Replacing rusted out fuel tanks

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How do you evacuate the water from the diesel tank? I guess I'm still skeptical as I'm guessing less than 1/3rd of the tank will be visible so seepage will be a problem. Meaning where the leak appears probably could be deceptive.
the same way the diesel was evacuated. except now into a filter medium to catch any diesel residue letting the clean water go overboard.

Where there is a will, there is a way.
 
How do you evacuate the water from the diesel tank? I guess I'm still skeptical as I'm guessing less than 1/3rd of the tank will be visible so seepage will be a problem. Meaning where the leak appears probably could be deceptive.

The companies that do the tank interior coatings clean the tanks interior with solvent and some use water for rinsing. They use a pump with filters to separate the water out. They also use two stage vacuums to get the liquid out that the pump didn't get.

The filtered water and solvent are pumped into barrels and taken somewhere to be recycled.
 
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the same way the diesel was evacuated. except now into a filter medium to catch any diesel residue letting the clean water go overboard.

Where there is a will, there is a way.


And at LEAST two attorneys with their hands out . . . :D
 
After looking back at the previous threads on this issue I have been motivated to confer the official Boat Award for the most entertaining pair of fuel tanks ever mentioned on a boating forum. Congratulations and Thank You.
 
After looking back at the previous threads on this issue I have been motivated to confer the official Boat Award for the most entertaining pair of fuel tanks ever mentioned on a boating forum. Congratulations and Thank You.

How do you know they are fuel tanks? So far we are only 5% into the story. This hasn't even gotten started yet......

Here's ALL we know:

OP pulled up at the fuel dock and Land Based Fossil Fuel Distribution Expert proceeded to pump 3 times the alleged maximum manufacturers specified fuel quantity into a hole in the deck, which then filled the bilge, and subsequently was pumped into the waterway upon which the black helicopters arrived and charged OP 4 million dollars......

This thread should be good for years to come.....
 
Has anyone heard of using rhino liner inside a steel tank? Was told the military used a rhino liner product inside their huge leaking steel tanks on Oahu. Is there a product for boat tanks?
 
Vince at American Tank

I would strongly suggest you contact Vince at American Tanks. He replaced both tanks in my Grand Banks 42CL. Him and his guys did a FANTASTIC job at a very reasonable price...NOT CHEAP...reasonable.

Basically, Vince will come measure your boat. Then his guys will show up and cut out your old tank. Then they will install several smaller tanks, that are stacked and plumbed together. Not fiberglass work.

One the GB42 CL these guys are the fuel tank EXPERTS.

Vince +1 (619) 253-7035

I was not paid for this, just a happy customer.
 
Has anyone heard of using rhino liner inside a steel tank? Was told the military used a rhino liner product inside their huge leaking steel tanks on Oahu. Is there a product for boat tanks?

There are coating systems specifically formulated for fuel tanks.

Rhino liner may work but it is fairly difficult to apply. The liquid coating is heated and sprayed which cause it to dry quick. Tough to maintain a wet edge and if the edge is starting to cure and harden, the subsequent coat may not adhere properly.
 
Still haven't gotten in to see why my 350 gallon 1981 Formosa port tank

My starboard tank has a slow fuel leak so I just drained it and am returning to the boat to refill it with soapy water, to re-balance the boat.

After redirecting the fuel return line from the engine to the port tank, of course.

I rarely need more than 100 gal anyway. There is no rational option to replace the aluminum tank, on a 1983 33' Permaglass.
 
are your tanks steel or alum? had my alum tanks epoxied on the inside. tanks were leaking at the bottom. cut 3 access ports in the side of each tank. Petroclean from Anacortes drained tanks, cleaned the tanks, epoxied the bottoms and up the sides on the inside of the tanks, polished the fuel and put it back in the tanks. less expensive than pulling the engines and replacing the tanks.
 
When I was contemplating the various options of replacing the fuel tanks on Sanderling, a good friend who was a marine architect as well as a boat yard manager and virtually able to do anything to and with a boat that could possibly be done advised me to NEVER, EVER breach the hull to replace the fuel tanks. He felt that the hull would never be structurally sound, again.

