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Old 05-24-2022, 10:49 AM   #1
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Seattle to San Diego and back

I have been searching for anything related to snowbirding in San Diego in the winter and summers in PNW. I understand the differences between the east and west coasts. I do understand that the west coast can be more dangerous than the east side and the reasons. But I also know when to pick weather windows and you can transit up and down safely if you have the time to tuck in and wait it out.

The east coast has plenty that make the annual pilgrimage. Mind you most take the ICW and not exposed to open water. But trying to find anyone who does this on the west coast is practically impossible. Is it the fear of open water plus the inherent additional risks of the west coast that prevent boat owners from doing this? I know of the Coho ho but that is geared mostly for sailboats. For someone who is semi retired and works from the boat, I would think this would be an ideal plan for a few years anyways. Set aside the fact that dock space maybe isnít readily available is San Diego but it hasnít always been like that and I fell soon space will come available in many places.

Has anyone thought of doing this annually or every couple years?
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Old 05-24-2022, 11:26 AM   #2
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Plenty of cruisers travel the west coast annually.

There is no reason why any well found vessel cannot do it, just choose your weather windows and be aware of seasonal changes in the climate.

Ensenada is a place to consider as a snowbird destination, although you would probably be happier further south. Ensenada and San Diego have the same weather, but Ensenada is around half the price.
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Old 05-24-2022, 11:29 AM   #3
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I have been searching for anything related to snowbirding in San Diego in the winter and summers in PNW. I understand the differences between the east and west coasts. I do understand that the west coast can be more dangerous than the east side and the reasons. But I also know when to pick weather windows and you can transit up and down safely if you have the time to tuck in and wait it out.

The east coast has plenty that make the annual pilgrimage. Mind you most take the ICW and not exposed to open water. But trying to find anyone who does this on the west coast is practically impossible. Is it the fear of open water plus the inherent additional risks of the west coast that prevent boat owners from doing this? I know of the Coho ho but that is geared mostly for sailboats. For someone who is semi retired and works from the boat, I would think this would be an ideal plan for a few years anyways. Set aside the fact that dock space maybe isnít readily available is San Diego but it hasnít always been like that and I fell soon space will come available in many places.

Has anyone thought of doing this annually or every couple years?
If I found the boat of my dreams in the PNW I would want to visit AK in summer.
Then work south to be in Mexico by winter. But that's me. If San Diego is your
goal then there are pretty good anchoring options and transient slips should be
available when you need one.
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Old 05-24-2022, 11:48 AM   #4
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Plenty of cruisers travel the west coast annually.

There is no reason why any well found vessel cannot do it, just choose your weather windows and be aware of seasonal changes in the climate.

Ensenada is a place to consider as a snowbird destination, although you would probably be happier further south. Ensenada and San Diego have the same weather, but Ensenada is around half the price.
Yes Mexico is being considered as well. I just called Harbor West in SD and they have this ridiculous rule of no more than 3 days in a consecutive 7 you can be at the boat. Most marinas I see have 14 days over 30. I asked if they prorate the fee since we can only be in the boat 3 days a week max. She didnít see my humor.

But venturing into MX is planned. I picked SD in my post just as a reference.
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Old 05-24-2022, 11:53 AM   #5
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Yes Mexico is being considered as well. I just called Harbor West in SD and they have this ridiculous rule of no more than 3 days in a consecutive 7 you can be at the boat. Most marinas I see have 14 days over 30. I asked if they prorate the fee since we can only be in the boat 3 days a week max. She didnít see my humor.

But venturing into MX is planned. I picked SD in my post just as a reference.
Be at the boat or overnight on the boat?
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Old 05-24-2022, 12:02 PM   #6
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I have been searching for anything related to snowbirding in San Diego in the winter and summers in PNW. I understand the differences between the east and west coasts. I do understand that the west coast can be more dangerous than the east side and the reasons. But I also know when to pick weather windows and you can transit up and down safely if you have the time to tuck in and wait it out.

