Rudder almost seized

[BuoyOBuoy]

I have bought an 1979 Albin 33 in good shape for it's age.
I am making it a labor of love as it's condition makes it a good project boat.
It had been sitting on land covered in a tarp for 10 + years with a humidifier. Also been cranked over enough times to have kept the Lehman happy.
As always I have left the hard stuff to the nearly end.
If I turned either wheel steering fluid would come out. I have replaced both the O rings on the reservoirs but the rudder is nearly seized. I have unhooked the piston and as expected the wheels turn freely and so does the piston
I have used a long bar as a pry so with a lot of effort it will move from side to side.
Any suggestions on what could be the problem. Does anyone think that the packing gland (?) could have that much grip?
Any help is always appreciated.

 

[FlyWright]

Steering rams and pumps wear out over time and need to be rebuilt. Any hydraulic system left in a stored state like that will probably require rebuild, based on my single experience. I had to have both FB and lower helm Wagner pumps rebuilt and recently I discovered a steering ram that's leaking and needs the same.

That's work I hire pros for. I learned a long time ago that I can't do that fine work like pros can. Too many possibilities for my ignorant human error, IMO.

Have you tried to add fluid to see if your results vary?

 

[Arc]

The simple solution is to drop the rudder. Clean it up , clean out the gland, make sure nothing is bent. Repack and good for the next 20 years

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. BOB. Yup. Packing gland is the culprit IMO. Something is gumming up the works. Don't force it too much. Remove or loosen the retainer for the packing gland and soak the rudder shaft and packing material with penetrating oil. I've heard a good, cheap penetrant is ATF diluted with acetone. Soak the area well and GENTLY try to move the rudder back and forth. Be patient. Hopefully you will be able to free it up. When you have it freed up, take Mr. A's advice and drop the rudder and re-pack OR remove all the old packing, inspect the shaft for corrosion and re-pack, all with the rudder in place. Not as good as Mr. A's thought.
IF any of your hydraulic seals are gone they will have to be replaced. Might be a simple, straightforward job or not worth doing yourself.

 

[Robertmark]

A very timely post, I went down to my Hershine this weekend and the port rudder is very stiff. I used the boat the previous weekend and didn't notice a problem. I disconnected all the linkage and the problem Is definitely in the rudder shaft/ bushing. My question is can the rudder be dropped and bearing be replaced in the water, the packing is in a flange bolted down to a large fiberglass/wood block. Is the bearing below this in the same assembly? Anybody done this or familiar with how it's built?

 

[markpierce]

Steering rams and pumps wear out over time and need to be rebuilt. Any hydraulic system left in a stored state like that will probably require rebuild, based on my single experience. I had to have both FB and lower helm Wagner pumps rebuilt and recently I discovered a steering ram that's leaking and needs the same.

That's work I hire pros for. I learned a long time ago that I can't do that fine work like pros can. Too many possibilities for my ignorant human error, IMO.

Have you tried to add fluid to see if your results vary?

Same here. Had the pros fix steering earlier this year. My problem was that steering became extremely loose, losing fluid, making steering problematic to make a straight course.

 

[FF]

"My question is can the rudder be dropped and bearing be replaced in the water, the packing is in a flange bolted down to a large fiberglass/wood block."

In the water would scare me , especially if the bolts are SS and not bronze.

You can usually renew the packing in the water but dropping the rudder and having a bearing created and installed would take a while.

Even longer if the rudder shaft is bent .

 

[DCDC]

Stella has relatively large SS rudders with single hydraulic ram. There are also bearing/packing grease fittings with hoses to conveniently located grease cups. The 4” brass cups each hold around 4oz of grease and have a threaded plunger. A quarter turn on the handle forces enough grease in to keep the rudder action smooth.

I know that new maintenance tasks can easily balloon out of proportion but, as long as the rudders are out, you may be able to add a grease system. If accessible, drilling/tapping for a simple zerk nut would work.

