Selene Auction

[sunchaser]

You really are tempting me. Got my feelers out on this one, she is set up very nice. Cheers

Well if anyone on TF were to assess a Selene sans survey you're the one Crusty. As best I recall the 56 has a deeper hull design providing additional ER access.Is it stabilized?

 

[Stabi]

Something is missing from the story. Beautiful boat, I wouldn't be bothered by print through. If it was really bad it can be filled and painted.

The boat is in a salvage yard. That information alone tells you there is a bigger issue. I wouldn’t bid sight un seen and unless you have surveyor skills I wouldn’t bid with out a survey. As mentioned already, why would Selene let a warranty issue end up here, they wouldn’t, and how did a boat end up with 700 hours. There is a lot more to this story and if it was good, it wouldn’t be in a salvage yard.

If you read down on the description, The owner took delivery of the vessel. The bleed was noticed, was repainted not to the owners satisfaction. The owner and his insurance company came to a settlement. The owner was paid by the insurance company for the vessel. Cooper is just the broker for the insurance company. They do not own the vessel. They are charging 12% added to your bid for this service. No survey is allowed, Full Payment is usually required in 48 to 72 hrs after the acceptance letter is signed within 24 hrs of your emailed notice of high bid accepted by the insurance company.

There is more to this story than Paint! Either Cooper Capital does not know the entire story, which I have a hard time believing, or they are not disclosing the history of this boat.

 

[BruceK]

How is a build defect an insurance peril? If not,is there another story?

 

[Knot Fast]

My read is that you will only be permitted a visual inspection. No systems will be turned on. Maybe shore power, 12v electronics, heat and ac can be turned on. Not engine, gen, thrusters, windlass, stabilizers or many others. No sea trial. No bottom inspection unless they let you dive at the boat. But, its only 3y old so how bad could it be? Any accident history? I'd assume $100K for surprises + the print thru issue.

5'8" draft means it's not a great boat for FL. Air draft is not mentioned; it might not loop unless the mast folds down. OP is in CT; boat is in PNW. Looks like a great PNW boat.

 

[OPUS]

Thanks to all TF members for your comments on the Selene. Lots of great information for me to consider if I move forward with a bid. My biggest concern involved structural hull damage which no one seems to think is an issue. I emailed the yard in an attempt to find a contact there who knows the boat and it’s history. I’m going to call the salvage company tomorrow to see what information they are sharing with potential bidders. I assumed Selene would not want to comment on the boat but will also reach out to them for any history they are willing to share.

If I receive positive results from my inquiries the next step would be to fly to the west coast to meet a surveyor and spend a day or 2 going through the boats systems and hull issues. Not thrilled about that trip given COVID-19.

Worried that if the boat checks out as stated by the salvage firm that it will sell well above the $450k minimum and mostly likely beyond our budget. Interestingly the sale did not show up on any of my previous searches. Guessing that many professionals who monitor the salvage market and some local buyers will be bidding.

I also share the concerns from a number of posters as to the hours and why the boat went to salvage. As a number of folks have said it sounds to good to be true!

 

[Comodave]

It looks pretty nice to me!!! But who knows what the story is or isn’t. Unfortunately it is above my budget and on the wrong coast. But it would be a heck of a trip back home.

 

[tiltrider1]

After looking at the photos I’m thinking the issue is cosmetic. I’m guessing that the auction results might be part of the settlement. I’m also thinking that this boat is going for far more than $450,000. I’m still bothered by a statement of minor fiberglass damage that I read in the add. Possible the boat was damaged and repaired or that they are referring to the print through, I’m unclear. I still think there is more to the story but I now think it has less to do with the condition of the boat.

 

[lwarden]

I'm headed up to Anacortes Thursday night. My boat is stored right next door to Pacific Marine Center so I will see if I can poke my head in and take a look at it.
I will relay what I see if I can get into the yard. Things are pretty open up there so it's quite likely I can see it up close.

 

[Comodave]

I'm headed up to Anacortes Thursday night. My boat is stored right next door to Pacific Marine Center so I will see if I can poke my head in and take a look at it.
I will relay what I see if I can get into the yard. Things are pretty open up there so it's quite likely I can see it up close.

Make an appointment. It would be interesting to have someone look at it and see what it looks like.

 

[ksanders]

Here’s what I think is happening.

The owner bought it, and used it. The “print through” was claimed at some point post sale as a warranty issue.

The factory could not make repairs to the owners satisfaction, so they negotiated to either buy the boat back or replace it to satisfy the owners warranty claim.

The boat is now being auctioned as is where is. The salvage company is probably acting as just the auctioneer for the manufacturer, or the manufacturers insurance company. The boat is being sold as salvage to eliminate any future liability risk to the manufacturer. There is a chance that the manufacturer sold the boat to the salvage company as “scrap” to further remove themselves from any potential liability.

 

[moparharn]

My guess is the PO is extremely difficult to work with, has plenty of money to pay lawyers with, and really wants something other than to be made whole. This would have been settled by now if it was simply a matter of compensating him for the visual defect.

FWIW- some of the very best hulls I have seen throughout my life have had print through. Chris Craft and Bertram come immediately to mind. These are also two brands of boat that historically are the most long lived in the industry. I like print through as long as it is consistent. You can't re-create it and thus will know if the hull has had any repair. I am not saying it is the best way to build a boat, but it does show up often on well made older boats. Not sure I have seen it in vinylester. Bill

 

[bayview]

In my experience auctions rarely produce bargains. That minimum bid is doing what it was intended to do, stir up interest.

 

[BandB]

In my experience auctions rarely produce bargains. That minimum bid is doing what it was intended to do, stir up interest.

