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Old 06-12-2021, 12:12 PM   #1
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rudder desperation

My 1993/94 marine trader 38 threw it's rudder.
Yep fell right out of the boat, almost sank.
Thank god for uscg,nypd, towboatus.

Number 1 issue: does anyone know the dimensional specs?
Shaft diameter?
plate dimensions?
Does it attach to the skeg (can't tell because end of skeg is damaged/gone)?
If it does attach what is total shaft length?

Number2 issue: Any ideas where to find one new/used/salvage

One last thing, can anyone tell me about North Minniford Yacht Club on City Island NY. She's on the hard there now.

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.
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Old 06-12-2021, 12:21 PM   #2
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Glad you and boat survived. Sorry I cannot help you, but it would be very instructive if one day you could elaborate on the timeline and all that was done to save the boat.
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Old 06-13-2021, 07:22 AM   #3
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It should look something like this. Sorry I don't have dimensions.
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Old 06-13-2021, 07:27 AM   #4
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Wow, I have never heard of such a thing on a trawler. Did the skeg break off?

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Old 06-13-2021, 08:16 AM   #5
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Yeah, if it had a skeg, the only way I can see that it could exit the boat is if the post broke right where it entered the hull! Even then, you should have had the stump still plugging the hole, so no water intrusion. If no skeg, and clamps were loose on the rudder quadrant, I can see it dropping clean off . . . but I've never heard of it happening. I am assuming you don't know where it dropped, or maybe it was too deep? Please keep us advised!
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Old 06-13-2021, 08:25 AM   #6
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This a 1986 38 dc(trunk cabin) is yours a trunk cabin or sun deck. My upper shaft has a recess with split ring that should of held the shaft in the boat even if the rudder fell off . The rudder weight should be on the ring not the skeg .what parts did you find in the laz should be a round plate the split collar and the split bracket for the steering cylinder
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Old 06-13-2021, 06:58 PM   #7
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Post to MT owners assoc blog.
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Old 06-13-2021, 10:11 PM   #8
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Thanks to everyone for the responses so far.
let me respond in order.

Rgano
Here's the complete rundown.
The boat is new to me. Bought in CT and heading home to Kent Narrows on the Chesapeake.
Up until the day of the accident I had a good friend with me, but he had to leave and get back to Philly.
Anyway we were entering the harbor at New Rochelle for the night and as we passed buoy 9 there was a small but kinda sharp bump. We were definitely in the channel and when I checked the depth gauge had plenty of water under the keel.
There was no change in vibrations so I presumed the prop had not sustained damage and there was not any water coming in.
Oh yeah my friend told me the locals are like "Oh yeah, there is someting near buoy 9".

So the next day I set out for my next layover in Flushing Bay and then would tackle Hell's Gate the next day.
Good time to mention that I am not a particularly experienced sailor so I was a bit nervous.
Made several course corrections and did not notice any steering issues.
Just a few hundred yards from Throgs Neck bridge am turning to starboard and she is not responding, in fact she is turning to port.
I freak slightly thinking OMG are the currents here that strong?
So I try to head back the way I came to (in my mind) get out of this current.
I then just happen to glance down at the galley and there are several inches of water gurgling up thru the bilge hatch and from under the forward cabin door.
Grabbed the mic and my USCG training kicked in. I handled radio comms on helos out of New Orleans many moons ago.
Be calm, be clear, be direct, and in what order to say things.
"Mayday,Mayday,Mayday"---the reason for repeating it is for whoever hears it is prepared to pay attention. "MV Idlewild taking on water position lat/long".

Interesting to me was quickly I was being asked for position based on landmarks. Now this is where it got a little humorous to me. I'm looking at a breakwater where in very large letters it says SUNY maritime college.
So anyway...a sailboat to starboard ahead of me turned towards me.
Thank you to those folks, and within minutes there was both USCG and NYPD and towboatUS boats heading towards me.
It was really a swarm, at least 7 vessels.
They jumped on with pumps while one of them searched for the hole. My rudder shaft is actually below the bed in the aft cabin they found it and plugged it.
Something people should be aware of is once it settles down you will get a full USCG inspection. Life Jackets, fire extinguishers, discharge and trash placards etc. I did get a violation about my Coast Guard doc.

jleonard
thanks for the pic. At least now I know what should be there.

Yes about a foot of the skeg is gone.
There is to my eye no damage to connection at the "tiller" arm.
The bolts "seem tight".

My lazerette only has a hydraulic reservoir in it. The rest of the steering gear is under the bed behind the water tank.

bgillroy
Thanks did not about them.

On to the next
Anybody familiar with buck algonquin.
Since they don't post prices what might I expect. I want to prepare for the shock.
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Old 06-13-2021, 10:33 PM   #9
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Thank you for the recap. You were so incredibly lucky all those resources were available. Once you get ready to move onward, may I suggest a high water bilge alarm to alert you to water above whatever might be considered normal in the bilge. It will allow you time to find the gusher before it disappears underwater. I have been there too, and it was while alone on a 60-footer where there was no help, truly terrifying. I vowed never to run another boat without a bilge alarm. Amazing to me how most boats do not have one. I hope your repairs move ahead quickly and we get to hear about how well your trip home went!
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Old 06-14-2021, 05:35 AM   #10
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As you were probably towed to City Island there are a few yards there that can build a rudder from scratch in a couple of days as they repair the skeg.