 

[BuoyOBuoy]

A very timely post, I went down to my Hershine this weekend and the port rudder is very stiff. I used the boat the previous weekend and didn't notice a problem. I disconnected all the linkage and the problem Is definitely in the rudder shaft/ bushing. My question is can the rudder be dropped and bearing be replaced in the water, the packing is in a flange bolted down to a large fiberglass/wood block. Is the bearing below this in the same assembly? Anybody done this or familiar with how it's built?

Thanks for the suggestion.
My problem is like Robertmark's, except my boat is on the hard.
My rudder is unable to be turned by using the upper or lower steering wheels. If I use a pry bar I can turn it from side to side.
I am down to having dis-connecting all the linkage and filling the reservoirs.
It is a skeg hung rudder so how is it dropped?
Can anyone enlighten me on the packing gland or the bearing?
That is my next step.

 

[FF]

"Can anyone enlighten me on the packing gland or the bearing?"

Loosen the packing system and remove all the packing .

With the cylinder disconnected the rudder should move with finger pressure.

If you have dual rudders check the rod? fittings to be sure none are seized.

Repack with Duramax or GFO .If you solved the problem.

 

[C lectric]

If it's out of the water then a few photos of the rudder and skeg showing the rudder shaft where it attaches to the skeg may help. There is usually a bolt on bearing of sorts which when removed allow the rudders to be removed. You may not have to go that far though if you do the following.

I will 2nd FF comments about disconnect the rod between the two rudder
and strip out the packing material.


And by the way some shots of the packing/stuffing boxes.

GOOD CLEAR FOCUSED PHOTOS.

 

[BuoyOBuoy]

I am almost certain it is a bushing or bearing of some type.
I have stripped everything down to where the bushing is located and that is where I'm stumped.
I cannot get the bushing (collar) to release. I can hammer it from side to side (with a lot of difficulty) but it will not let go.
I have been soaking it with PT Blaster but to no avail.
I'm giving up on the idea of doing it myself.
Under what category do I find a hydraulic steering mechanic to take on the job of removing it, then replacing it with a new one.
And where do I find the new part?
I am in Ft. Pierce Fl and it is an 1979 Albin 33.

 

[C lectric]

Some photos may get some suggestions but without we are all guessing and speculating about YOUR setup. There are some highly knowledgeable people here.

Maybe it is a nylon bushing which will absorb water and swell on the order of 1-3% so if not enough clearance was allowed it would jamb the rudder shaft. Done right it would have been a good bushing. I'm guessing of course.

 

[Robertmark]

Well it looks like I'm going to have to pull the boat, the idea of dropping the rudder in the water is making me more than a little nervous. Anyone got a good quess what a 1985 twin engine, two cabin, 42" Hershine weighs? The yard needs to know, I'm just guessing, 30,000 lbs?

 

[cdsailor]

At least 30,000. Albin 36 comes in around 30,000, despite the literature listing it at 18,000.

 

[Comodave]

Not sure what a 42” would weigh, probably not too much...

My 41’ President weighs about 28000.

 

[catalinajack]

My DeFever 44 weighs 56,000# in the slings. Unloaded design weight is 44,000#. Don't forget the weight of fuel, water, and evrything else brought aboard.

Well it looks like I'm going to have to pull the boat, the idea of dropping the rudder in the water is making me more than a little nervous. Anyone got a good quess what a 1985 twin engine, two cabin, 42" Hershine weighs? The yard needs to know, I'm just guessing, 30,000 lbs?

 

[Robertmark]

Wow!, I'm taking it to cabrillo boat yard, they say they can comfortably lift 40,000#s. I'll dump my fresh water, got about 100 gallons of fuel on board. Gonna get the bottom done and see what's up with the rudder, suspect it is bent, it has always been alittle stiff. My brother has a seawind 1160, he is gonna do it at the same time. All with social distancing!

 

[Robertmark]

Well, drove the boat over too the yard only steering with the motors, love twin props, had the boat hauled, their crane says it weighs 28,000 #s. Unbolted the rudder linkage and removed crown nuts, and pounded the shafts down with a LARGE sledge, super tight. Shafts where straight, just rust and scale in the bushing. Cleaned it all up, new packing, works perfect ?! Everything else looks great! Getting the bottom done and relaunch next week. It all went a little too easy!! Cabrillo boat yard is a pleasure to deal with!