Now if you're just living aboard in a marina and never taking her out, that would be a viable option; if you're contemplating cruising anywhere, don't even think about it. That's not to say that you can undoubtedly find some boat yards willing to breach the hull to replace the tanks, but I wouldn't trust their opinions!

Assuming I have to replace the tank, wouldn't it be easiest to cut a whole in the hull and take it out the side? Seems easier than wrestling with the engines and bulkhead... Any thoughts??
 
Let me have your email and I'll send you an article I wrote for Pacific Yachting magazine a couple of years ago on this subject. It's not a big project provided you are reasonably handy.
RH
rickhudson at shaw.ca
 
Putting the hull back together is mostly about whether there's good enough access to do it and make it strong enough.

As far as the original problem, I'd suggest the OP should get a couple of quotes so he has an idea of what it would cost to just make the problem go away. Take that and the results of any investigation he can do (or can get someone to help with) and then determine what the next steps are from there.
 
I went through tank replacement, both 150 gl. tanks let loose on me in winter storage. I was on land thank god. My insurance company needed to inspect the tanks which where inclosed in sound proofing. They paid for the removel which meant lifting the engine and putting it in the salon and amazingly got them out. I hear all these stories of cutting cockpits and salons apart $$$$$$$$$$$$ It was still pricey but less then half of the the origional quote. Lost fuel capacity, maybe 40 gallon per tank but it came out nice. All re-plummed. Couldn't and wouldn't even consider doing it my self.
 
I went through tank replacement, both 150 gl. tanks let loose on me in winter storage. I was on land thank god. My insurance company needed to inspect the tanks which where inclosed in sound proofing. They paid for the removel which meant lifting the engine and putting it in the salon and amazingly got them out. I hear all these stories of cutting cockpits and salons apart $$$$$$$$$$$$ It was still pricey but less then half of the the origional quote. Lost fuel capacity, maybe 40 gallon per tank but it came out nice. All re-plummed. Couldn't and wouldn't even consider doing it my self.

How did you get the insurance company to pay for tank removal? They pay for anything else?

Inquiring minds want to know.
 
Fuel tanks

I'm 70 years old with two hernias from major liver surgery two years ago.. I'm not getting in there with a sawzall... Access is extremely limited from the inside. Another thought was to cut out the deck above the tank, cut off the top, cut out the baffles and slide in a slightly smaller poly tank...

Free advice is worth what you pay for it so here’s mine:

Do Not Cut A Hole In Your Boat!

Two questions:
1. Do you have the old cast iron tanks (like I had)
2. How do you use your boat? Long distance cruising or weekends and vacations?

If you have the old cast iron tanks they are either rusted out or cracked. Pump them out and have them removed with a sledge hammer. Hire someone.

The previous owner of my boat did that and replaced the old tanks with 100 gal aluminum tanks (plastic would work) that fit through the main cabin door. Easy to install, easy to replace. No modification in the engine room required. My fuel capacity was reduced but that isn’t an issue for me due to how I use the boat. If I really wanted to do a long distance cruise I could strap 12-5 gal cans of diesel across the aft end of my deck and I’d have a 750 nm range even running the generator for most of it. I don’t know your situation but if it’s similar to mine then I’d seriously consider the easy option.
 
When I was contemplating the various options of replacing the fuel tanks on Sanderling, a good friend who was a marine architect as well as a boat yard manager and virtually able to do anything to and with a boat that could possibly be done advised me to NEVER, EVER breach the hull to replace the fuel tanks. He felt that the hull would never be structurally sound, again.
He is simply mistaken. Even composite aircraft are repaired routinely, wings cut open, broken main spars spliced, fuselages broken in two put back together and are certified airworthy afterwards. Sailboat masts likewise are repaired after breaking in two during a dismasting. Many of these repairs are done with visibility to one side only. When you put a broken airplane wing back together, no one crawls inside. In fact in many composite aircraft, control mechanisms are sealed inside and the only way to get to them for maintenance is to cut a hole in the wing.

