wants to tie you up so you can tie him up.
There is nothing to prevent the potential buyer from going south and buying another boat, leaving with you with a boat that might have been sold to someone else.

I have HEARD of brokers selling a boat twice. His excuse, "You did not put down a non-refundable deposit."
Maybe another buyer is so much 'in love' with your perfect boat, he is will pay to move all the boats. We dont know, do we?

 

[PPandE]

Who pays what is of course completely negotiable based on how badly each party wants to complete the deal. Seller's boat, seller's rules; buyers money, buyers rules.

As a buyer I'm willing to pay reasonable expenses in order to inspect the boat. If it is as represented then I'm gonna buy it and there will be no further expenses to argue over. If the boat isn't as represented, I'll be pretty upset about the time and money already wasted and I'm not paying a dishonest seller trying to further pot commit me. At that point it's his boat and he can put it anywhere he wants. (I could suggest a place)

If a seller isn't making his boat available for inspection I'm inclined to believe that he either doesn't want to sell it or has something to hide. Especially if the boat has been for sale for a long time. I'll pass on that one and find another. There's no such thing as a deal of a lifetime.

 

[smitty477]

Who pays what is of course completely negotiable based on how badly each party wants to complete the deal. Seller's boat, seller's rules; buyers money, buyers rules.

As a buyer I'm willing to pay reasonable expenses in order to inspect the boat. If it is as represented then I'm gonna buy it and there will be no further expenses to argue over. If the boat isn't as represented, I'll be pretty upset about the time and money already wasted and I'm not paying a dishonest seller trying to further pot commit me. At that point it's his boat and he can put it anywhere he wants. (I could suggest a place)

If a seller isn't making his boat available for inspection I'm inclined to believe that he either doesn't want to sell it or has something to hide. Especially if the boat has been for sale for a long time. I'll pass on that one and find another. There's no such thing as a deal of a lifetime.

"If the boat isn't as represented, I'll be pretty upset about the time and money already wasted and I'm not paying a dishonest seller trying to further pot commit me."
What are the list of questions/concerns/deliverables are you requesting when you review a boat?
Do you use a broker?
Do you do your own walkthru?

"If a seller isn't making his boat available for inspection I'm inclined to believe that he either doesn't want to sell it or has something to hide."
In our case the boat(s) were easily viewed but on the hard and covered with wrap between Nov and Mar - easily seen in any case but not available in water between hauls.

"I'll pass on that one and find another."
You should always do exactly what you want to do - just like everyone esle should. What different folks do will never be the exact same but who cares.

 

[PPandE]

"If the boat isn't as represented, I'll be pretty upset about the time and money already wasted and I'm not paying a dishonest seller trying to further pot commit me."
What are the list of questions/concerns/deliverables are you requesting when you review a boat?
Do you use a broker?
Do you do your own walkthru?

"If a seller isn't making his boat available for inspection I'm inclined to believe that he either doesn't want to sell it or has something to hide."
In our case the boat(s) were easily viewed but on the hard and covered with wrap between Nov and Mar - easily seen in any case but not available in water between hauls.

"I'll pass on that one and find another."
You should always do exactly what you want to do - just like everyone esle should. What different folks do will never be the exact same but who cares.

Without publishing a full list of questions that varies with each boat, in general I'm looking for an accurate representation of condition. If I ask about damage history or water ingress, I expect an honest answer.

I do use a broker, in fact, one recommended on this list and that I can endorse. I always do my own extensive walk through.

If I liked the boat well enough while under wraps, I would negotiate the rest.

Each buyer must reach the comfort level they need in order to complete the deal. A motivated seller will facilitate that. An honest one will do that without misleading the buyer.

 

[Seevee]

Nor fender kickers.

I suspect he was seeing how desperate you are to sell or hoping for a Christmas present.
If he comes back to you with a little increase, tell him, 'After much thought and consideration, I have decided not to sell you my boat, even if you give me the price the broker advertised. You dont deserve my boat.'

That ought to give him the shock of his life. LOL

Old Dan,


If one take that kind of attitude, they are NOT a seller. They are the seller's version of a tire kicker.


And, there's no such thing as a tire kicker, for the most part. Certainly can't see a tire kicker going shopping in the winter. We can define a tire kicker is one that really has no intention of buying.


As, a seller, I'll entertain ANYONE that wants to looks at my boat, and give him a ride....even in a sellers market. It's my job to "sell" the boat. And, it's my job to convince the low ball offerer to spend more money. But, I'm still talking. Ya never know when the guy who looks least interested pulls out a check and buys the boat. A seller would be stupid if he offended that guy.



