rule of thumb for boat slip size

[Art]

Interesting item... regarding slip and boat sizes.

We're just about ready to "pull the plug" and [maybe???] get our Tolly ready for sale next spring. To do so; we'll bring her to 12 miles close rather than 100 miles away from home.

So... I visited a marina I've kept boats at before. Same great yacht harbor commander. Slip 14 is available. Our 36' OAL 34' Tolly has 12'6"' beam and the slip is 40' L x 13 W. Our boat has about 11' waterline width so she'll fit right in with two fenders hanging each side. Photo shows our boat in different slip at same marina in 2008.

Now the interesting item: Phone rang and although there were other sips available the caller was refused due to no slip wide enough to handle a 22' wide catamaran. And, all end docks are currently filled. Which makes me wonder what will happen if too many cats get sold and there's no place for them to dock?

 

[OldDan1943]

I know of one man, brought a new sail cat. He bought 2 slips, remove the concrete dock and pilings between the two. Docked his boat only to discover, his wife does not like the boat.
Oh well. So much for Plan A. CHUCKLE

 

[psneeld]

I think this is a great idea! You’re suggesting that he splice in spring/breast lines into a drunk line, right? For long term moorage, piling placement becomes a nonissue. Fantastic.

Old school stuff......

 

[backinblue]

My home slip has a center floating dock the length of the pier but each slip is comprised of fixed pilings. Some have a small finger attatached to the floating dock, some do not. Lines are handled by weights and pulleys. Works very well once set up. You cast off the lines when leaving and they are held up in the air a few feet above high tide. Easy to grab them by hand or a boat hook when returning. This was new to me, but I assume a common setup for this type of dock.

 

[psneeld]

I have seen weights and pulleys used on smaller, lighter vessel that are usually pulled out of the water for big storms.


I have never seen them for larger, heavier boats though. I do not and don't know anyone else that would trust that kind of set up.

Would be interested in the kinds of pulleys and weights used and how they attach them to the pilings. I know what I would use if I was going to....but interested in what others think is OK.

I grew up with lots of boats rigged this way in Shark River, NJ which had lots of current, 4 or more tidal range and a good amount of spring/fall northeastern and summer thunderstorms. But, the pulleys rigs were used only on the smaller boats and they did work pretty well.

More old school stuff.

 

[backinblue]

I have seen weights and pulleys used on smaller, lighter vessel that are usually pulled out of the water for big storms.


I have never seen them for larger, heavier boats though. I do not and don't know anyone else that would trust that kind of set up.

Would be interested in the kinds of pulleys and weights used and how they attach them to the pilings. I know what I would use if I was going to....but interested in what others think is OK.

I grew up with lots of boats rigged this way in Shark River, NJ which had lots of current, 4 or more tidal range and a good amount of spring/fall northeastern and summer thunderstorms. But, the pulleys rigs were used only on the smaller boats and they did work pretty well.

More old school stuff.

I can take some pics when I am home but out on the water for the weekend. To be clear, the weights and pulleys have nothing to do with holding the boat. They only hold the lines out of the water when not attached to your boat. Common at my club is to use long round weights that used to be used in older homes to hold windows open. Easy to attach a line to and weigh 5-10 lbs. They only need to weigh enough to lift your lines out of the water. Once the lines are attached to your boat, they serve no purpose.

 

[psneeld]

Sorry, misread your post.

I have seen that trick too.... not sure why it's not more popular.

 

[IntoTheBlue]

As I get older I seek the easier and less stressful way in my boating ventures. That being the case, taking into consideration all of the posts (which are great) I like what Firehoser75 had to say.

I'm in a slip now which is tight, with a finger pier of port side and pole on starboard. Backing in I cannot see the finger pier and found that I have to bring the starboard in to about less than 6 inches to the pole to fit. Doable, yes. However difficult at certain points of tide when currents are strong. Add wind at the same time this is really difficult. This adds unneeded stress to everyday boating as we'll plan returns based on tides and wind conditions. It would be nice to have just another 6 inches.

So I would suggest taking the everyday factors of coming home and backing in, picking the easiest and less stressful in all conditions as your slip of choice.

Enjoy!

 

[backinblue]

I would miss out on a lot of boating if I had to pick the ideal times to leave and return.

 

[rgano]

My home slip has a center floating dock the length of the pier but each slip is comprised of fixed pilings. Some have a small finger attatached to the floating dock, some do not. Lines are handled by weights and pulleys. Works very well once set up. You cast off the lines when leaving and they are held up in the air a few feet above high tide. Easy to grab them by hand or a boat hook when returning. This was new to me, but I assume a common setup for this type of dock.

Are the pulleys which raise the unattached lines clear of the water under any strain when the dock is in the slip and secured? Thinking about storm loading and such.

 

[bowball]

What about with boat sheds?

With a wider shed which has 30” decks on both sides, giving the boat an excess of 6’ of slip width over its beam, does that seem too much? That seems like a lot of water on one side when attaching lines.

 

[psneeld]

Extendable boat hooks work on wide slips.

Have loaned mine out many a time watching boaters struggle.