The east coast has plenty that make the annual pilgrimage. Mind you most take the ICW and not exposed to open water. But trying to find anyone who does this on the west coast is practically impossible. Is it the fear of open water plus the inherent additional risks of the west coast that prevent boat owners from doing this? I know of the Coho ho but that is geared mostly for sailboats. For someone who is semi retired and works from the boat, I would think this would be an ideal plan for a few years anyways. Set aside the fact that dock space maybe isnít readily available is San Diego but it hasnít always been like that and I fell soon space will come available in many places.

Has anyone thought of doing this annually or every couple years?
The east coast paradigm of "snowbirding" is simply not common practice between SoCal (including Ensenada) and the PNW. Multiple reasons:

The trip has VERY limited "cruising" destinations between SoCal and the PNW. Sure, plenty of harbors of refuge, fuel, transient moorage, etc. but little of interest along the way. Spending quality time in locations such as Coos Bay are not on my bucket list. Bodega Bay, Grays Harbor, Pillar Point, etc.-ditto.

The weather and sea conditions for the majority of the year are challenging, to say the least. This is open water cruising, and far, far from the concept of motoring the Intercoastal Waterway on an annual basis. I don't know what your "Coho ho" alludes to, but if you've ever attempted to round Point Mendocino northbound, you'd better have your big-boy pants on. Not for the faint of heart, or novice boater.

Moorage, particularly for long-term liveaboarding, is limited at either end of the SoCal-PNW string. Particularly the southern end. And, once moorage is found at either end, giving it up to snowbird with the expectation of re-acquiring the same moorage next year, or in two years, or... is naive. Sure, Ensenada is a potential destination. You may find long-term moorage there, for less cost than in-CONUS. But then, you'd be in Mexico.

So, in direct answer to your query, yup, trying to find someone that does this trek annually is difficult, as few do so, for many, many good reasons. An occasional delivery between these two ends of the CONUS is certainly do-able. But having stayed put in SoCal for decades, and now in the PNW for more decades, with multiple trips between-I'll stay put. Little to recommend for the commute.

Regards,

Pete
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Old 05-24-2022, 12:07 PM   #7
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There is not great cruising along the West Coast. SF Bay and Delta regions are the best until you get to the PNW. After that, you have to go to the Sea of Cortez which is a loooong haul to PNW.

For pure livingaboard for Snowbirding, San Diego is nice. You may want to also look at Marina del Rey - there are a ton of marinas there and it's closer to Channel Islands which is a worth destination of you're into desolate cruising. Both San Diego and MDR are close to major airports so access in/out is pretty good. Liveaboard will always be frowned upon, though the rules are setup to prevent people seeking cheap housing. You probably won't find too much enforcement of a retiree hanging out at the boat for a while, but you won't know until you're already committed.

The winter weather in SoCal may be better than PNW, but it's still not great. If you're expecting shorts/tee-shirt/flip-flops, you'll be disappointed. Even today in Ensenada temperature probably won't get out of the 60s.

Theres a lot to be said for Ensenada, but it's a far cry from San Diego so while the costs are much less, it's not for every taste.

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Old 05-24-2022, 12:12 PM   #8
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Plenty of cruisers travel the west coast annually.

There is no reason why any well found vessel cannot do it, just choose your weather windows and be aware of seasonal changes in the climate.

Ensenada is a place to consider as a snowbird destination, although you would probably be happier further south. Ensenada and San Diego have the same weather, but Ensenada is around half the price.
WOW! Now THERE's a broad brush! "Plenty of cruisers travel the west coast annually." Uh, maybe, if your idea of the "west coast" is the inside passage. Not so much the coasts of WA, OR, and northern CA.

And agree-well found vessels can and do make that transit. Few relish the trip, and few recreational boaters make it regularly.

And anyone considering Ensenada as a snowbird destination has a LOT of research to do prior to such a choice of lifestyle and destination. Weather is only a very minor part of that choice.

