SeaPipers - Why?

[Boatingbill]

I like it. We have been planning on taking our boat from Ohio to Florida for annual winter cruising. As we get closer to making the move we are now considering a second boat for our summers here in Ohio. With this boat I could haul it back, and forth. It really doesn’t do what we want for Florida, and beyond. However it’s more boat than the second boat we would most likely buy for up here. Fun to consider, but unlikely a move we will make. BTW I already have the truck for the job, so for me that isn’t an issue.

 

[hgd]

Well felt SP design faults but little mention of reality

I own a Seapiper 35 which prompted me to open a thread a while back to clarify misconceptions of the SP at that time. I think it is time for me to interject once again. The discussion seems to focus on the center cockpit. If I knew how it create pictures in this site, I would show you how I handled the problem. Mind you leaving the pilot house in 25-30 knot winds with resulting sea spray, to pee or whatever, is nuts. I must resort to my blog http://mvkiwi.com and ask you to look at the section dealing with the Bimini/Dodger I had built over the center cockpit. This design turned out very dry and effectively creating a large comfortable living space. In the cool periods when there is sun, it acts as a green house heating the boat, and in the summer various panels can be opened to regulate the breeze and temperature. Seapiper will soon be offering this concept as an option.

Trailering is another issue, while I did not buy the boat to be trailered, it's a nice feature. I too would like to see it to be 10 ft beam but there is a lot of arguments against that, so very convincing that totally upsets the concept of the boat. I'll let Ritzo Montinga, the designer, handle that one. All I can tell you is that it is a sea kindly hull being the reason its precursor the Sea Bright skiff was the favored boat of the rum runners off the Jersey coast, per John Gerr. Additionally it only cost me $4500 to truck it from LA to Naples, Fl., which I thought was pretty good. Plus since it is sea container size it was economical to ship it from China to the USA.

 

[DDW]

The hard dodger you've constructed would solve some, but not all of the problems for me. I'd still want a full length house. That would eliminate opening the forward facing door into a rainy gale, and also eliminate the hatch and door scuttle going into the forward cabin. Also make the interior arrangement much more flexible.

I'm holding out for a different deck tool.....

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

I own a Seapiper 35 which prompted me to open a thread a while back to clarify misconceptions of the SP at that time. I think it is time for me to interject once again. The discussion seems to focus on the center cockpit. If I knew how it create pictures in this site, I would show you how I handled the problem. Mind you leaving the pilot house in 25-30 knot winds with resulting sea spray, to pee or whatever, is nuts. I must resort to my blog http://mvkiwi.com and ask you to look at the section dealing with the Bimini/Dodger I had built over the center cockpit. This design turned out very dry and effectively creating a large comfortable living space. In the cool periods when there is sun, it acts as a green house heating the boat, and in the summer various panels can be opened to regulate the breeze and temperature. Seapiper will soon be offering this concept as an option.

Trailering is another issue, while I did not buy the boat to be trailered, it's a nice feature. I too would like to see it to be 10 ft beam but there is a lot of arguments against that, so very convincing that totally upsets the concept of the boat. I'll let Ritzo Montinga, the designer, handle that one. All I can tell you is that it is a sea kindly hull being the reason its precursor the Sea Bright skiff was the favored boat of the rum runners off the Jersey coast, per John Gerr. Additionally it only cost me $4500 to truck it from LA to Naples, Fl., which I thought was pretty good. Plus since it is sea container size it was economical to ship it from China to the USA.

I have liked the Seapiper concept since it was first advertised. You certainly seem to have yours dialed in.

I was under the impression that these were going to be built on the west coast,are they partially built in China and shipped?

Best of luck with it!

 

[Gypsyjon]

Seapiper

That is one of the coolest trawlers I have seen in a LONG time. I love it!!

 

[Takoradi]

Nice boat

Fuel sipping, huge range, shallow draft, no *bling* and a box keel with protected prop so you can let it dry when and where you want. Affordable as well.

Some people love to spend time aboard in sumptuous luxury...other people might see their boat as a means to get somewhere, then get off the boat to do stuff in otherwise inaccessible coastal areas...a base camp to further adventure.

Oh, and trailerable, which is a huge plus for expanding your cruising range!

I’m with you and Nomad Willy. Looks like a great long legged 35. The midship cockpit is low and centered likely making it the most stable place on the boat. I like this thing.