 

[OldDan1943]

I was always told, nothing extending beyond the outer most pilings.

 

[rslifkin]

What about with boat sheds?

With a wider shed which has 30” decks on both sides, giving the boat an excess of 6’ of slip width over its beam, does that seem too much? That seems like a lot of water on one side when attaching lines.

I see no issue with that. Tie to one side, then add the lines to the other at the end of the process.

 

[Art]

I see no issue with that. Tie to one side, then add the lines to the other at the end of the process.

That's pretty much what we do.

Our Tolly has two 10" cleats each side, about 8' total separation [4' each] from boat's center point midship. We stay close to starboard finger dock [where our boarding stairs are placed]. First we tie next to that dock using those two "spring" cleats. Then we toss lines fore and aft to finger dock on port side. As well we get fore and aft lines fastened on starboard. This gives out boat six points of line tie.

When leaving we off tie all fore and aft lines first. Then depending on tidal current and wind [while I'm at helm on bridge] Linda lets loose first one then the other starboard spring line. She hops on board off the steps and off we go into the channel.

I do use an adjustable boat hook over side of the bridge for needs that may become apparent while either docking or exiting. Linda has a non adjustable boat hook at her avail.

For a short stay at our dock we hook up only the two starboard spring lines. There are posts on the finger dock whose placement coincide with our spring cleats.

 

[Hippocampus]

Often bless google earth and such programs. We have been in fairly constant motion at times so often going in to new to us marinas or commercial spaces. Truly a picture is worth a thousand words. Best you can usually get get off the dock master is “stern to port side tie at number X” on the VHF. Sometimes there’s a picture of the dockage on their promo literature or a schematic. Although mildly helpful a aerial picture with fine detail on zoom beats all. Makes the discussion with your line handler or thinking inside yourself so much better.
We’ve also have no reluctance to simply wait until conditions change so docking is easier and safer. Have no problem anchoring out for hours or even a day until I’m comfortable I can dock safely. So part of the approach protocol is to
Think through bail out plan if docking is too difficult.
And see if there’s any decent place to anchor nearby.
Over the years have seen some very expensive bumps occur. Usually when the weather is up, current too strong, it’s dark or visibility poor and people are rushed so feel they must dock NOW.
We had a slip in Barrington R.I. as a home slip. It was tight with two boats between each finger. Once it was over a 25kts crosswind could fortunately anchor nearby. If one absolutely needed to get in for a appointment or work would run the dinghy in leaving the other person on the boat. Have also run the dinghy in before entering some of the very large marinas you see with lots of 90 degree turns. Worse is when slip numbers are poorly marked or not marked at all.
Think the biggest problem is not having a discussed plan beforehand. And a fallback. And a bailout plan. Find crossing oceans peaceful. Find weather demanding but a good challenge. But even after years of boating find docking a tight sphincter event. Most stressful thing for me. Others are so much better at it and it’s joy to watch good boat handling. But for me any docking where I don’t hit anything is a success.

 

[rslifkin]

Often bless google earth and such programs. We have been in fairly constant motion at times so often going in to new to us marinas or commercial spaces. Truly a picture is worth a thousand words. Best you can usually get get off the dock master is “stern to port side tie at number X” on the VHF. Sometimes there’s a picture of the dockage on their promo literature or a schematic. Although mildly helpful a aerial picture with fine detail on zoom beats all. Makes the discussion with your line handler or thinking inside yourself so much better.

I've also used the measuring tool with the satellite view to get a sense for how tight a fairway is for maneuvering and such.

 

[backinblue]

Are the pulleys which raise the unattached lines clear of the water under any strain when the dock is in the slip and secured? Thinking about storm loading and such.

The pulleys are near the top of the pilings so if they are under water I have bigger problems. Keep in mind that the pulleys and lines that run through them are small in comparision to the dock lines, so they would break before there was ever any strain between them and the boat, not that there should be. I'll take some pics soon. System works great, makes it easy for wife to grab lines when I'm backing in, and keeps lines out of the water when gone.

 

[High Wire]

For a liveaboard the slip furthest out will catch the slight breezes ,have the best view, and have the least foot traffic.

At the NJ shore at the least those slips will also have the most seagull poop and clams dropped by herring gulls!

 

[Circumnavigator]

I'll second the notion that the two slips mentioned are way too shallow. With only a one foot tidal range, there shouldn't be a problem, but remember that the quoted depths are at mean low water, which means that half of all tides will be lower. More important, wind and storm conditions usually raise the water level, but they can lower it. Even if you stay free of those problems, with only a foot under the boat, you will certainly be sucking mud into your intake filter as you go in and out.


Far more important than length is width and ease of entry. I've recently been in a marina where the distance between the floats was so small that there was barely a boat length (42 feet) between the sterns of the boats on opposite sides. That makes turning into the slip tricky in a cross wind or current. Also, if the slip is subject to current, you want it to be parallel to the current - docking in a cross current is hard. If the current is in a river -- usually or always from one direction -- you want the end of the slip to be up current. I'd far rather be pushed away from the danger than into it, and docking up current is easier as you can use the rudder without having to use the engine.



