Room to Maneuver

[Open-d]

I know that this might be a difficult questions to answer, but, typically, in a boat listing for, say, $400K, how much room for negotiations is built into that price - typically. 10%, 15%, 20%?

 

[Simi 60]

Depends
I have seen boats start at $800k and sell for $100k

 

[Sabre602]

Yeah, there isn't really a rule of thumb here. You commonly see boats drop in price as they remain on the market for a while. How much? It depends!

 

[Comodave]

There are some brokers on the forum that can lookup particular boats on soldboats.com and see what they have actually sold for in the recent past. That would be a good place to start. Then when I am making an offer on the boat I never phrase it as the boat isn’t worth $X but rather this is all I can afford. Then you are not offending their pride and joy but rather putting the low offer on yourself. Good luck.

 

[Art]

1. If ya know how to "horse trade"... price on used property [of any sort] can often become quite adjustable.

2. If you don't - you might need deep pockets.

Your OP makes it seem you may need to employ #2!

Best Luck!!

PS: 4th post has a portion-technique of "horse traden"! LOL

 

[bligh]

Every seller should know that your offer may be his last.

Also, if you are offering what the boat is worth and you can justify it, your broker should be able to make that argument for you.

 

[Group9]

People are funny. Some will negotiate and some won't. Some are realistic about what their boat is really worth, and some aren't. When we were looking for the boat we bought in 2009, we looked at a same particular model, in a local, pretty large, reservoir, but didn't make an offer. Nothing wrong with it, it was just land locked and was going to be more trouble and expense to move than we wanted to get into.

That boat is still for sale today, at the exact same price it was listed for in 2009. I still drive by it when I am in that area every once in a while. Either the seller really doesn't want to sell it, or he has decided he will wait as long as it takes to get his price.

 

[mvweebles]

Old rules are gone right now. Yacht sales have, for the most part and to varying intensities, been a buyers market forever. Covid has changed that.

For a production boat with a reasonably discernable market value, seemed like 20% reduction off asking price would be about the limit. My hunch is preponderance of sellers (vs majority) seemed to build in a 10% reduction from selling price, then wince hard at the 10% commission. True, the boat may languish and they may ultimately sell the boat for less than your original offer, but the seller doesn't know that when your offer is presented. Broker will describe scenario, but seller may not be ready to reduce that far yet. Definitely a case of "second mouse getting the cheese."

For custom one-off builds or low production runs, all bets are off. A 60 foot aluminum trawler that looked very nice was advertised on this forum for close to $800k.a year later the owner updated that they ended up with under $400k when the dust settled.

In closing, you have to ask yourself how important it is to buy the boat absolutely right. There is no financially reason to own a boat, so it's shades of gray on how bad a deal it is. I've owned my Willard 36 for 22 years and I can honestly tell you I do not remember what I paid for the boat, or what it was listed for. Years of goof memories have totally displaced the financials of purchase. Looking back, makes no difference if we paid 10% too much or too little.

Peter

 

[Chrisjs]

Buying and selling a boat is the opposite of what you would like to do in the stock market. With boats it is usually "buy high - sell low". And remember "what goes around, comes around" when it is your turn to sell again. Everybody on this list is a buyer and (eventually) a seller.

 

[Art]

Here's some opening horse traden questions [and statements]; i.e. getting to learn a bit about the boat and the seller's attitude [need/desire] to sell the boat:

1. How long you owned this boat? - If short time [months to minus two years]... seller probably not too attached to the boat; may be ready to dicker-quicker. If a longer time [two years to..??.. years]. May be in love with boat; could make getting reduced price a bit harder.

2. Why are you selling this boat? - Should let you know at least a bit about how much leverage you have for helping the seller to attain the reason/desire for selling.

3. What are your three favorite items about this boat? / What are the three things you would change about this boat? - Lets you know if the boat actually satisfies the seller or not. Use that knowledge in your price offer reasoning.