Tak

 

[Carl Martin]

I'm a fan!

 

[hgd]

West didn't work out

I have liked the Seapiper concept since it was first advertised. You certainly seem to have yours dialed in.

I was under the impression that these were going to be built on the west coast,are they partially built in China and shipped?

Best of luck with it!

Yes, west coast was the plan but the costs could not meet their objective. It is now totally made in China with a lot of North American and European parts.

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

Yes, west coast was the plan but the costs could not meet their objective. It is now totally made in China with a lot of North American and European parts.

As long as they maintain quality control ,good for them. That design is a breath of fresh air in the marketplace..

 

[hughespat57]

we currently pull a 30' boat with a trailered weight of about 12,000#'s with a 2500 diesel - not really such a project.
Way back we used to move a 38' boat with a trailered weight over 20,000#'s a few times each year (shorter move , known route) which I feel is a completely different 'project' not really suitable for most folks.

Ditto here
30 ft Sundancer 2500 Dodge Ram 21,000 CGVW
Really no advantage to a 3500 dually when you dont have a fifth wheel
My is actually rated slightly higher than a 3500 for towing at the bumper

The boat reminds me of my old CG 44 MLB and the older 36 Motor Life Boats
I can see why the claim unsinkable, but that has a lot to do with water tight compartmentalization.

And as a diver it looks nice for short trips

 

[Trimjb]

SeaPiper is assembled at SeaPiper's own plant in China. The hull and topside structure is fabricated in a separate plant and trucked to the assembly plant. Components are imported from the US (SeaPiper) from American and European suppliers - Beta Marine, Vitus, Blue Seas, Raymarine, SeaKeeper to list a few. All quality components in most eyes.
These vessels are built by Craftsman not Chinese sweat shop employees.
I have one on order and receive photo progress updates about every two weeks from designer Ritzo.
It's exciting to actually see your own boat being built.
As far as the v-berth - It is actually bigger then appears. I was able to see one up close and personnel when one was delivered to Southern California. I am 6'2' and have no problem with length or overhead height. One of the few boats the wife and I looked at in this size range that I could stand straight up in the forward compartment.
We will hopefully be taking delivery in the next few months and like Herman (KiWi) will also have a mid cockpit enclosure.
FYI - there was a SeaPiper that was just sent to PNW and Southern California.
Ours will be homeported in San Diego.
I can't say enough about designer Ritzo. His customer relations and attention to detail are superior. Design changes are made along the way by input from customer base as well as his designers eye for improvements.
Not a sales pitch. Just excited about having a new boat built at what we feel is very reasonable price.

 

[bjp447]

I kinda like it. I have mixed feelings about the layout but I think you could make it work. The center area would need some sort of bimini, it is more like I would be getting something that I could make my own. On the other end there are two things standing in my way 1. I don;t have $200k to play with and 2. from reading their info they are only on hull #3 so there is a long way to go before they are readily available.

 

[rsn48]

Whenever I run a thread like this one, it really is to learn about the raison d'etre for the boat's design. If I owned one, I do a solid bimini. Think of all the room for solar panels.

 

[OldDan1943]

HDG,
You sure have 'put a lot of perfume on the pig'. I mean that in a humorous manner. You have successfully made the boat YOURS.
For those who wish to "improve" your center cockpit..... it can be done with structure and fiber glass. SMILE
(A side note, I wonder why someone has not designed a boat with the helm all the way forward like the old ore carriers.)
HDG, perhaps you can start up a business that modifies standard boat to your design. Ah but then, you would have little time to use your boat. 'Nebber mind.'
The one problem yet to be over come on your boat and my AT34 is storage, especially the hanging closet. You and I can live out of drawer but, if you have a lady onboard, she will need at least 3 drawers and a minimum of a 3 ft wide hanging closet.
Per the head. Make the wheel house 2ft longer, steal a few inches from the interior of the wheel house and stuff some sort of urinal in that closet. Perhaps a cartridge crapper as used on the canal boats in Europe?
HDG, every modification you have made, make sense. I applaud your efforts.

One question, is the canopy over your center cockpit canvas or fiber glass?