Regards,

Pete
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Old 05-24-2022, 12:27 PM   #9
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WOW! Now THERE's a broad brush! "Plenty of cruisers travel the west coast annually." Uh, maybe, if your idea of the "west coast" is the inside passage. Not so much the coasts of WA, OR, and northern CA.

And agree-well found vessels can and do make that transit. Few relish the trip, and few recreational boaters make it regularly.

And anyone considering Ensenada as a snowbird destination has a LOT of research to do prior to such a choice of lifestyle and destination. Weather is only a very minor part of that choice.

Regards,

Pete
It's been 15+ years, but I've been up/down (mostly up) the coast several dozen times. I agree - with exception of Baja Ha Ha cruisers, not many recreational vessels 'commute' this coast. The weather is workable, but distances are long. The stopovers are okay, but fishing villages and such can be pretty rustic.

Curious why single-out Ensenada for research for lifestyle? I would think due diligence is applicable to anywhere. I was in San Diego this past weekend and had a nice time riding the trolley into the city, including a pilgrimage to a Stone Brewery garden downtown which was fun. But we also saw a ton of traffic, a few whackos on the trolley, homelessness, and of course stuff was pretty expensive.

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Old 05-24-2022, 12:32 PM   #10
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Yes Mexico is being considered as well. I just called Harbor West in SD and they have this ridiculous rule of no more than 3 days in a consecutive 7 you can be at the boat. Most marinas I see have 14 days over 30. I asked if they prorate the fee since we can only be in the boat 3 days a week max. She didnít see my humor.

But venturing into MX is planned. I picked SD in my post just as a reference.
The two marinas in Ensenada have no liveaboard rules.

I am at Marina Hotel Coral right now (but not in my boat) and it is a gorgeous setting. About $700 USD a month to live at a 4 star resort.
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Old 05-24-2022, 12:34 PM   #11
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Surprised nobody has mentioned San Francisco Bay and the Sacramento Delta.
Much to explore even before going up into the Delta. Many boaters never leave it.

Oops, just re-read Peter's post #7.
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Old 05-24-2022, 12:51 PM   #12
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Surprised nobody has mentioned San Francisco Bay and the Sacramento Delta.
Much to explore even before going up into the Delta. Many boaters never leave it.
I mentioned it in post #7. Totally agree. I loved cruising the Delta. SF Bay was good too. Even in the winter it's decent. Storms roll in but there's plenty of acceptable weather.

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Old 05-24-2022, 03:44 PM   #13
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Wifey B: For all those who say nothing to see or no good cruising areas, open your eyes and your minds. May not be to some tastes, but so much. The area from Neah Bay to San Francisco has some nice small communities along the way, to me very much worth a visit once a year. San Francisco and all the area there, you could spend a lifetime exploring. On down the coast, I know big cities aren't appealing to some, but Los Angeles is special from Hollywood to Disneyland and Rodeo Drive. Maybe you don't want to live there, but stop at Marine Del Rey and then enjoy the sights and bright lights of the city. We loved San Diego as well. Now, on down to Mexico, Ensenada and beyond to Cabo San Lucas and La Paz or further just adds to the opportunity.

I'd suggest making trip #1 south. See how you liked the trip and where you end up. Then decide whether to stay or head back. Evaluate going further. Evaluate not as far. But don't decide today or based on others' opinions. Decide based on what you experience. You may get stuck forever in the Delta or you may find La Paz is your paradise. You may enjoy the annual junket. I don't know, but my primary advice is not to prejudge.
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Old 05-24-2022, 04:14 PM   #14
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...Curious why single-out Ensenada for research for lifestyle? I would think due diligence is applicable to anywhere. I was in San Diego this past weekend and had a nice time riding the trolley into the city, including a pilgrimage to a Stone Brewery garden downtown which was fun. But we also saw a ton of traffic, a few whackos on the trolley, homelessness, and of course stuff was pretty expensive.

Peter
OK Peter. Please substitute "anywhere" for "Ensenada" in Post #8. I guess I assumed that would go without saying.

