Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-01-2021, 11:02 AM   #1
Guru
 
porman's Avatar
 
City: Duvall, Wa. USA
Vessel Name: Beach Music II
Vessel Model: 2003 Mainship 430 Trawler
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,039
Seattle Waste Spill

Another spill from the West Point treatment plant. And it hasn't been raining so they can't blame it on that.
https://komonews.com/news/local/west...of-puget-sound
porman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2021, 01:37 PM   #2
Guru
 
kthoennes's Avatar
 
City: Sioux Falls, South Dakota
Vessel Name: Xanadu
Vessel Model: Mainship 37 Motor Yacht
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,471
Here we go again. Almost certainly a single spill "event" that exceeds all the actual and potential discharge from little recreational boats for a decade. Or more. Heck, this spill probably included boat pump-out contents. Oops.
kthoennes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2021, 01:57 PM   #3
Guru
 
Benthic2's Avatar
 
City: Boston Area
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,605
Quote:
Originally Posted by kthoennes View Post
Here we go again. Almost certainly a single spill "event" that exceeds all the actual and potential discharge from little recreational boats for a decade. Or more. Heck, this spill probably included boat pump-out contents. Oops.
What's the connection between recreational boat discharge and a sewage plant malfunction ?
Benthic2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2021, 04:26 PM   #4
Guru
 
hollywood8118's Avatar
 
City: Port Townsend Washington
Vessel Name: " OTTER "
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander Europa 40
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benthic2 View Post
What's the connection between recreational boat discharge and a sewage plant malfunction ?
We get a ton of crap from the greenies as we are all wealthy capitalist environmental terrorists for pumping a few marine toilets while The city of socialism.. oops I meant Seattle can dump millions of raw sewage a number of times a year and nobody gets their hemp panties in a knot.

Bittersweet irony is the connection

Hollywood
hollywood8118 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2021, 04:30 PM   #5
Guru
 
SteveK's Avatar
 
City: Gulf Islands, BC Canada
Vessel Name: Sea Sanctuary
Vessel Model: Bayliner 4588
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 4,993
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benthic2 View Post
What's the connection between recreational boat discharge and a sewage plant malfunction ?
The government: Do as I say, NOT as I do.
__________________
SteveK
You only need one working engine. That is why I have two.
Sea Sanctuary-new to me 1992 Bayliner 4588
SteveK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2021, 05:01 PM   #6
Guru
 
kthoennes's Avatar
 
City: Sioux Falls, South Dakota
Vessel Name: Xanadu
Vessel Model: Mainship 37 Motor Yacht
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,471
Yep, what Hollywood said. I know a million threads have beaten this to death, but it's so annoying and irrational that it keeps coming up. Regulations and legislatures treat recreational boat black water like plutonium, and meanwhile large scale operations spill millions of gallons every year and those same regulators just shrug. Only boaters would google this, but okay there it is -- looks like a single "discharge" from one whale is about 50 gallons, bigger than my 40-gallon holding tank. Okay, that's a blue whale, probably not a fair comparison. Even here, the city of Sioux Falls purposely pumped over a million gallons of sewage into the Big Sioux River in 2010 -- which despite its name is not big at all, it's knee deep in most places -- and that's just one discharge. Meanwhile they nag the residents about lawn fertilizer runoff and car wash soap in the storm drain system.
kthoennes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2021, 05:15 PM   #7
Guru
 
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft 381 Catalina
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 7,538
Telling people not to dump stuff is cheap. Fixing the big sources is expensive, so it's not too surprising that they go for the cheap option first.
rslifkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2021, 05:21 PM   #8
Guru
 
Benthic2's Avatar
 
City: Boston Area
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,605
I think the city's discharges are accidental. For this analogy to be correct it would have to compare how a recreational boater is treated if they have an accidental discharge. To just say the government did it, so we can do it is crazy. The government killed hundreds of thousands of civilians in WWII........by your reasoning now you should be able to kill a few here and there ?
Benthic2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2021, 05:23 PM   #9
Guru
 
City: Seaford Va on Poquoson River, VA
Vessel Name: Old Glory
Vessel Model: 1970 Egg Harbor 37 extended salon model
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,264
"Millions of gallons of wastewater have been spilled at the West Point Treatment Plant over the years, leading the Suquamish Tribe to threaten a lawsuit against King County for allegedly violating clean water laws."