Again, I applaud your efforts and modifications. You have created, in my feeble mind, a fantastic "man's boat". Of course, a partner lady may feel otherwise. TEASE

 

[TomandMary]

Interesting design, impractical for live aboard, maybe fine for short trips. Layout does point to fancy working boat! Too much wasted space.

 

[Fish53]

I also find it interesting however with a loaded weight of 10 tons a beam to length ratio of about 4 to 1 and a draft of 3 feet it's overpowered. my personal preference would be for more depth by softening the chine and increasing the buttock angle to give it a draft of 4 feet. This would add interior volume and allow for a larger propeller and increased gearbox reduction, this would make it both more efficient and a better seaboat. To me the deck and cabin layout work fine, I like having some deck space. These observations are of course just my opinions based on how and where I would use a boat, other opinions may vary.

 

[DDW]

To maintain the capability to trailer, you can't increase the draft much at all. On the trailer, it is currently about as high as it can be. Also, increasing draft and hull volume necessarily means increasing the displacement. Again that will make trailering problematic, it is already near the limit. There are a lot of compromises in the design for trailerability, but that, and its hull form, are really the unique things on the design. There are plenty of boats that are deeper and wider if that's what you want.

 

[MurrayM]

To maintain the capability to trailer, you can't increase the draft much at all. On the trailer, it is currently about as high as it can be. Also, increasing draft and hull volume necessarily means increasing the displacement. Again that will make trailering problematic, it is already near the limit. There are a lot of compromises in the design for trailerability, but that, and its hull form, are really the unique things on the design. There are plenty of boats that are deeper and wider if that's what you want.

Good point.

Imagine if you will...an overnight storm is moving in. The 'deeper and wider' boats in the anchorage are jockeying for position hoping the boats upwind have an adequate anchor and rode.

The SeaPiper on the other hand, skims over the shallows at high tide, settles onto the beach when the tide drops, and watches the show whilst sitting beside a campfire, beside their boat.

 

[Fish53]

To maintain the capability to trailer, you can't increase the draft much at all. On the trailer, it is currently about as high as it can be. Also, increasing draft and hull volume necessarily means increasing the displacement. Again that will make trailering problematic, it is already near the limit. There are a lot of compromises in the design for trailerability, but that, and its hull form, are really the unique things on the design. There are plenty of boats that are deeper and wider if that's what you want.

Actually I said it would increase interior volume however neither that nor an increase in draft need increase displacement which as we all know is a function of weight. Regardless I'm sort of wondering about the wisdom of a 35', 20,000lb boat compromised by a need to be trailered. Otherwise as I said I kind of like it.

 

[rslifkin]

Thinking about it, the trailering ability makes sense for the workboat feel. If you were using it as an actual workboat (for whatever purpose) with overnight accommodation, it seems practical that you could trailer it to the area of the job, launch it, then trailer it to the next job when done. Makes it easy to get the boat and a truck there for work and if you have other reasons to own the truck, it's probably more cost effective (and faster) than moving it long distances by water.

 

[Fish53]

Good point.

Imagine if you will...an overnight storm is moving in. The 'deeper and wider' boats in the anchorage are jockeying for position hoping the boats upwind have an adequate anchor and rode.

The SeaPiper on the other hand, skims over the shallows at high tide, settles onto the beach when the tide drops, and watches the show whilst sitting beside a campfire, beside their boat.

Imagine if you will... an overnight storm is moving in and you're just too far from shelter to escape it and you're forced to watch more seaworthy vessels weather the blow while you contemplate your chances for survival.

 

[psneeld]

Lots of skinny water boats aren't necessarily sea boats and certainly vice versa. Therefore designed for their main mission.


Both have their place as some people who have had plenty of going out in the ocean and are tired of fighting waves, searching for the channel and want to explore areas where others dare not go.... yet doing it in some form of comfort.



While I have my miles in canoes and kayaks...at some point waking up in the morning can take on a new meaning with certain comforts.

 

[Fish53]

Thinking about it, the trailering ability makes sense for the workboat feel. If you were using it as an actual workboat (for whatever purpose) with overnight accommodation, it seems practical that you could trailer it to the area of the job, launch it, then trailer it to the next job when done. Makes it easy to get the boat and a truck there for work and if you have other reasons to own the truck, it's probably more cost effective (and faster) than moving it long distances by water.

