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Old 03-19-2019, 04:42 AM   #41
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Good luck with your search. Iím a Lake Michigan boaters as well. 1-3 footers is typical on the lake. I prefer a planning hull and a little more speed especially when the the waves kick up. As the kids get older they will start bugging you for more speed to pull that tube around. Time for a jet ski.
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Old 03-19-2019, 05:22 AM   #42
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A Fleming? Access to the flybridge and engines is the best.
Humm. I've found the F55 ER access to be the vessel's Achilles heel. The only one mind you. The F58 solved this problem.
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Old 03-19-2019, 06:29 AM   #43
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Time for some truth in advertising, for the length.
Stop looking at the OAL and start looking at the WLL.
I think the only people who really like the OAL is the broker, folks at the marinas when they rent you a slip by the foot, the tax man. I had a swim platform designed and installed on my N46. The swim platform did not make it a 48.5 or 49 ft Nordhavn.
I have yet to meet anyone who will sleep on the swim platform especially during the winter nor an 80f+ night.
OAL does not mean squat. WLL is a bit more realistic.
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Old 03-19-2019, 06:35 AM   #44
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Humm. I've found the F55 ER access to be the vessel's Achilles heel. The only one mind you. The F58 solved this problem.
I toured an F55 at the last san Diego Boat show and it was "beautiful" until I saw the ER. If I was 40 years younger I could make it work....but I'm not!
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Old 03-19-2019, 07:46 AM   #45
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This thread seems to be veering off track a bit. The OP started out asking about two boats in the 36-37' range... and someone mentions a Fleming 55 ?? No disrespect to Fleming but you can't compare a 55 and then complain that a 37' boat has poor access and space, just sayin.....
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Old 03-19-2019, 09:09 AM   #46
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Time for some truth in advertising, for the length.
Stop looking at the OAL and start looking at the WLL.
I think the only people who really like the OAL is the broker, folks at the marinas when they rent you a slip by the foot, the tax man. I had a swim platform designed and installed on my N46. The swim platform did not make it a 48.5 or 49 ft Nordhavn.
I have yet to meet anyone who will sleep on the swim platform especially during the winter nor an 80f+ night.
OAL does not mean squat. WLL is a bit more realistic.
You're not referring to WLL. WLL is Waterline length and is significantly shorter. You're referring to deck length or LOA without platform and bow pulpit. Every builder discloses that length, just have to read it.

Now, to the Flemings. Fleming 55 is 55'9" without and 60'9" with platform and pulpit with 16' beam. Fleming 58 is 62'9" without and 65'9" with and 17'6" beam. Fleming 65 is 67'4" without and 70'10" with and 18'8" beam. So, the 58 is closer to the 65 in size than to the 55 in size. Why they didn't label it a 62 or 60 or something I have no idea. Just it's a significant step up from the 55.
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Old 03-19-2019, 10:21 AM   #47
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I'm completely biased and therefore suggest that before you finalize your decision you give an American Tug serious consideration. We love ours. There is a robust owners' group and the company provides amazing technical support.
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Old 03-19-2019, 04:32 PM   #48
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Yes BandB I am referring to WaterLine Length. You are correct it is much shorter than OAL. Let's honest in the description of any boat. My American Tug 2008 is documented as a 34 ft. Yet the new ATs are documented as a 36 including the swim platform. This is a common practice of all newer boats.
Perhaps the only boat design which is honest about OAL and WLL is a barge.
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Old 03-19-2019, 04:55 PM   #49
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Selene 36 or 37 Nordic Tug

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Originally Posted by Jim Cooper View Post

A full-displacement hull will be capable of maintaining speeds in the 7- to l2-knot range while burning a minimum of fuel.
.

This is kind of a silly statement without providing the length of the boat they are talking about. Hull speed on a FD hull is a factor of the waterline length of the hull.

HS = 1.34 x √LWL

As written it seems they are saying there is no FD hull that goes over 12 knots or under 6 knots.
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Old 03-19-2019, 08:24 PM   #50
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Yes BandB I am referring to WaterLine Length. You are correct it is much shorter than OAL. Let's honest in the description of any boat. My American Tug 2008 is documented as a 34 ft. Yet the new ATs are documented as a 36 including the swim platform. This is a common practice of all newer boats.
Perhaps the only boat design which is honest about OAL and WLL is a barge.
Waterline length is typically much shorter as in an AT 365 where it is 32'6". Typically shown as LWL. The waterline length of a Fleming 55 is 50'10", a Fleming 58 is 56'8" and a Fleming 65 is 61'11". I've never known any builder to use waterline length. It's only used by most of us to calculate hull speed or displacement speed. The most commonly used measurements are LOA (including pulpit and platform) and LOA without pulpit and platform, often referred to as deck length. But deck length is still much greater than waterline length.
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Old 03-19-2019, 08:42 PM   #51
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Waterline length is typically much shorter as in an AT 365 where it is 32'6". Typically shown as LWL. The waterline length of a Fleming 55 is 50'10", a Fleming 58 is 56'8" and a Fleming 65 is 61'11". I've never known any builder to use waterline length. It's only used by most of us to calculate hull speed or displacement speed. The most commonly used measurements are LOA (including pulpit and platform) and LOA without pulpit and platform, often referred to as deck length. But deck length is still much greater than waterline length.
Yes, the deck length is called Over All Length which includes bow pulpit and the swim platform.
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Old 03-19-2019, 09:03 PM   #52
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Yes, the deck length is called Over All Length which includes bow pulpit and the swim platform.
No, deck length does not included the bow pulpit or swim platform. They are not part of the deck.