Now he may have been referring to his own ability to do it, that I cannot vouch for. But repairs to fiberglass structures that are certifiably and testably as strong as the original are routinely done. Whether it is the most cost effective way to replace a tank will depend on particulars, but it definitely can be done, and if done properly need not be a structural concern.
 
He is simply mistaken.

Absolutely true. Just got back from visiting a friend in Florida. He had the tank taken out the side of his Meridian. Beautiful job, can’t tell the boat was cut. He then brought the boat from Florida to Connecticut.

Just have to have the right contractor. He used Marine Max near St Petersburg Fla. price was reasonable as well.

Rob
 
Tank replacement

Once you put the new tanks in there is no good access behind them to put the side back together. Fiberglass needs a wide fairing to adhere properly. Steel boats are just welded from the outside.



Cut up the steel tank from inside the engine room using a saws-all. Replace with pre-made plastic tanks that fit the existing space and will fit around the engines. Connect them all together for less but more appropriate tank volume.

Can someone explain this plastic tanks hooked together? How does that work?
 
One advantage of multiple plastic tanks is they need not all be filled .

For wintering aboard or finding a deal on clean fuel big volume is great.

For most folks long range is not part of their requirement , empty tanks stay clean.
 
Did I read somewhere that bladders could be installed inside existing tanks or did I dream that?


If the tanks aren't baffled, it's often possible. But with baffled tanks, it's not as easy as just stuffing them in there, so likely not much savings of effort in this case.
 
I didn't do anything to get my insurance company (Boat US) to pay, it just happened. The way the tanks where installed the "V" side of the tank was buried so deep into the bildge it couldn't be seen. So pull'em. Boom truck lifted them out through the starboard door. The origional quote was $24K for both, cost me around $11K out of pocket. They where glass covered alumnium that set in water for a long time. Boat US sent a hazmat truck to remove all the fuel, put on quite a show. All covered, was told you don't want to know what this would have coat. They said you
where lucky you where on the hard.
 
I didn't do anything to get my insurance company (Boat US) to pay, it just happened. The way the tanks where installed the "V" side of the tank was buried so deep into the bildge it couldn't be seen. So pull'em. Boom truck lifted them out through the starboard door. The origional quote was $24K for both, cost me around $11K out of pocket. They where glass covered alumnium that set in water for a long time. Boat US sent a hazmat truck to remove all the fuel, put on quite a show. All covered, was told you don't want to know what this would have coat. They said you
where lucky you where on the hard.

You were very lucky.
 
Aluminum Fuel Tanks

January 2, 2015Neil Haynes

For those of you who now own or intend to buy a vessel with aluminum fuel tanks, here are a few things to ponder. There are lots of things that contribute to aluminum fuel tank failures: materials, construction, installation, environment, corrosion and for gasoline powered vessels, fuel quality and additives. The National Technical Information Service did a fairly comprehensive study in conjunction with the U.S.C.G. on aluminum fuel tanks causes of failures. The bottom line is that most aluminum fuel tanks will not last as long as the vessel they are installed in.

Here are some of the pertinent facts reported in this study for your consideration:

