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Old 09-24-2018, 06:42 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by caltexflanc View Post
No, that's not "the thing" at all. "The thing" is the ability to support owners of the boats per all the items I listed. Look how many threads we have here of owners of no longer supported brands looking for all that information.

I was so grateful I bought a Hatteras for those very reasons. Between the factory and the spin off of the parts department (Sam's Marine) I had support for a 30 year old boat that was virtually equal to a new boat.
Again, I disagree. The things you mentioned are useful, "schematics, parts lists, drawings, electrical diagrams, owners manuals etc etc." but any decent electronics guy, wiring guy, mechanic, hands-on owner can work those things out in a couple of hours. Not having access to those things should never stop a prospective buyer from buying a boat.
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Old 09-24-2018, 08:14 PM   #22
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Is there an Alaskan forum site?
BTW, the GA owners are on the DeFever owners club site.
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Old 09-24-2018, 08:42 PM   #23
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Selene 53 vs Alaskan 56

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Here's the thing. Apart from the hull and woodwork, everything on a boat is manufactured by a third party. Whether the boat manufacturer is in business or not is mostly immaterial IMO.
Some truth to that. I now own a Little Harbor 36 WhisperJet - purchased for well under $100k. I’m happy, knew what I was getting into (Kevlar in your laminate anyone?) but they’re gone. Maybe if you have Ted’s “Through Eye and Hand” you’ll run into them. But the company that bought them out (and closed them down) sells at a bit of a premium. Hinckley.
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Old 09-24-2018, 09:01 PM   #24
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Here’s my take.
No matter who originally built the boat, if the owner/owners didn’t maintain or upgrade it, its gonna cost a ton of boat bucks to get her sea worthy again.
In my travels, Ive seen so many well made boats go to hell. I take pride in my boat and try to treat her as best as I can, and yes, that requires spending money.
The owners that take pride in there baby shows, but they use it.
So, when shopping for your dream, wouldn’t it be nice if you could go back a few months or years and actually look at her, before it goes on the market?
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Old 09-26-2018, 08:37 AM   #25
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Selene vs, Grand Alaskan

Dear TG:

At the risk of sounding hyperbolic or like a used car salesman, I believe no one knows more about Selenes than myself including Howard Chen. Beginning in 1998 when I was Ted Hood's General Manager, we got involved with these boats. The early boats were disasters. I personally helped with the design, engineering and construction. Many of the drawings were done in Rhode Island with Jet-Tern's title box. I was at Jet-Tern every three or four weeks for many years and generally left an expert in a different trade from our yard in the interim. Over time, the boats improved and we took substantial market share from Nordhavn, Kadey-Krogen and others. I attended MIT for a Masters in Marine Engineering and Naval Architecture, have held a Merchant License for nearly 40 years and have supervised the design and construction of all sorts of yachts.

As an important part of our business is yacht brokerage, we have helped a number of our clients also purchase Grand Alaskans in the past. In our experience their boats vary significantly according to the original buyer's requirements, due diligence and the financial health of the distributor.

I would welcome the opportunity to discuss in greater detail and review your requirements off line or on the phone. We will also be exhibiting at Baltimore Trawler Fest and I will be a featured speaker this week.


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Old 09-26-2018, 09:08 AM   #26
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John, were those "early boats..." Solos?
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Old 09-26-2018, 10:01 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by JOHN CLAYMAN View Post

As an important part of our business is yacht brokerage, we have helped a number of our clients also purchase Grand Alaskans in the past. In our experience their boats vary significantly according to the original buyer's requirements, due diligence and the financial health of the distributor.

John Clayman
John

Great to see you here. Keep an eye on us fledglings.

One nice thing about the GAs and DeFevers - ER space. But not everything about them is even close to perfect. Remembering of course they are largely 20+ year old designs.

On point, hopefully, I remain mystified as to why Selene designs:
- Do not have ERs that are more spacious,
- largely free of access hazards,
- less intrusive fuel tank design
- and with lesser powered and size wise smaller engines.

These were most of issues that kept us from buying a new deep design Selene 58 a couple of years ago. Once out of the ER, we loved the vessel.
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Old 09-28-2018, 12:58 PM   #28
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2004 Selene

I have a Selene 53’ that is larger than what we need. A Mainship would suit us better if your interested in working a deal. It is in Morehead City NC. The condition is top notch and recently bottom painted. The Bow/Stern Thrusters, electronics, Cummins single, Yanmar wing engines, etc. Let me know if your interested. John
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Old 09-28-2018, 01:07 PM   #29
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The boats are the same overall length as I recall. We bought Selene after sea trialing both. Much better in our opinion.
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Old 09-29-2018, 02:19 AM   #30
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JSBRAGA - Selene 53?