LOA does include them, but nearly all boats also disclose a separate LOA without them.
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Old 03-20-2019, 03:11 AM   #53
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hi Reelarure,


Both boats Selene vs NT 37 are definitely perfect for your water.


Go both long sea trial and think about living space, kitchen, toilet / shower, two big differences lay out and NT can move faster if you want, maximum speed cummins qsb 380 hp you can keep 14-15knots all day 1.1nm / Gal and about +300 nm, another difference is run slowly NT well designed hull drive really low fuel consuptions exaples 6,2kn +2200nm one refuiling.


NBs
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Old 03-20-2019, 04:50 AM   #54
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No, deck length does not included the bow pulpit or swim platform. They are not part of the deck.

LOA does include them, but nearly all boats also disclose a separate LOA without them.
BandB, let's assume you and I are not marina operators or dock masters collecting rent, by the foot.

Please understand, I am not being critical nor criticizing you at all.... I for one and maybe others are seeking the final and exact definitions and location of each measurement.

I will admit, I have never heard the term of "deck length" until you mentioned it.

So now, please identify the various lengths from the WL (the lowest point of the boot top) upward, excluding any bulbous underwater protrusion. We can discuss that after we all define the other measurements.

Permit me to start with a question. Does the water line length, WLL, include or exclude the swim platform if the swim platform drags in the water when the boat is underway?

May I suggest, the "beam" is defined as the maximum width aka navigational beam. (Submarines had two definitions of 'beams'. The maximum width of the pressure hull containing livable space of the submarine, and the navigational beam, the outer skin of the hull. The part that hits first. SMIRK

I think we are all guilty of using terms without an exact definition.
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Old 03-20-2019, 08:33 AM   #55
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BandB, let's assume you and I are not marina operators or dock masters collecting rent, by the foot.

Please understand, I am not being critical nor criticizing you at all.... I for one and maybe others are seeking the final and exact definitions and location of each measurement.

I will admit, I have never heard the term of "deck length" until you mentioned it.

So now, please identify the various lengths from the WL (the lowest point of the boot top) upward, excluding any bulbous underwater protrusion. We can discuss that after we all define the other measurements.

Permit me to start with a question. Does the water line length, WLL, include or exclude the swim platform if the swim platform drags in the water when the boat is underway?

May I suggest, the "beam" is defined as the maximum width aka navigational beam. (Submarines had two definitions of 'beams'. The maximum width of the pressure hull containing livable space of the submarine, and the navigational beam, the outer skin of the hull. The part that hits first. SMIRK

I think we are all guilty of using terms without an exact definition.
There are very exact definitions.

The waterline length (originally Load Waterline Length, abbreviated to LWL) is the length of a ship or boat at the point where it sits in the water. It excludes the total length of the boat, such as features that are out of the water. Most boats rise outwards at the bow and stern, so a boat may be quite a bit longer than its waterline length. In a ship with such raked stems, naturally the waterline length changes as the draft of the ship changes, therefore it is measured from a defined loaded condition.

Length overall (LOA, o/a, o.a. or oa) is the maximum length of a vessel's hull measured parallel to the waterline. It is the length of a boat including projections such as swim platform and bow pulpit.

LOD or Length on Deck is used to distinguish the length of the hull itself without projections. It is the same as LOA without pulpit or platform. This has also been referred to as LOH or length of hull.
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Old 03-20-2019, 08:42 AM   #56
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There are very exact definitions.

The waterline length (originally Load Waterline Length, abbreviated to LWL) is the length of a ship or boat at the point where it sits in the water. It excludes the total length of the boat, such as features that are out of the water. Most boats rise outwards at the bow and stern, so a boat may be quite a bit longer than its waterline length. In a ship with such raked stems, naturally the waterline length changes as the draft of the ship changes, therefore it is measured from a defined loaded condition.

Length overall (LOA, o/a, o.a. or oa) is the maximum length of a vessel's hull measured parallel to the waterline. It is the length of a boat including projections such as swim platform and bow pulpit.

LOD or Length on Deck is used to distinguish the length of the hull itself without projections. It is the same as LOA without pulpit or platform. This has also been referred to as LOH or length of hull.
All these measurements are determined by the builder, either totally empty or 1/2 fuel and 1/2 water, I dont know which.
Many of the measurements are determined mathematically or measurement from the building plans.
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Old 03-22-2019, 06:09 AM   #57
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"LOA without pulpit and platform, often referred to as deck length"

Deck length is the most common number given for boat size , when paying for O'nite dock, or haul out.

Dink in davits, bow mounted anchor on roller mount , are the reason so many marinas come out with a measuring tape.
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