Tanks failed in recreational boats from three to 27 years old, both in fresh and salt water.
There were no common problems connected to the reported failures.
Based on the wide range of data, it was not possible to make a realistic determination of the average life of aluminum tanks.
Tanks are prone to failure for a number of reasons, even when installed as required by federal regulations.
Boats of any size are susceptible to tank failures.
75% of boats with failed tanks had inboard engines.
If a problem occurs, it is difficult to detect and repairs will be complex and expensive.
The most alarming fact was 23% of the owners of gasoline powered boats continued to operate them after a problem was detected.
Most of the corrosion failures were due to corrosion on the bottom of the tanks. Aluminum tanks can be affected by pitting, crevice and galvanic corrosion.
55% of these problems involved removing permanent structures to access below deck fuel tanks.
The repairs ranged any where from a few hours to several months.
92% of reported failures were due to corrosion.
Fatigue fractures were mostly confined to tanks with a minimum thickness of .090.
45% of the subject vessels were purchased new.
Only 16% of the cases received any form of help from the manufacturer after a problem occurred.
45% of the cases reported using a fuel additive, like octane booster.
When tanks were replaced, shops generally recommended a thicker .125 inch tank with a chromate primer coating.One really interesting fact revealed in this study was the misconception that storing boats with fuel tanks full actually contributed to corrosion problems due to the concept of “heat capacity of a surfaces.” The large mass of a full fuel tank results in a lower heating and cooling rate for the lower surface of a tank. This large mass means that any condensation which forms on the lower surface of the tank will be retained for longer periods of time as this surface will be the last to respond to ambient temperature. The retention of condensation on the lower surface of the tank will prolong the activity of any corrosion cells which may be present, thus tending to propagate the corrosion process.So what does all this mean to all of us, your prospective as a potential buyer or owner and me a as an inspector?
Here is my take. I have seen lots of tank failures with lots of reasons. A screw through a bulkhead touching a tank; $15,000 repair cost. Poultice corrosion due to pop off inspection covers degrading and tank top debris holding moisture; $ 4,000 repair cost. Cracked weld on a high end sport fisherman due to improper support: $10,000 repair cost. We had to cut two windows in one vessel’s transom and remove tanks out the stern as the most cost affective solution. Cause was improper support as builder used moisture absorbent gasket material causing severe corrosion: $ 5,000.00 per side repair cost. A 1997 fuel tank that pit, corroded from the inside and failed after three years usage and cause was not confirmed.

As an inspector of lots of different types of vessels, I can only inspect what I can see, and it is what we can’t see that bothers me. If you own or intend to buy an older vessel, 12-15 years old, especially a gasoline powered vessel, be prepared for what we see on a frequent basis, the necessity of fuel tank replacement. The older the vessel, the more likely you are to have problems with tanks and usually these problems are costly. One notable tank manufacturer only warrants their tanks out one year. Don’t depend on your insurance company to solve your problem, as most policies will not cover corrosion.

Lots of the folks I come in contact with don’t have pockets deep enough to barely own the boat, much less plop out thousands of dollars for a tank replacement. My advise to prospective buyers, don’t bite off more than you can chew. If you own an older vessel, especially gasoline powered, frequent inspections of fuel components and visible tank surfaces will help to advert disaster.

Use your nose and practice safe recommended fueling practices. A gas fume detector is good equipment to have on board for gasoline powered vessels. If you suspect a fuel tank problem, cease operation immediately and turn off AC and DC power and contact a respectable repair facility. If you have to replace a fuel tank, insure that your chosen repairer knows how to comply with Federal regulations (CFR 183.501-183-590). Also a good understanding of American Yacht and Boat Council recommended practices H-24 for gasoline fuel systems.

Leaking fuel tanks can lead to possible heavy federal fines, so don’t postpone action. Many insurance companies have spill clauses, so investigate coverage clauses with your agent or carrier. Be prepared.

We once pressure tested a suspected diesel tank that held adequate pressure for 24 hours, only later to discover the fractured weld was sitting atop a gasket. A pressure test is not an appropriate diagnostic procedure in my opinion, especially on a thinner older tank as you may burst the tank or a corrosion cell in the process. A global visual inspection is the only way to really know what problems may exist on the outer surfaces of a tank.

Here’s hoping that your fuel stays where it belongs, in your tank. And remember, the Lord loves boaters.

©Neil K. Haynes March 9, 2005
 
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Free advice is worth what you pay for it so here’s mine:

Do Not Cut A Hole In Your Boat!

Two questions:
1. Do you have the old cast iron tanks (like I had)
2. How do you use your boat? Long distance cruising or weekends and vacations?

If you have the old cast iron tanks they are either rusted out or cracked. Pump them out and have them removed with a sledge hammer. Hire someone.


Grand Banks never used cast iron fuel tanks. They used mild steel tanks, sometimes mistakenly called "Black Iron". Also used stainless steel for water tanks, but never cast iron. I apologize if this sounds nit picky, but when we are speaking of different materials used, it helps to be specific, and correct. Glad what you have now is working for you! Safe travels.
 

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