Self righting boat....

[O C Diver]

Right...but the boat did just fine despite that, yes?

Yea sure, the boat did fine in some big swells. While I'm not going to claim to be an expert, those aren't steep wind driven waves, closer to swells. There is a decided absence of white water. It looks to me like they're going in a large inlet with a significant out going tide opposing wind or storm surge swells. If you watch the video several times you will realize that had the pilot slowed down, the boat would have had an easy time of it and the video would be quite boring. Frankly, I have surfed bigger seas than that in Hatteras inlet, NC.

If they want to show stability and self righting, turn it broadside and take it out of gear. Those waves wouldn't be steep enough to roll it, but they would give you a much better idea it's righting moment. Finally, self righting on flat water doesn't impress me. Let's see it roll over in 10' seas and see how quickly it rights. See if the windows stay in place or the cabin stays attached to the hull when a 10' wave breaks against the cabin side.

Ted

 

[what_barnacles]

I dont wanna ride in it without a way to strap myself down.

 

[MurrayM]

Yea sure, the boat did fine in some big swells. While I'm not going to claim to be an expert, those aren't steep wind driven waves, closer to swells. There is a decided absence of white water. It looks to me like they're going in a large inlet with a significant out going tide opposing wind or storm surge swells. If you watch the video several times you will realize that had the pilot slowed down, the boat would have had an easy time of it and the video would be quite boring. Frankly, I have surfed bigger seas than that in Hatteras inlet, NC.

If they want to show stability and self righting, turn it broadside and take it out of gear. Those waves wouldn't be steep enough to roll it, but they would give you a much better idea it's righting moment. Finally, self righting on flat water doesn't impress me. Let's see it roll over in 10' seas and see how quickly it rights. See if the windows stay in place or the cabin stays attached to the hull when a 10' wave breaks against the cabin side.

Ted

Fair enough. How do you think your boat would have faired in the same conditions with the same person at the helm? That's my point...the boat is stable.

 

[psneeld]

A boat with a cabin and flybridge can be self righting and have watertight compartments as well.

The "looks" of a boat doesn't mean squat....

The USCG picked a selfrighting boat over a surfing boat because in reality, you will not be able to tell what conditions or when you will need one over the other.

I agree that if I ran downwind frequently in large rollers, I would want a nice tracking vessel...but ultimately, survivability of a vessel trumps all.

And ultimately, that feature is controlled by the captain.....up until it's not.

 

[O C Diver]

Fair enough. How do you think your boat would have faired in the same conditions with the same person at the helm? That's my point...the boat is stable.

Better because I would have slowed down.

I recognize my boat has a higher center of gravity. I could have navigated those swells but not at that speed. More importantly, I would have waited offshore for the tide to turn. I have nothing left to prove, have my share of stupid badges.

Ted

 

[MurrayM]

But...my point still is, the stability of the Elling did an amazing job of saving that guys ass. In the same hands and conditions our boat would have probably broached.

 

[gaston]

Well after spending an enjoyable time reading up on the Elling all i can now say is WOW the innovation ,design features ,quality this boat has brought to the market makes all others look dumb . Set aside the fact it can self right and look what else it offers "bloody amazing" I say .
And can you imagine the build quality

 

[O C Diver]

But...my point still is, the stability of the Elling did an amazing job of saving that guys ass. In the same hands and conditions our boat would have probably broached.

I concede your point. Boat survived in spite of the pilot.

Ted

 

[cardude01]

I concede your point. Boat survived in spite of the pilot.



Ted

Since I've not been caught in a position like this yet I need clarification. Is the thing to do is slow down enough so the waves pass under the boat so you don't have to surf the wave? If the wave is breaking will that still work? Seems like a breaking wave would make the boat surf but maybe that's not how it works.

 

[MurrayM]

I concede your point. Boat survived in spite of the pilot.

Ted

...and due to the fast actions of the captain on the boat doing the filming; had to laugh when (in the second part of the video) the Elling catches a really good wave to surf and the other captain has to gun it to avoid getting rear ended

I think the Elling captain was a newbie who thought being close to the other boat would make him safe, rather than watching and learning from the first boat how to move through such waters.

We used to wallow around quite a bit in steep following seas, until we followed a commercial fishing boat about the size of ours one day and got a good lesson from a pro

 

[psneeld]

The only constant in surviving survival situations is beating the odds.

There is no right snswer...same boat, similar conditions may react differently one moment to the next.

There are some points of consistency for survival, but applying them at the right time for different boats is just a guess.