Sorry, I don't mean to hijack this thread...
Greetings JSBRAGA. Are you looking for something a little smaller? I'm possibly looking for a Selene 53. My email: yahtng@ail.com
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Old 09-29-2018, 07:37 AM   #31
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Quote:
The things you mentioned are useful, "schematics, parts lists, drawings, electrical diagrams, owners manuals etc etc." but any decent electronics guy, wiring guy, mechanic, hands-on owner can work those things out in a couple of hours.
On boats this large and complex? Baloney! And I speak from first hand experience with a number of other people's boats trying to help them (and some very "decent" tradesmen) sort things out. Not to mention running down PO-installed systems on my own boat. The support available from Hatteras and their spun-off parts department Sam's Marine did, and very well may again, make a major difference in my boat selection.
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Old 09-29-2018, 08:30 AM   #32
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Selene 53 vs Alaskan 56'

Both are great vessels in their own right. The only issue with the Selene (if pre- built 2007) you may want to check are the tanks. (Water, holding and fuel) to see if they hold what they say they do.

Selena was hit with a lawsuit for over stating the tanks holding capacities. They listed them higher then what they really were.


https://www.soundingsonline.com/news...sue-in-lawsuit

Best of luck to you.

Cheers.

H.
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Old 09-29-2018, 08:32 AM   #33
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CFlex
Thread drift to Hatteras aside, I'm not seeing anyone disagreeing with you. But you do raise a valid point about good documentation. Today's new builds in the size range the OP raised should indeed have a good set of near as built drawings for factory electrical, mechanical, piping, cabins and hull.

These CAD programs all too often are not requested by the buyer as final deliverables. This is why a very good buyer's agent should be utilized. Quite often the buyer's agent is associated with a top flight yard or commissioning group that takes delivery of new said vessel and correctly brings all documentation together so final field additions and initial warranty items can be dealt with prior to owner handoff.

In this regard, a higher volume vessel like a newer Selene should have a very good paper trail. Or for that matter Nordhavn, AT, Ranger Tug, Helmsman etc.

On older low volume vessels like a Grand Alaskan the absence of these types of documents should present no problems for a smart owner, skilled tradesmen or good yard. A bad yard with a perfect set of as built drawings can screw anything up. So choose your help wisely and no matter what the issue a top flight job will result.
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Old 09-29-2018, 02:01 PM   #34
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First, I thank those of you who paid me a compliment.

Most of the comments I read regarding Selene and Alaskan are spot on. Both boats are/were of good quality. Selene did have some occasional quality issues caused by turnover at the factory and having inexperienced workers. They also had blister problems off and on. Interestingly, some showed up on the superstructure. A good surveyor should be employed for a pre-purchase inspection of a Selene and even an Alaskan, for that matter.

Brian Calvert, now managing our brokerage office in Subic Bay, Philippines, was a partner at Friday Harbor Yacht Sales. FHYS was the first Selene dealer in the US (1999). The early boats were Solo 43s, designed by Harvey Halvorsen of Kong and Halvorsen, then later, Island Gypsy fame, and built by Jet Tern. Soon, the hull was stretched and the Solo 47 came about. At some point, early on, Harvey parted ways with Jet Tern and the brand was renamed Selene. Early Solo owners were offered a branding kit to change over their Solos to Selenes. Many did. Brian may chime in and offer more information than I as he was there living it. I was just an observer.

Alaskans (formerly Grand Alaskan), designed by Art DeFever were developed by Gary Oviatt (Oviatt Marine). There were some 65+ boats built of various lengths, 53' to 80' by Tania in Kaohsiung, Taiwan. Some were flush decks and some were raised pilothouse models. Oviatt Marine succumbed to the economic downturn and declared bankruptcy in 2009 or 2010. At the time of the bankruptcy, John and Jackie Murray had an Alaskan 65 under construction. In order to get the boat finished, they purchased the assets and thought, why not build another, this time, a 70 footer. Many will notice the Alaskans, especially the 65' and 70' strongly resemble Outer Reef's early models. This, because after Oviatt moved his production to another yard (~2006), Tania began building the Outer Reef's.

Well, the economy did not improve right away and the market for new boats was still very soft for several years. (Some would say it is still soft in certain segments.) As the years went by, the Murray's devoted more time and energy toward other interests and Alaskan stagnated.

In 2016, my wife, Jan and I became friends with the Murray's (they are wonderful people) and decided to try and help them bring the brand back as a dealer/distributor. In early 2018, it was decided that the brand needed a face lift if it were to succeed. In order to do that, a significant investment would be needed and we couldn't justify that unless we had more control. It was decided we would make an offer to purchase the brand. We did and the offer was accepted.