Ask at Consolidated.
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Old 06-14-2021, 07:45 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgano View Post
I vowed never to run another boat without a bilge alarm. Amazing to me how most boats do not have one. I hope your repairs move ahead quickly and we get to hear about how well your trip home went!
I've been known to direct wire (with an in line fuse) a float switch to a $9 car horn. Loud as %^(* and outside of any other wiring.
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Old 06-14-2021, 09:45 AM   #12
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Yep Bilge alarm on the new shopping list.
Will even ponder the homebuilt version.
BTW Oscar I was born and raised in Bethlehem.
LHS class of 70.
Also my previous boat was a '77 Hat 43 DC.
She was a beauty.
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Old 06-18-2021, 04:49 PM   #13
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Quite an experience! Glad you and the boat are safe.



Hamilton Marine in Maine carries buck Algonquin and will ship. Their prices are usually very good.



Quote:
Originally Posted by jschlen View Post
Thanks to everyone for the responses so far.
let me respond in order.

Rgano
Here's the complete rundown.
The boat is new to me. Bought in CT and heading home to Kent Narrows on the Chesapeake.
Up until the day of the accident I had a good friend with me, but he had to leave and get back to Philly.
Anyway we were entering the harbor at New Rochelle for the night and as we passed buoy 9 there was a small but kinda sharp bump. We were definitely in the channel and when I checked the depth gauge had plenty of water under the keel.
There was no change in vibrations so I presumed the prop had not sustained damage and there was not any water coming in.
Oh yeah my friend told me the locals are like "Oh yeah, there is someting near buoy 9".

So the next day I set out for my next layover in Flushing Bay and then would tackle Hell's Gate the next day.
Good time to mention that I am not a particularly experienced sailor so I was a bit nervous.
Made several course corrections and did not notice any steering issues.
Just a few hundred yards from Throgs Neck bridge am turning to starboard and she is not responding, in fact she is turning to port.
I freak slightly thinking OMG are the currents here that strong?
So I try to head back the way I came to (in my mind) get out of this current.
I then just happen to glance down at the galley and there are several inches of water gurgling up thru the bilge hatch and from under the forward cabin door.
Grabbed the mic and my USCG training kicked in. I handled radio comms on helos out of New Orleans many moons ago.
Be calm, be clear, be direct, and in what order to say things.
"Mayday,Mayday,Mayday"---the reason for repeating it is for whoever hears it is prepared to pay attention. "MV Idlewild taking on water position lat/long".

Interesting to me was quickly I was being asked for position based on landmarks. Now this is where it got a little humorous to me. I'm looking at a breakwater where in very large letters it says SUNY maritime college.
So anyway...a sailboat to starboard ahead of me turned towards me.
Thank you to those folks, and within minutes there was both USCG and NYPD and towboatUS boats heading towards me.
It was really a swarm, at least 7 vessels.
They jumped on with pumps while one of them searched for the hole. My rudder shaft is actually below the bed in the aft cabin they found it and plugged it.
Something people should be aware of is once it settles down you will get a full USCG inspection. Life Jackets, fire extinguishers, discharge and trash placards etc. I did get a violation about my Coast Guard doc.

jleonard
thanks for the pic. At least now I know what should be there.

Yes about a foot of the skeg is gone.
There is to my eye no damage to connection at the "tiller" arm.
The bolts "seem tight".

My lazerette only has a hydraulic reservoir in it. The rest of the steering gear is under the bed behind the water tank.

bgillroy
Thanks did not about them.

On to the next
Anybody familiar with buck algonquin.
Since they don't post prices what might I expect. I want to prepare for the shock.
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Old 06-20-2021, 07:50 PM   #14
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Rudder Post

First - iit was indeed fortunate to have the rescue resources nearby.

Interested in the post. We have an Island Gypsy. The prop / rudder and support system is similar to the pictures shown.
A fellow IG member had half the rudder support arm fall off. They did not hit anything, it had simply fatigued.
On our boat, the entire support section have been reinforced with a section of channel iron, pinned to the original structure.
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Old 06-21-2021, 05:41 AM   #15
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Last time I looked Buck A did bronze rudders for higher speed boats.

They will require dimensions , just as a fabricator would .

Since bronze is not required it will be much cheaper to if necessary pay someone with an identical boat to do a short haul and measure everything.

A good yard should be able to figure it out , but skills are declining everywhere.

The harder job may be repairing the skeg .

Install a zinc collar inside the boat to keep the new unit from dropping again.

And don't forget a hole in the hard over rudder to allow a shaft to be replaced , with out dropping the rudder.
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Old 06-21-2021, 09:34 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oscar View Post
I've been known to direct wire (with an in line fuse) a float switch to a $9 car horn. Loud as %^(* and outside of any other wiring.

Love the simplicity and efficacy!

Was the car horn in the engine room and still could be heard or was mounted externally?

Thanks
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Old 06-21-2021, 01:24 PM   #17
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I recently replaced both rudders on my 1979 Marine Trader. The online price for the rudders was north of $1600 each on these stock units were still going to need to be customized locally. Instead I had a local Steel Fabricator make new ones, including the customizations for $700 each.
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