Unfortunately most brokers do a lousy job at selling a boat. Many just won't get the necessary info and won't even show up for the showing.



SELL THE BOAT!

 

[O C Diver]

Sold my charter boat 2 weeks ago in Maryland. Buyer contacted me. He went and looked all through the boat while I was in Florida. We negotiated a price. I sent him a copy of oil analysis tests for the last 4 years and maintenance logs. He had the boat surveyed at his experience. I agreed to go to Maryland, splash the boat and fully prepare it for seatrial. He agreed to pay the cost of in and out travel lift expenses and materials I needed to re winterize the boat (estimated <$500). Everything went fine with a couple of minor hiccups. Cost him about $400 for seatrial and rewinterizing. Boats leaving next week on a truck.

Bottom line:
If you want to sell a boat, try to be reasonable. My traveling in from out of state wasn't his problem, so it shouldn't be his expense. The cost of the survey and the seatrial costs are the buyer's responsibility, but try to be reasonable or maybe offer to cap the costs at a reasonable amount. Attitude goes a long way!

As an added bonus to the buyer LOTS of spares are included with a smooth sale that weren't on the boat for seatrial. Also included was, "Call me if you have any questions as I want you to be happy with your purchase".

I have looked at several boats that were fore sale by owners. Walked away from several because of bad attitudes. If they are this much of an a$$ before I decide to buy, I have to wonder what they are trying to hide or how they're trying to screw me.

Ted

 

[smitty477]

Without publishing a full list of questions that varies with each boat, in general I'm looking for an accurate representation of condition. If I ask about damage history or water ingress, I expect an honest answer.

I do use a broker, in fact, one recommended on this list and that I can endorse. I always do my own extensive walk through.

If I liked the boat well enough while under wraps, I would negotiate the rest.

Each buyer must reach the comfort level they need in order to complete the deal. A motivated seller will facilitate that. An honest one will do that without misleading the buyer.

"I do use a broker, in fact, one recommended on this list and that I can endorse. I always do my own extensive walk through.

I would do the same and agree with you - so why would the following ever occurr?

"If the boat isn't as represented, I'll be pretty upset about the time and money already wasted and I'm not paying a dishonest seller trying to further pot commit me. At that point it's his boat and he can put it anywhere he wants. (I could suggest a place)"

"Without publishing a full list of questions that varies with each boat,"
FWIW this is the simple list I start with before considering a trip/visit to see a boat:
- Are all those pictures of your boat?
- Are the machinery hours TT?
- Do you have a full list of all items and options that convey with the boat?
- Are there maintenance records and are they up to date?
- Do you have a full history of the boat? Has it been damaged, partially submerged or seen heavy repairs?
- Can you send me 40-50 hi-res photos of the boat including all of the machinery?
- What is your cruise and max speeds and at what rpm do you see those?
- What currently does not work on the boat?
- Where is the boat currently and in what condition is it stored?
- Do you own this boat or maybe is it under an LLC or partnership? Do you have 100% rights to sell the boat unencumbered?

 

[OldDan1943]

My concern is, if there is a delay of the sale and the potential buyer does not put down a non-refundable deposit, there is nothing to prevent or discourage him from continuing he search. Meanwhile, you have removed it from the market anticipating a sale.

 

[PPandE]

My concern is, if there is a delay of the sale and the potential buyer does not put down a non-refundable deposit, there is nothing to prevent or discourage him from continuing he search. Meanwhile, you have removed it from the market anticipating a sale.

There is also nothing to prevent the seller from continuing to market the boat. With a better offer in hand, the seller would have less incentive to negotiate after inspections.

The fact is that both shopping for a boat and marketing a boat are expensive in both time and money. Therefore both parties should be vested in the showing and negotiations.

 

[PPandE]

"I do use a broker, in fact, one recommended on this list and that I can endorse. I always do my own extensive walk through.

I would do the same and agree with you - so why would the following ever occurr?

"If the boat isn't as represented, I'll be pretty upset about the time and money already wasted and I'm not paying a dishonest seller trying to further pot commit me. At that point it's his boat and he can put it anywhere he wants. (I could suggest a place)"

Depending on the location of the boat, I may travel to see it before or with my broker. Besides, I'd be pretty upset if the seller caused my broker to waste his time and money as well.

 

[smitty477]

Depending on the location of the boat, I may travel to see it before or with my broker. Besides, I'd be pretty upset if the seller caused my broker to waste his time and money as well.

Interesting...
How many boats have you bought or sold so far? How many of those transactions have had problems along the way?