 

[Comodave]

Sounds good, glad you got them fixed.

 

[FF]

Did you install a couple of outboard SS Zerk fittings so you can pump in grease to keep it from happening again?

 

[Robertmark]

No, the design of these tube/bushings wouldn't really allow anything like that. They just barely protrude past the bottom of the boat. It lasted 35 years last time, so I think I'm good. We use this boat alot, probably more than any other boat in our marina, I'm kinda surprised they got bound up. Though, with the twins I don't really use the rudders that much, really just too trim my course, I will start swinging them lock to lock occasionally now.

 

[Capricorn1]

I have bought an 1979 Albin 33 in good shape for it's age.
I am making it a labor of love as it's condition makes it a good project boat.
It had been sitting on land covered in a tarp for 10 + years with a humidifier. Also been cranked over enough times to have kept the Lehman happy.
As always I have left the hard stuff to the nearly end.
If I turned either wheel steering fluid would come out. I have replaced both the O rings on the reservoirs but the rudder is nearly seized. I have unhooked the piston and as expected the wheels turn freely and so does the piston
I have used a long bar as a pry so with a lot of effort it will move from side to side.
Any suggestions on what could be the problem. Does anyone think that the packing gland (?) could have that much grip?
Any help is always appreciated.

If its been out the water that long I would guess the packing has dried right out and stuck to the shaft. Remove and repack the gland putting plenty of grease in and that should sort the issue out

 

[Deano]

I found an issue with my steering last week. It’s normally 5 turns lock to lock but now it’s seven.
Any thoughts? It’s a hynautic system. No visible leaks.

 

[kapnd]

No, the design of these tube/bushings wouldn't really allow anything like that. They just barely protrude past the bottom of the boat..

The grease nipple would go INSIDE the boat, in the Side of the bushing, as close to the packing gland as possible, so that grease pumped in through the nipple would fill the bushing/shaft interface area.
This area is subjected to constant salt water and marine organisms that will eventually grow. Regular greasing should prevent that from happening.

 

[Robertmark]

The design of my rudder bushing is a flat flange/casting with the packing down inside of it, and then the bushing area below that, all bolted down on a large block, fiberglassed to the bottom of the boat, no way to add a zerk. I wish there were. Above that is a thrust/ball bearing that the rudder hangs on, it has a zerk. Deano, my boat has a capilano? Hydraulic system, below each steering wheel shaft is a knob that actually changes the number of turns, for capts. preference.

 

[Ted]

The Kobelt helm pump I used to have had the same adjustment feature

 

[Robertmark]

Another small issue I'm dealing with is the studs on the transom for the zinc's seem to be 1/2"x12 not 1/2" x13. A British thread? Not metric, hard to find. Found some on the internet, but won't receive for awhile. Anyone else come across this?

 

[Murungal]

Congratulations on taking the plunge into trawler boat renovations. I started in January 2018 with a 1978 Albin 36 and have just entered my 3rd year of renovations.

You can look forward to days of euphoria and days of utter dispair at the ratio of around 1 to 100 but just keep at it as it is worth it.

For your siezed rudder search utube for Dangar Marine. This gentleman has posted a number of videos covering his restoration of a 9m steel trawler and also experienced a seized rudder.


His other videos are worth watching particularly his time on the hard stand which he forecasted to be 4 to 5 weeks. His relaunching was an interesting exercise 8 months later.

Keep your chin up and enjoy you journey.

Murungal

 

[cdsailor]

Congratulations on taking the plunge into trawler boat renovations. I started in January 2018 with a 1978 Albin 36 and have just entered my 3rd year of renovations.

You can look forward to days of euphoria and days of utter dispair at the ratio of around 1 to 100 but just keep at it as it is worth it.

Murungal

Marangal,

I'd be interested in comparing project notes. We, too, picked up an Albin 36 in 2018 that we've been improving. Not sure if you're on Facebook, but if you are, check out the Albin 36 Classic FB page. Are you documenting your projects somewhere?