As with previous comments it's possible to imagine all kinds of scenarios where this or that design works well. I suppose the question is more how large a market is there for a particular configuration. I could see the Seapiper functioning in several inshore roles as a workboat but the trailering thing seems dubious to me.

 

[Trimjb]

I kinda like it. I have mixed feelings about the layout but I think you could make it work. The center area would need some sort of bimini, it is more like I would be getting something that I could make my own. On the other end there are two things standing in my way 1. I don;t have $200k to play with and 2. from reading their info they are only on hull #3 so there is a long way to go before they are readily available.

6 and 7 were recently delivered to new owners. 8 and 9 shortly. 10 and 11 have started production, 12 and 13 lined up.
Production has ramped up with new retooling. As everything COVID has also hampered production and supply vendors.

 

[MurrayM]

Imagine if you will... an overnight storm is moving in and you're just too far from shelter to escape it and you're forced to watch more seaworthy vessels weather the blow while you contemplate your chances for survival.

Imagine if you will...being in a smaller boat and having a more sensitive ‘weather eye’ and find it necessary to plan ahead further than larger boats in order to avoid getting into that position in the first place.

Sea kayaking taught us a lot about that. Better to go hiking or exploring ashore for a couple days and wait until conditions are safe if a long crossing is coming up next.

 

[psneeld]

No boat is perfect as builders look for the market that will make them the money they want and design/build accordingly.



Plenty of builders started off in a niche and did well enough to think they could grow into bigger/smaller and/or different boats (that were already being built) and promptly started a major decline or went out of business because of breaking into a market that was already overloaded and had customer allegiance.


Some make the transition...but many haven't....especially when times change because of economics or customer wants.

 

[Fish53]

Imagine if you will...being in a smaller boat and having a more sensitive ‘weather eye’ and find it necessary to plan ahead further than larger boats in order to avoid getting into that position in the first place.

Sea kayaking taught us a lot about that. Better to go hiking or exploring ashore for a couple days and wait until conditions are safe if a long crossing is coming up next.

I didn't realize we were talking about smaller boats much less kayaks, but then we were talking about running a 35' boat aground to escape weather so I guess anything is fair game.

 

[Nomad Willy]

I also find it interesting however with a loaded weight of 10 tons a beam to length ratio of about 4 to 1 and a draft of 3 feet it's overpowered. my personal preference would be for more depth by softening the chine and increasing the buttock angle to give it a draft of 4 feet. This would add interior volume and allow for a larger propeller and increased gearbox reduction, this would make it both more efficient and a better seaboat. To me the deck and cabin layout work fine, I like having some deck space. These observations are of course just my opinions based on how and where I would use a boat, other opinions may vary.

Fish,
There’s almost no boats here mentioned on TF that aren’t overpowered.
And nobody here will talk about the buttock angle. Why ???
Using a larger propeller to the extent you’re talking will make the boat like a truck stuck in low gear. The resulting boat will be more efficient yes but only at one speed. Go up a half a knot (or down) and you’ll get very much less efficient. I run my Willard at 6 knots. Another owner may run at 6.5 knots, or 5.75 knots. For the general market more “propeller range” is almost always more appropriate. And many here think FD boats run at hull speed. Deeper hull? A deeper hull = too much rolling for this crowd.

Most trawlers are SD boats because trawler skippers are interested in all the speed they can get. Going slower than hull speed is totally unacceptable to 95% of them. You make a true FD boat out of the SP and your market share will go from 3% to 1% or less. Probably less.





I won’t speak of the cabin layout (like you) because it’s 95% opinion.

 

[Fish53]

I agree with most of what you said particularly the way most use their boats and the marketing thereof. I would respectfully direct your attention to the last sentence of my cited comment. I and I suspect you deviate somewhat from the norm where boats are concerned, we are after all owners of full displacement craft which appear to be in a minority.

 

[MurrayM]

I didn't realize we were talking about smaller boats much less kayaks, but then we were talking about running a 35' boat aground to escape weather so I guess anything is fair game.

We're getting our scenarios out of kilter

You suggested a SeaPiper would be in danger if, "...an overnight storm is moving in and you're just too far from shelter to escape it and you're forced to watch more seaworthy vessels weather the blow while you contemplate your chances for survival"...which made me think you were talking about vessels large enough to stay at sea to weather a storm.

Something I wouldn't want to do in any small boat!