Dummy me, I thought this thread had to do with an east-coast centric notion of snowbirding vs a west-coast version of same. All of a sudden it's morphed into multiple Chamber of Commerce endorsements of places to cruise and/or live! Very interesting.

And, for what it's worth, I wholeheartedly agree with you that living on a boat for an extended time in Ensenada is significantly different that doing so in San Diego. And very much not to everyone's taste. And I would also suggest that living on a boat in San Diego is also not to everyone's taste, for the reasons you suggest, and oh, so many, many more. And VERY SIGNIFICANTLY different than mooring one's boat in Ensenada, while living elsewhere.

Fortunately, most of those that contribute to this forum are blessed with the ability to live where they wish, and how they live. But while I feel anecdotes of living are valuable, I regard opinions of same to be virtually worthless. Mine most of all.

Regards,

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Old 05-24-2022, 04:57 PM   #15
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Wifey B: For all those who say nothing to see or no good cruising areas, open your eyes and your minds. May not be to some tastes, but so much. The area from Neah Bay to San Francisco has some nice small communities along the way, to me very much worth a visit once a year. D
Well, WifeyB, as I've yet to pull my butt down from around my neck after my last trip north, I'm hard-pressed to "open my eyes and my mind".

"...May not be to some tastes..." may be the understatement of the year. Personally, I found sharing a public dock with crab fisherman in Coos Bay that delighted in dumping their crab guts on the dock so the seagulls could clean up was not my kettle of fish. And while I enjoy seabirds as much as many, I'm NOT so enamored of their guano on the breakwater or on the docks at Pillar Point. Bodega Bay Marina is a LONG hike to a restaurant, transient moorage at Fort Bragg leaves you on the wrong side of the river from ANY civilization, the sealions in Monterey just LOVE motor vessels with swim steps, etc. etc. etc.

And I say again-northbound around Cape Mendocino makes Point Conception seem like child's play.

Visit once a year? Seriously? I can state that being forced into Fort Bragg at twilight, in a high wind with heavy breaking surf in a modest powerboat makes for a "sporty" entrance, particularly downwind onto a really dicey lee shore. Sporty enough to never want to visit by boat again, much less annually.

"...Don't prejudge." Uh, how 'bout do your due diligence? To the Original Poster's credit, I believe he's doing just that. But I believe singing multiple versus of Kumbaya in response is somewhat disingenuous.

Regards,

Pete
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Old 05-24-2022, 05:16 PM   #16
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"...Don't prejudge." Uh, how 'bout do your due diligence? To the Original Poster's credit, I believe he's doing just that. But I believe singing multiple versus of Kumbaya in response is somewhat disingenuous.

Regards,

Pete
Wifey B: I liked your post up until that last sentence. Nothing at all disingenuous about my post or Kumbaya. It's my experience and feeling. Yours is just as valid and I wouldn't label yours disingenuous either.

As to the differences in our experiences, sea conditions is likely the primary one. I'd encourage anyone making the trip to follow conditions diligently and to only travel in good weather windows. You clearly hit some bad conditions that we completely avoided. We didn't allow ourselves to be forced into Fort Bragg at twilight, in a high wind with heavy breaking surf nor did we round Cape Mendocino in bad conditions. We had very pleasant seas and when that was in doubt, we waited. There are others who have experienced it like you but also those who have found good windows and made a pleasant trip.
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Old 05-24-2022, 05:24 PM   #17
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Be at the boat or overnight on the boat?
Rules apply to overnight.
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Old 05-24-2022, 05:33 PM   #18
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Regarding anchoring in San Diego Bay I do not believe there is any legal long term anchoring. There are paid moorings but generally a wait list and fairly exposed to wakes and rolling.

Getting a slip is challenging and likely they all will enforce gross violation of the policy. No one is likely to initially count the days but they will notice if you are there too much and THEN will start counting.