We immediately engaged our old friend, Steve Seaton, to modernize the designs. We decided to keep many of the DeFever design features, but "Seatonize" them a bit. We are still in the process but have preliminary profiles and sample general arrangements for 53', 57' and 66' models completed.

So that is what I know.......hope it clears up some thing for some of you.
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Old 09-29-2018, 03:02 PM   #35
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First, I thank those of you who paid me a compliment.

Most of the comments I read regarding Selene and Alaskan are spot on. Both boats are/were of good quality. Selene did have some occasional quality issues caused by turnover at the factory and having inexperienced workers. They also had blister problems off and on. Interestingly, some showed up on the superstructure. A good surveyor should be employed for a pre-purchase inspection of a Selene and even an Alaskan, for that matter.

Brian Calvert, now managing our brokerage office in Subic Bay, Philippines, was a partner at Friday Harbor Yacht Sales. FHYS was the first Selene dealer in the US (1999). The early boats were Solo 43s, designed by Harvey Halvorsen of Kong and Halvorsen, then later, Island Gypsy fame, and built by Jet Tern. Soon, the hull was stretched and the Solo 47 came about. At some point, early on, Harvey parted ways with Jet Tern and the brand was renamed Selene. Early Solo owners were offered a branding kit to change over their Solos to Selenes. Many did. Brian may chime in and offer more information than I as he was there living it. I was just an observer.

Alaskans (formerly Grand Alaskan), designed by Art DeFever were developed by Gary Oviatt (Oviatt Marine). There were some 65+ boats built of various lengths, 53' to 80' by Tania in Kaohsiung, Taiwan. Some were flush decks and some were raised pilothouse models. Oviatt Marine succumbed to the economic downturn and declared bankruptcy in 2009 or 2010. At the time of the bankruptcy, John and Jackie Murray had an Alaskan 65 under construction. In order to get the boat finished, they purchased the assets and thought, why not build another, this time, a 70 footer. Many will notice the Alaskans, especially the 65' and 70' strongly resemble Outer Reef's early models. This, because after Oviatt moved his production to another yard (~2006), Tania began building the Outer Reef's.

Well, the economy did not improve right away and the market for new boats was still very soft for several years. (Some would say it is still soft in certain segments.) As the years went by, the Murray's devoted more time and energy toward other interests and Alaskan stagnated.

In 2016, my wife, Jan and I became friends with the Murray's (they are wonderful people) and decided to try and help them bring the brand back as a dealer/distributor. In early 2018, it was decided that the brand needed a face lift if it were to succeed. In order to do that, a significant investment would be needed and we couldn't justify that unless we had more control. It was decided we would make an offer to purchase the brand. We did and the offer was accepted.

We immediately engaged our old friend, Steve Seaton, to modernize the designs. We decided to keep many of the DeFever design features, but "Seatonize" them a bit. We are still in the process but have preliminary profiles and sample general arrangements for 53', 57' and 66' models completed.

So that is what I know.......hope it clears up some thing for some of you.
Thanks Peter. I see the first model will be at shows in 2020, looking forward to getting on board. From the images I saw I noticed a well rounded upper bow and I believe that the pilot house is no longer raised?
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Old 09-29-2018, 03:24 PM   #36
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There will be the raised pilothouse version......just haven't gotten to it yet. I have had Steve (Seaton) slaving away to finish all the details for the Northwest 63 we are laying up in early October.

I know some of the articles written say there will be an Alaskan for 2020 but it will depend upon what happens with the NW63 and potential pending orders. You know how writers can be......sometimes overly optimistic.
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Old 09-29-2018, 06:52 PM   #37
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Thank you all for your replies....great things to know....

John (JSBRAGA) I am interested in your 53, please contact me at ttrawlins@aol.com. My Mainship 400 is a single with bow and stern thrusters located in CT.

Thanks

T.G.
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Old 10-01-2018, 08:06 AM   #38
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Plenty of Selenes have twins. When I ordered my Selene 55 in 2008, there were eight Selenes on order on the East Coast That were all twins. I chose a single Cummins 405 QSL with an hydraulic drive get home powered by the 20 kW NL genset. Great combination.
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Old 10-01-2018, 10:09 AM   #39
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Hi Mike,

After seeing you arrive at Mystic Seaport a few years ago in your Selene, I have been interested in them since... We both had golden retrievers and spoke at the seaport. Since there are so few 53's available, we plan to look at an Alaskan as an alternative....
this one has larger twin C12 engines with less hrs than a similar aged Selenes, but Alaskans lack opening windows which I am concerned with (we anchor out mostly)...... Happy cruising!
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Old 10-01-2018, 10:16 AM   #40
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Hi Mike,

Alaskans lack opening windows which I am concerned with (we anchor out mostly)...... Happy cruising!
Do you mean the salon windows, our 53 has sliding salon windows?
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