4. You have a complete log/receipts accounting for all work done to this boat? Seller's answer to that means a lot... too much for me to get into during this short post.

5. I have cash available. After you and I have thoroughly gone over this boat's qualities and downfalls I will make you happy if the boat meets my criteria and my needs. I like the boat. - Puts the seller at ease that you are a real buyer and that you just may be the buyer to fulfill the seller's desire/need to sell the boat.

6. You have a recent [within last two years] survey on the boat? - If so, read it well. Even if so and especially if not - Tell the seller you are going to have full hull and mechanical surveys done. Watch seller's reaction carefully. Again, similar to #4, too much to get into during this short post.

7. Soon as you and I get preliminary sales papers set up and my 100% refundable down payment in your hands: I can hardly wait till we get chance for hull survey and for a really great sea trial with mechanical surveyor aboard. When do you think we can do that... tomorrow, this week or very soon? - If seller jumps at the chance to set up papers and to show the boat in action means the boat is probably in OK condition. If the seller hesitates... things may not be so good.

All in all - The sale and purchase of a boat [actually of anything] is a dance that should be carefully orchestrated from, in and on each side. In my opinion - TRUTH Rules! Whether being the buyer or the seller... as long as truth is told regarding all portions of the negotiations then the outcome [if purchase ensues or not] can be solidly felt as being okay. A learning experience if you will.

Happy "Boat Buying" Daze! - Art

 

[Arc]

I would rather pay full price for a boat that’s 100% with documentation and good log books then make a deal on a maybe.

 

[oscar]

As always it depends. There is no "typically". What boat? Condition? Where? What time of year? Markets vary with all those parameters. A nice Brand X in South Florida sells in days.... on Lake Huron it sits for a year.

What are the sellers motivations?

If you're worried that a low offer will derail the process and you really want the boat then you are already emotionally involved.

When I saw my boat I really liked it and thought it was very reasonably priced. I did not negotiate and wrote a check.

At the end of the day only one thing matters. What are you willing to pay for this boat?

 

[danderer]

I've found soldboats.com a good resource but only when comparing likes.

It is useful if I want to see what the selling prices were for "an XX' model Y produced between AA and BB".

Much less useful for "trawlers between 40' and 45'". Just too many variables there.

And there are always outliers based in specific boat or seller circumstances.

 

[Jorgeinseal]

It's a sellers market right now, I have offered from 2-10% on 4 boats since August, sellers accepted but once the surveys highlighted major issues I walked away from all 4. Your offer price gets you in the door but the devil is in the details

 

[kthoennes]

Yeah, I know this isn't very helpful but "it depends" is the correct answer. I do think boat asking prices are generally more flexible than say houses, but then as other posters said you have boat owners who don't really want to sell, or boat owners who have no objective sense of value. Or they're upside down on financing and they're trapped at a certain price. My father in law is literally a horse trader and my wife negotiates settlements for an insurance company, and we walked away from three house purchases I remember because we were just a few thousand apart and we wouldn't budge any further -- but even with that family habit of bargaining, the last two boats we bought we offered full asking price. They were sweetheart deals already, fire sale prices because of the sellers' personal circumstances and we weren't going to chisel them further, but then we walked away on a boat once over $700 (and glad we did, that was the tip of the iceberg).

Our slip neighbor was a Bayliner 3988, diesels. Ballpark listing -- asking price is usually around $100K, give or take. Excellent condition, the RIB dinghy and electric davit system alone would be worth $10K used. The husband, our good friend died sadly and his wife listed it for the top end, like $139,000. Maybe, if you found the right buyer and got lucky, but location makes a huge difference here. Finding diesel service techs -- willing to work on boats -- is nearly impossible. In our location you have to find somebody who wants a big boat right here, or is willing to move it, which is not cheap or expensive at that size. And if I'm a buyer who lives on any open water, why would I buy a landlocked boat in South Dakota and deal with moving it, when I could buy a million other boats without that hassle -- unless it was cheap enough to justify the moving cost? Anyway, eventually the asking price came down repeatedly over a couple years to $89, and I assume it finally went for something less, and meanwhile the family paid two or three years of carrying costs.