Yes and you don't go expecting a bargain but just prepared to take advantage of that rare one that is there.

 

[Crusty Chief]

My guess is that it will probably go for far, far more than the opening bid. The boat was used and traveled up north a couple seasons. We are not looking at this boat seriously as it would put us behind a year or two on our cruising plans.

But she is extremely well set up with just about every option an owner could possible want. A true one off by Selene. As stated above, this type of defect is out there on lots of boats, and after spending close to 2 Mil if the paint finish wasent resolved I would be not be a happy camper either. If I were to get this boat at a bargain price, I think a wrap in a lighter shade of green would resolve the “Print through” issue’s.

Anyway, I hope she gets a new owner that will use and enjoy her for many years as we have on ours.

Cheers

 

[Island15]

Ok!
I when by and had a look. On both the port and starboard side from the lower rub rail to the upper rub rail where the green is (this may be hard to explain sorry) .
If you took a big piece of aluminum foil and wrinkled it up about every 6 to 8 inches and then tried to flatten it by pushing down on a flat surface, that is what it looks like
Most of the way from bow to stern.
I don't think this is an easy fix! But I'm a carpenter!

 

[Brisyboy]

Ok!
I when by and had a look. On both the port and starboard side from the lower rub rail to the upper rub rail where the green is (this may be hard to explain sorry) .
If you took a big piece of aluminum foil and wrinkled it up about every 6 to 8 inches and then tried to flatten it by pushing down on a flat surface, that is what it looks like
Most of the way from bow to stern.
I don't think this is an easy fix! But I'm a carpenter!

So......this deepens the mystery............your description tells that the problem was quite obvious....if so, how did it leave the factory like that..........surely their final inspection would have picked that up?

 

[GH41]

It almost sounds like there was something wrong with the resin recipe. Maybe Selene painted it once and the problem came back. That would explain the age and hour thing. That would be enough for me If I had the means to fight it. Liability doesn't go away if it is construction defect.

 

[Island15]

As I drove up to the boat I noticed it from about thirty feet away!
Of course I was looking for it!

 

[BandB]

Maybe they took a small problem and in trying to fix it turned it into a major one.

 

[Beaverlake]

As to the suggestions to wrap the hull - the defects would most likely “print through”. Wrapping vinyl is quite thin and elastic and the adhesives, once set, are fairly aggressive. The wrap would not mask the deformations.

 

[SoWhat]

if the gelcoat was too thin it would alligator. 6" might match the spray pattern. Boat would have to go back to China for repairs. From a manufacturing cost perspective, it might be cheaper to give customer another boat and auction the defective hull to recoup costs.

If so, it's likely cosmetic but who wants to spend 1/2 Mil on an ugly boat.

 

[GH41]

As to the suggestions to wrap the hull - the defects would most likely “print through”. Wrapping vinyl is quite thin and elastic and the adhesives, once set, are fairly aggressive. The wrap would not mask the deformations.

Don't forget fragile. The only reason I would wrap a boat is if someone was paying me to advertise something.

 

[Island15]

I think it would be hard to notice if it were White instead of a dark color!

 

[sunchaser]

The tricky part about an auction boat is financing, no survey and insurance. Sure, self insured and a line of credit can cover it. For those who like a well faired boat, Hummmm.

 

[twistedtree]

It almost sounds like there was something wrong with the resin recipe. Maybe Selene painted it once and the problem came back. That would explain the age and hour thing. That would be enough for me If I had the means to fight it. Liability doesn't go away if it is construction defect.

It's indeed sounding like a seriously defective layup, and would explain why some insurance company wrote it off as a total constructive loss.


I would be VERY suspicious of it.

 

[ddw36]

This situation sounds much like when storage facilities put up certain failed accounts for bids. No one knows what's inside, so bid at risk. Sometimes a bonanza, sometimes nothing.

 

[menzies]

So you guys that understand the build process.

If the fiberglass out of the mold is fine isn't the gelcoat just cosmetic and not a structural issue? Wouldn't you be able to do a full survey, which of course would include a write up on the bad gelcoat, and wouldn't insurance be available if everything else on the survey passes muster, with gelcost issues excluded?

The risk seems to be having to wait until after purchase to do the survey, but if fine you should be able to insure it?

 

[BandB]

So you guys that understand the build process.

If the fiberglass out of the mold is fine isn't the gelcoat just cosmetic and not a structural issue? Wouldn't you be able to do a full survey, which of course would include a write up on the bad gelcoat, and wouldn't insurance be available if everything else on the survey passes muster, with gelcost issues excluded?

The risk seems to be having to wait until after purchase to do the survey, but if fine you should be able to insure it?

I think the boat can be repaired and made nearly new. However, lots of dollars and time to do so. If you buy at $400k are you still happy spending $100k or $200k on it? Now, the problem selling it new is that a boat that has that amount of work done on it is still a problem boat. If I bought it as new, you could repair all you wanted but I wouldn't be happy with it and wouldn't accept it.

Another issue is that we don't even know they'll accept $400k. These are not absolute auctions but have reserves somethings that are higher than the minimum bid. If I was in the PNW, I'd try to get someone from Delta to accompany me and look at it. They are the best equipped I know for fixing it and repairing other builder's issues is not something new to them by any means.

 

[sunchaser]

BB
Good point about Delta. A wild thought, Chinese vinyl ester or improper mold release protocols.

 

[bligh]

What if the gelcoat problem is that not enough resin was used to cure the gelcoat? Then you would have a real problem of trying to remove uncured gelcoat off a boat before you can even prep it properly. Or worse, what if there are uncured spots of fiberglass? Something catastrophic could be going on with this hull that we are unaware of. Dont ask me how i know this can happen.