Guys that survive some pretty amazing odds once that are labeled experts or write books like they actually know everything are just fools gold. It worked for them...once.

Let's see them do it again.

Not saying they didn't achieve....but unless they use the word lucky or fortunate a lot...and not expertise...then take the advice as one great piece of the puzzle.

Like a teaching captain that walks aboard your boat and automatically assumes he can handle it in difficult situations better than you....possible...but most will need a bit of time getting used to that particular vessel.

 

[what_barnacles]

And can you imagine the build quality

That crash at 14 knots said it all for me. She's built like a brick....

 

[BruceK]

....outhouse?(Should pass the filter ok)

 

[MurrayM]

Since I've not been caught in a position like this yet I need clarification. Is the thing to do is slow down enough so the waves pass under the boat so you don't have to surf the wave? If the wave is breaking will that still work? Seems like a breaking wave would make the boat surf but maybe that's not how it works.

Generally speaking (way too many wave/boat variables here) we try to stay on the back face of a wave. Going slightly too fast results in the bow falling off as it goes over the top of a wave and the extra speed can get you surfing. Going slightly slower than the waves gets the bow falling off one way or the other again as the boat spends too much time on the crest with not enough hull in the water.

We live in an area of long narrow-ish channels. Moving slightly diagonally in the trough on the back side of waves can let you move across a channel safely. Sometimes though, we have to beat into it for a while to get the right angle for a down wind run into a bay or another channel. Ours is no boat to take waves beam on, especially the short wave period & steep variety we get here!

 

[O C Diver]

Since I've not been caught in a position like this yet I need clarification. Is the thing to do is slow down enough so the waves pass under the boat so you don't have to surf the wave? If the wave is breaking will that still work? Seems like a breaking wave would make the boat surf but maybe that's not how it works.

It's very situation and boat dependent. If you're in following seas, it's very important to keep the water off the back deck. If a wave catches you from behind and breaks on your back deck , all sorts of bad things can happen. Running over the wave you're on can be disastrous depending on how far the bow falls, whether you take a lot of water onto the fore deck, or if the boat gets turned broadside in front of the wave you just ran over. Water (not spray) has lots of weight and must be kept off the boat at all cost. Until you understand how you're boat handles following seas, riding the back side of a wave is a good place to start. Whether you can let following seas go under your stern will depend on the size and steepness of the wave, and the shape and buoyancy of your stern. If you look at the stern of a KK 42 and your boat, you will quickly appreciate why the KK does so well when waves pass in a following sea. If you're traveling in displacement mode in a following sea, having a round stern or wine glass shaped stern is a big plus!

Ted

 

[cardude01]

Thanks. I've had my boat in a decent size (for me) following sea and it wallowed around a bit. My stern seems flat compared to the KK 42.

I need more practice for sure.

 

[BandB]

When we were training with a teaching captain, he spent a lot of time teaching us how to deal with various waves from all directions, how to enter and exit inlets. We certainly weren't that good at first but it was like "Eureka" when we hit that perfect speed, learned to surf just right, when we got good at the right angle on waves on the bow and the right speeds for them. I'm not suggesting anyone go find hurricane size waves to practice but I do think to spend some time practicing with waves more than your normal level is very beneficial. We gained two major things. One we learned quickly that the boat was far more capable than we imagined. Then we developed confidence in ourselves. Now, if we get caught in unanticipated conditions, we're able to take them in stride.

 

[Nomad Willy]

On the Elling vid I see too much yawing.

Could be that the rudder was too slow or small or both. On my Willard 30 the rudder is powerful but a bit slow unless I work at the helm like I'd be soon tired. And I have a bit less than 3 turns lock to lock w a 45 degree each way. Power steering would be just about perfect.

I suspect the helmsman was "correcting" AFTER the boat took off in a wild yawing act. To have less yawing the helmsman needs to anticipate what's going to happen next and be ahead of the curve so to speak. Turn a bit before the boat starts to yaw. The seas may have been too confused to make "corrections" before the fact and if that was the case Elling should have picked some better footage that would have made the boat look much better .. IMO.
But in Ellings defense seas usually look much more benign than they really are. I've taken pics in what I thought was rough but in the picture it dosn't look rough at all.

 

[North Baltic sea]

I know this video described for crossing the Atlantic, and that is why he is driving the pace may be too slow to save fuel. elling in that the waves would run 12 to 15 knots very well and I think he would be much better. they drove around 7 knots across the Atlantic a steady speed.