All depends.

 

[Open-d]

It's a sellers market right now, I have offered from 2-10% on 4 boats since August, sellers accepted but once the surveys highlighted major issues I walked away from all 4. Your offer price gets you in the door but the devil is in the details

Am I to understand that an offer of 90% of asking price is the lowest you made recently? Would a 20% off of asking be considered reasonable under normal circumstances?.

I am trying to get a feel for how much room to negotiate is typically built in asking prices, typically.

 

[Open-d]

1. If ya know how to "horse trade"... price on used property [of any sort] can often become quite adjustable.

2. If you don't - you might need deep pockets.

Your OP makes it seem you may need to employ #2!

Best Luck!!

PS: 4th post has a portion-technique of "horse traden"! LOL

Gee thanks

 

[Art]

Am I to understand that an offer of 90% of asking price is the lowest you made recently? Would a 20% off of asking be considered reasonable under normal circumstances?.

I am trying to get a feel for how much room to negotiate is typically built in asking prices, typically.

If you want "Typical" defined for boat price discount [before you know anything about the boat]... then you might also want... "Typical" defined for what a women [or man] may offer in a relationship [before you know anything about the person].

Do the work: You better find out the boat's [or person's] value before making any sort of offer! That's only logical and could save future problems.

 

[Open-d]

If you want "Typical" defined for boat price discount [before you know anything about the boat]... then you might also want... "Typical" defined for what a women [or man] may offer in a relationship [before you know anything about the person].

Do the work: You better find out the boat's [or person's] value before making any sort of offer! That's only logical and could save future problems.

I don't understand why nobody can just offer their opinion. Say 10-15% or 15-20%. I am not asking for a perfectly-accurate answer, but just a ball-park answer from what your experience is. Of course there are lots of variable, of course you can't give a "for certain" answer, but at least a ball-park answer would be do-able.

It is my initial position to make an offer with a 20% discount and go from there and let the seller respond. Is that unreasonable under typical conditions?

 

[DDW]

Like others have said, it depends a great deal on the boat. The very best thing you can do is (if this is a common production boat) get the sold listings prices, along with the original listings for those boats. That will very quickly tell you what the boat is actually worth - "a thing is worth what someone will pay for it". If it is a unique boat the actual sales price might be anything between 100% and 30% of asking. There will be no way to value it objectively, and even a prior sale or the next one will not set the price a subsequent customer will take, or a subsequent owner will sell for.

 

[Art]

I don't understand why nobody can just offer their opinion. Say 10-15% or 15-20%. I am not asking for a perfectly-accurate answer, but just a ball-park answer from what your experience is. Of course there are lots of variable, of course you can't give a "for certain" answer, but at least a ball-park answer would be do-able.

It is my initial position to make an offer with a 20% discount and go from there and let the seller respond. Is that unreasonable under typical conditions?

In my case: I never make an offer on anything until I learn at least a good bit about it. Once an offer is made [say a 20% reduction off the asking price] - then, the purchaser's $$$ base regarding your feeling for product's worth has been established. Could then be difficult to get the seller to go any lower... given if after further review you feel the reduction should be 30%.

Why do you want to make an offer before learning about the boat?? You're going to need to learn about the boat before making the purchase anyway - or at least you should - IMO!

 

[Open-d]

In my case: I never make an offer on anything until I learn at least a good bit about it. Once an offer is made [say a 20% reduction off the asking price] - then, the purchaser's $$$ base regarding your feeling for product's worth has been established. Could then be difficult to get the seller to go any lower... given if after further review you feel the reduction should be 30%.

Why do you want to make an offer before learning about the boat?? You're going to need to learn about the boat before making the purchase anyway - or at least you should - IMO!

I am just asking for typical, ball-park info, not a specific answer for a specific set of circumstances.