When the sewage plants dump sewage (even deliberately) it is only an alleged violation, but when boaters do so accidently, it is an actual violation.
sdowney717 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2021, 05:55 PM   #10
Guru
 
firehoser75's Avatar
 
City: Nanaimo
Vessel Name: former owner of "Pilitak"
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,703
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benthic2 View Post
I think the city's discharges are accidental. For this analogy to be correct it would have to compare how a recreational boater is treated if they have an accidental discharge. To just say the government did it, so we can do it is crazy. The government killed hundreds of thousands of civilians in WWII........by your reasoning now you should be able to kill a few here and there ?
Yeah, so what is your point!!
I guess I am just in "one of those moods today".
In seriousness, I think the main "upset" for boaters is the fact that regularly the Government officials (both Countries) look for new regulations to put in place for "boater discharges", no matter how practical, expensive, or even sometimes next to impossible for boaters to follow, while Government run treatment plants and other Industries continue to have regular "accidents" that make boater discharges pale in comparison. That is to say nothing about all of the runoff from the land like farms, industrial sites, roads, etc. that actually make up the "lion's share" of the water pollution. They seem to take a "let's regulate the 0.001% of the problem (after all like Hollywood said all boaters are rich) and ignore 80% of the problem because it might not be popular or it might be expensive to fix.
Again, sometimes common sense is not common in the Governments.
__________________
Tom
Nanaimo, BC
firehoser75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2021, 06:11 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
City: Port Hope
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by kthoennes View Post
-- looks like a single "discharge" from one whale is about 50 gallons, bigger than my 40-gallon holding tank.
What is it's alternative other than to discharge it into the ocean?

However, I fully agree that boaters are too easy a target.
John R M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2021, 06:55 PM   #12
Guru
 
Benthic2's Avatar
 
City: Boston Area
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,605
Quote:
Originally Posted by firehoser75 View Post
...... and ignore 80% of the problem because it might not be popular or it might be expensive ....

From Kingcounty.gov:

"The King County Council on Tuesday approved a $65 million funding package to make critical upgrades to the West Point Wastewater Treatment Plant to prevent future bypass of untreated wastewater."

That hardly seems like they are ignoring it.
Benthic2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2021, 07:19 PM   #13
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Vermont
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 10,076
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benthic2 View Post
I think the city's discharges are accidental. For this analogy to be correct it would have to compare how a recreational boater is treated if they have an accidental discharge. To just say the government did it, so we can do it is crazy. The government killed hundreds of thousands of civilians in WWII........by your reasoning now you should be able to kill a few here and there ?


I think it’s about asking the cities to live up to the same standards as boaters are.
__________________
MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2021, 07:36 PM   #14
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,540
Greetings,
Like everything else, treatment plants work well, until they don't. The unfortunate part is, for whatever reason, most municipalities are reactive instead of being proactive.

If the upgrades necessary for the West Point facility are "critical", why wasn't that $65M allocated 3 or 4 years ago?
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2021, 07:56 PM   #15
Guru
 
firehoser75's Avatar
 
City: Nanaimo
Vessel Name: former owner of "Pilitak"
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,703
"That hardly seems like they are ignoring it."
So "upgrades" are needed to prevent "accidental" discharges that have occurred several times in the past and they are "just getting to those now"? Like RTF says, sounds "proactive" to me.

The ignoring I was actually talking about has nothing to do with this plant, but has everything to do with the largest sources of water pollution like farm runoff (fertilizer residue), roadway runoff, etc. etc. etc. They account for the majority of the problem, not boaters!
__________________
Tom
Nanaimo, BC
firehoser75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2021, 08:45 PM   #16
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
City: Sydney
Vessel Name: Sojourn
Vessel Model: Integrity 386
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 13,293
"Hypocrisy is the practice of engaging in the same behavior or activity for which one criticizes another or the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform"
__________________
BruceK
2005 Integrity 386 "Sojourn"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2021, 08:51 PM   #17
Guru
 
Benthic2's Avatar
 
City: Boston Area
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,605
So what's the alternative ?

Potty train the whales ?
Shut down the farms ?
Let boaters pump their crap overboard whenever and where ever they want ?
Benthic2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2021, 10:10 PM   #18
Veteran Member
 
City: New Orleans
Vessel Name: Czech Mate
Vessel Model: President 41
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 82
I'm pretty sure nobody is arguing for
"Let boaters pump their crap overboard whenever and where ever they want ?"
That is a distortion and exaggeration of the argument others are making in order to make your own stance/the city or state's stance appear more reasonable. The alternative would be to have the same rules governing discharges as the rest of the country. Or at the very least allow for treated waste (ie an approved marine sanitation device) to be discharged.
jsplichal2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2021, 04:51 AM   #19
Guru
 
City: Seaford Va on Poquoson River, VA
Vessel Name: Old Glory
Vessel Model: 1970 Egg Harbor 37 extended salon model
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,264
Agree with completely let boaters discharge treated waste. I have a Lectrasan and it works fine. Where I boat in Chesapeake Bay, we can do that. The farms around the bay discharge a million fold the amount all the potential boaters ever could. Peggy said a Lectrasna nutrient value discharge is same as a couple of oak leaves.

WHERE is the common sense... get the political emotions of politicians manipulating the facts out of boat waste.
sdowney717 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2021, 06:42 AM   #20
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,119
For as many boaters that go "eewwww" and wrinkle their noses at getting their hands dirty fixing their head systems or singing the praises of composting heads, AND not really understanding the type I and II MSD argument....

Not sure even most boaters can get behind the NDZ creep argument.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012