All I really care about cleat placement is that there is a good cleat in the middle of the slip to put my spring line on. Unlike almost all of the boats I see in marinas, we drop a loop over the cleat or bollard and adjust the line on the boat. Once the spring is on, getting crew ashore to handle the bow and stern lines is not a problem and I don't care much where the cleats are.


Jim

 

[backinblue]

I'll second the notion that the two slips mentioned are way too shallow. With only a one foot tidal range, there shouldn't be a problem, but remember that the quoted depths are at mean low water, which means that half of all tides will be lower. More important, wind and storm conditions usually raise the water level, but they can lower it. Even if you stay free of those problems, with only a foot under the boat, you will certainly be sucking mud into your intake filter as you go in and out.


Far more important than length is width and ease of entry. I've recently been in a marina where the distance between the floats was so small that there was barely a boat length (42 feet) between the sterns of the boats on opposite sides. That makes turning into the slip tricky in a cross wind or current. Also, if the slip is subject to current, you want it to be parallel to the current - docking in a cross current is hard. If the current is in a river -- usually or always from one direction -- you want the end of the slip to be up current. I'd far rather be pushed away from the danger than into it, and docking up current is easier as you can use the rudder without having to use the engine.



All I really care about cleat placement is that there is a good cleat in the middle of the slip to put my spring line on. Unlike almost all of the boats I see in marinas, we drop a loop over the cleat or bollard and adjust the line on the boat. Once the spring is on, getting crew ashore to handle the bow and stern lines is not a problem and I don't care much where the cleats are.


Jim

you make some good points and my slip covers some of them. I am in a river and my slip is parallel to the current. But it's tidal so current goes both ways.

I also have the problem the there is another pier of slips about 100 ft downriver of me. So you have to make a tight turn and the parallel current now becomes perpendicular. At times when the tide is going out, especially after decent rain, the current is significant. (I'm building my defense for my latest debacle). After 3 seasons at this yacht club with no real problems I had my first oops a couple days ago. Thanks in large part to this forum, I often practice leaving w/o using my bow or stern thrusters. I tried this a couple days ago with an outgoing tide and after several inches of rain from the passing tropical storm. Whether it was the stronger current or just my lack of skills, I realized I wasn't going to make the turn. Hit reverse to stop forward motion but got pushed sideways into the downriver pilings making up the neighboring marina. Luckily no harm to my boat or any others. Just the embarassament of screwing up. Lesson learned. Practice in calmer conditions! Use all tools available when necessary.

 

[Art]

I'll second the notion that the two slips mentioned are way too shallow. With only a one foot tidal range, there shouldn't be a problem, but remember that the quoted depths are at mean low water, which means that half of all tides will be lower.

Jim

Hi Jim - Unless you already provided and I missed em. Maybe you could post some photos of your "tender". Looks interesting! - Thanks, Art

 

[jmwatch]

Hello everyone,

After reading through this thread, it pretty much confirms for me what I was originally thinking about OP’s questions on “Rule of thumb” for slip size.

IMO, I really think the best way is to have a look at the slip itself. To much a lot of calculations to determine a slip seems to me to be over complicating the matter. Just my opinion, and theres many others with more experience than myself.

But in my area for example, there’s only a limited number of slips available, and we basically grab which one will seem to work best out of the few a available. Because if I had to attempt to find a slip matching all my calculations for best slip? I’d never get my boat in the water.. Lol.

One thing I would suggest is try to get at least a few feet deeper, than just allowing a foot of water under the boat. If you draw 3.5’, I would look for at least 7’ depth. We’re on a finger pier way out on the end. 2 boats to each slip. We have an 8’ long finger pier on starboard side, for a 34’ boat. We get winds, waves and current out at the end, and close quarters makes for a tricky docking since we have to back in for best access to shore power etc..

Probably not ideal for us but it works. I use lines aft or both sides, and a line from midship cleat to tie up.
The fact we’re out at the end, we have a more private spot, which we like. Thankfully the marina offers carts for bring supplies out to the boat, so the distance is not bad to deal with. They’ll also pump it out in location if need be.

 

[markpierce]

Boat's beam plus two feet. Wider is good.

 

[OldDan1943]

Boat's beam plus two feet. Wider is good.

I vote for 4 ft. Allows to fenders and a bit more so the boat can move better with the tide.

 

[backinblue]

Remember, there's a reason they are called "rub rails".

 

[OldDan1943]

backnblue, yes true rub rails. No chrome strip to catch on 'things'.

 

[Art]

Boat Fenders: "Cushions" that prevent a boat from being damaged by rubbing/impacting a dock!

 

[OldDan1943]

Boat Fenders: "Cushions" that prevent a boat from being damaged by rubbing/impacting a dock!

I learned the hard way to pull in all my fenders prior to leaving the dock.
I caught a fender on a piling which twisted the boat from the desired path and almost into a docked boat.

 

[markpierce]

I don't recover fenders until after leaving the marina. One never knows. Leastwise, singlehandled.