Of course I am going to learn what I can about the boat before making an offer. Why would you assume to the contrary?

I am just asking for general information under "typical", i.e. average circumstances. People keep reading more into this question, which should be easy to answer.

 

[IRENE]

It is my initial position to make an offer with a 20% discount and go from there and let the seller respond. Is that unreasonable under typical conditions?

This sounds reasonable to me.

Some years ago, I did a bunch of research using soldboats to determine an average selling price. My examples were not trawlers, but it worked out to 90% or so of asking, with a few wild departures.

I think a REASONABLE seller would welcome an offer because it starts the conversation.

 

[MurrayM]

Ours sat unsold for 3 years at a price based on emotions/memories/love for their vessel, not the realities of the market at the time. It was late fall, heading into winter and yet another year of marina and insurance fees. We connected with them on some level and we had a young child which seemed to be important to their letting it go, so both buyer and seller ended up happy.

Lots of intangibles!

 

[Open-d]

This sounds reasonable to me.

Some years ago, I did a bunch of research using soldboats to determine an average selling price. My examples were not trawlers, but it worked out to 90% or so of asking, with a few wild departures.

I think a REASONABLE seller would welcome an offer because it starts the conversation.

Thank you very much. This is the sort of foundational information I am looking for. Foundational "in-my-experience" info.

 

[PPandE]

I don't understand why nobody can just offer their opinion. Say 10-15% or 15-20%.

Everyone is offering their opinion. The answer to your question isn't as simple as a pair of numbers. Sellers often over price their boats hoping to wring out every penny form a sucker. Just as often sellers will price low and firm just to move it. So you can't base a rule of thumb based on the sellers.

Assuming:
A savvy broker or seller priced the boat appropriately;
The boat is common enough that comps are plentiful;
There are few if any unique features of the boat;
There are no unusual terms or conditions, then...

A year ago I would have said offer 20% under asking and target 10% under.
Now I'd offer more like 10% under and hope for 5% under.

I can only tell you what I'm doing in my own boat search. I don't really consider the asking price much. I figure out what the boat is worth to me and then offer about 5% less than that. (Unless that's less than asking, then I offer full price)

Good luck.

 

[Open-d]

Everyone is offering their opinion. The answer to your question isn't as simple as a pair of numbers. Sellers often over price their boats hoping to wring out every penny form a sucker. Just as often sellers will price low and firm just to move it. So you can't base a rule of thumb based on the sellers.

Assuming:
A savvy broker or seller priced the boat appropriately;
The boat is common enough that comps are plentiful;
There are few if any unique features of the boat;
There are no unusual terms or conditions, then...

A year ago I would have said offer 20% under asking and target 10% under.
Now I'd offer more like 10% under and hope for 5% under.

I can only tell you what I'm doing in my own boat search. I don't really consider the asking price much. I figure out what the boat is worth to me and then offer about 5% less than that. (Unless that's less than asking, then I offer full price)

Good luck.

Thanks. This is the sort of feedback I am looking for..

 

[PPandE]

Thanks. This is the sort of feedback I am looking for..

I'll caution you to not overlook those assumptions. I've seen boats over or under priced by 50% or more.

 

[firehoser75]

Like others have said, there are soooo many variables. For example, if the boat in question is very competitively (realistically) priced, is in great condition, with a long term owner who has really looked after it, in an area of the market where the boat model is very desireable and this is the only one for sale, offering 20% less than asking in a "seller's" market may just get your offer rejected with no consideration given! This result may not be a good one for the potential buyer as he/she may loose a good boat.
My point with this example is, while under "typical" circumstances (whatever they are) a certain percentage reduction as a starting point may work, I feel (like others have stated) that a more thorough look at the actual market (including location), specific to that exact year, make, model of boat, will help you analyze (takes some effort to determine this info) where to start your negotiations. JMHO.

 

[Open-d]

I'll caution you to not overlook those assumptions. I've seen boats over or under priced by 50% or more.

Yes, thanks.