I have had boats in SF Bay, the Sacramento Delta, Monterey and now San Diego. I have made transits several times and will do so again. I have trailered a smaller boat to seattle and cruised the San Juans. All are great places but I would not consider a regular migration between SoCal and PNW just due to distances and long transits on what can be hazzardous seas.that is just me but not too many boats make that a regular voyage.

My plan is to get back to SF area and base the boat in the delta for perhaps a year. Fresh calm water and affordable/available marinas in the delta. Easy enough to make excursions to SF Bay and Monterey. Then pick a good window and transit to Seattle and explore PNW/Alaska for a year or two before returning south or selling the boat there. We have family in PNW so another reason to spend time in the area.

FYI i am berthed at Harbor Island west so feel free to PM me if I can share any local knowledge.
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Old 05-24-2022, 05:35 PM   #19
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We brought our boat down from Alaska to Mexico last fall with the intention of returning to Alaska this summer. The weather was good enough that we didn't stop anywhere between Friday Harbor and San Francisco. We spent a month in the Bay Area, and another three or four weeks between the Bay Area and Ensenada. We could have spent much longer!

Mexico exceeded our expectations. The trip back to Alaska looked longer than the trip down, since prevailing weather is against you. So we decided to stay another season in Mexico and skip a season in the PNW. I don't know if our choice would have been the same if we needed to stay on the boat in Mexico all summer...apparently it gets hot!

I love being underway, but I think the annual migration between Alaska and Mexico is too much, certainly for myself and probably for most cruisers. San Diego to Seattle cuts off ~1500 miles, but misses most of our favorite places.

I've been thinking that something smaller and easily trucked could be a good option for those wishing to cruise both the PNW and Sea of Cortes...cruise it south with the weather, and ship it from Puerto Penasco to Olympia in May or June.
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Old 05-24-2022, 05:40 PM   #20
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The east coast paradigm of "snowbirding" is simply not common practice between SoCal (including Ensenada) and the PNW. Multiple reasons:

The trip has VERY limited "cruising" destinations between SoCal and the PNW. Sure, plenty of harbors of refuge, fuel, transient moorage, etc. but little of interest along the way. Spending quality time in locations such as Coos Bay are not on my bucket list. Bodega Bay, Grays Harbor, Pillar Point, etc.-ditto.

The weather and sea conditions for the majority of the year are challenging, to say the least. This is open water cruising, and far, far from the concept of motoring the Intercoastal Waterway on an annual basis. I don't know what your "Coho ho" alludes to, but if you've ever attempted to round Point Mendocino northbound, you'd better have your big-boy pants on. Not for the faint of heart, or novice boater.

Moorage, particularly for long-term liveaboarding, is limited at either end of the SoCal-PNW string. Particularly the southern end. And, once moorage is found at either end, giving it up to snowbird with the expectation of re-acquiring the same moorage next year, or in two years, or... is naive. Sure, Ensenada is a potential destination. You may find long-term moorage there, for less cost than in-CONUS. But then, you'd be in Mexico.

So, in direct answer to your query, yup, trying to find someone that does this trek annually is difficult, as few do so, for many, many good reasons. An occasional delivery between these two ends of the CONUS is certainly do-able. But having stayed put in SoCal for decades, and now in the PNW for more decades, with multiple trips between-I'll stay put. Little to recommend for the commute.

Regards,

Pete

As a long-time west coast guy, I think this post sums it up pretty well.

Annually going up and down the coast can be done, but its a long trip with minimal payoff along the way. The fuel cost alone can be substantial, and the time required can be long if you don't get lucky on the weather.

Southbound can be a decent ride if you stay on top of the weather. Northbound is almost always unpleasant and can be a 1000-mile butt-kicking much of the year. Boat slips in socal are never easy to find and can be pretty pricey. The shortage has been worse the last couple of years but most marinas have had waiting lists for the past 20 years. Give up your slip and you may have a long wait to get another.

These are most of the reasons that annual migration is not very common on the west coast. We've tried it and now we do that 1000 miles by air.
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