Replacing Damper Plate

[Albin]

I have a 1982 Albin 40 with a 135 hp Ford Noreast diesel (similar to a Lehman) and a Borg Warner 1013 transmission. I have owned the boat since 2005. I have never replaced the damper plate and based on the skills of the previous owner, neither did he. My transmission is working fine but it doesn't get a lot of heavy use because I do most of my cruising here in Nova Scotia just in August and September because of time constraints. My question is, should I proactively pull the tranny and replace the DP even though there is no indication of a problem? Even though I am getting good performance now, is this thing about to turn to dust?

Thanks to all who reply (especially Jay Leonard because I'm sure you've already done this with your boat).

Jeff

 

[Larry M]

I would. If it fails you’re dead in the water and most times without any warning. Two of us changed Hobo’s in less than 4 hours.

 

[Transaxial]

Preventative maintenance like that is a very good thing, specially on a single engine boat! While you have the BW out would it be a worthwhile thing to freshen it up a bit? I currently have a front seal leaking on my BW 72 and my local transmission shop suggests pulling the oil pump and doing some basic checks while it is apart to change the front seal. The tranny only has 100 hrs since the PO had it rebuilt but it is leaking so could be a shaft pitting problem. Either way it is better to fix it when it is out.

 

[Comodave]

I would replace it. I replaced one of mine this year. I had the engine and transmission out so why not. Mine was very easy since they were out. I had no indication of any problems but when we replaced it there were a couple places that were beginning to break.

 

[Brooksie]

Do it. Your damper can take out your bell housing or your ring gear if it comes apart. Yours is very much overdue I'm surprised it doesn't rattle at idle.
Not a hard job, transmission needs only be disconnected and slid back 2-3" to reach in and remove the plate.
I've only been towed twice in 50+ years on the water and it was a damper plate both times.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
THREAD DRIFT ALERT: Mr. B. First thing I thought about was this:

Back to OP's question. Yes. Change it. You've got lots of time between now and August eh?

 

[Larry M]

If you haven’t done one, it’s not hard. Disconnect the shaft from the transmission (after you’ve marked the coupler so it’s goes back the way it came apart), slide it back. You’ll need maybe 3”. With a chain fall and a 4x4, secure the transmission and unbolt it from the bell housing. Slide it back out of the way. Unbolt the bell housing and there’s the dampener plate. We have a single FL SP135. You’ll find more info on the internet but you get the idea. It’s not that complicated.

 

[Comodave]

I have SP225s and PRM transmissions. My damper looks different than the one in the photos but it was very easy to change. In a couple of places there was some damage by the white plastic strip that goes around the middle. So I guess it was about time to change it out.

 

[Jeff F]

How many hours on the motor? No disagreement on recommendations, but if no noise it might not be at the top of my list. I replaced mine when I had the transmission out to do the rear seal. Old one looked fine to me @1400 hrs but I wanted a more modern one anyway.

 

[kchace]

I have SP225s and PRM transmissions. My damper looks different than the one in the photos but it was very easy to change. In a couple of places there was some damage by the white plastic strip that goes around the middle. So I guess it was about time to change it out.

I had the same dampers on my boat. The Stb was replaced not too long before I puchrased the boat and I did the port side. Not sure if this style damper is better/worse/different than the spring type. The one I took off (with 4500 hrs on it) *seemed* ok, but I have no idea of the failure mode for this type and it seemed like 4500 hrs was enough. I was there and a new damper from AD was only a little over $100.

Ken

 

[kmacdonald]

If you have the knowhow and tools on board to change it, just carry a spare.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

I guess carrying a spare is not a bad idea. If the damper goes, it will probably be while you are making or leaving the dock. In and out of gear with a few reverses thrown in will kill it if anything will.

pete

 

[rgano]

If you have the knowhow and tools on board to change it, just carry a spare.

Even if you don't have the skills, having the part handy for somebody who does could save you days.

 

[Larry M]

If the dampener plate fails while you’re under way, you are dead in the water! No jump start, no bandaid to get you back to the dock. It’s a maintenance item. We carry the old one from the first time we changed it and hope I never have to use it.

 

[Duvie]

Speedi-Sleeve

Preventative maintenance like that is a very good thing, specially on a single engine boat! While you have the BW out would it be a worthwhile thing to freshen it up a bit? I currently have a front seal leaking on my BW 72 and my local transmission shop suggests pulling the oil pump and doing some basic checks while it is apart to change the front seal. The tranny only has 100 hrs since the PO had it rebuilt but it is leaking so could be a shaft pitting problem. Either way it is better to fix it when it is out.

Tansaxial, I had a pitting problem on the input shaft of my BW velvet drive on my Shamrock center console. Priced out a new input shaft at $475.00. Did a little research and came up with an SKF Speedi-sleeve. EBasic Power had the correct size for the input shaft. Seemed to work great. Tapped right on easily. No leaks so far but I have not had the boat in the water yet. I did run it on the trailer.

About $30.00

 

[boatpoker]

Single engine guy with somewhere over 22,000 hrs. in the log.
My one and only tow was due to a damper plate going without warning in mid-gulfstream.

If you're lucky you can hear the springs starting to go but ours gave no warning.

 

[Transaxial]

Tansaxial, I had a pitting problem on the input shaft of my BW velvet drive on my Shamrock center console. Priced out a new input shaft at $475.00. Did a little research and came up with an SKF Speedi-sleeve. EBasic Power had the correct size for the input shaft. Seemed to work great. Tapped right on easily. No leaks so far but I have not had the boat in the water yet. I did run it on the trailer.

About $30.00

Thanks for the input. I have used Speedi-sleeves on other equipment with success but my Velvet Drive guy says not to do it in this app. Something about damaging the seal when you reassemble the front pump and new seal. Obviously it worked for you! What do you think?

 

[Choices]

We changed our 135 in two and a half hours, on-off the boat. Engine room noise dropped dramatically. Go to my blog, grandbankschoices and go through the pictures. I will clarify anything you have questions about.

 

[Albin]

We changed our 135 in two and a half hours, on-off the boat. Engine room noise dropped dramatically. Go to my blog, grandbankschoices and go through the pictures. I will clarify anything you have questions about.

Thanks for your reply The pics should be very helpful. I'll go through them and get back to you if I have any questions. I appreciate the help.
Jeff

 

[Albin]

Single engine guy with somewhere over 22,000 hrs. in the log.
My one and only tow was due to a damper plate going without warning in mid-gulfstream.

If you're lucky you can hear the springs starting to go but ours gave no warning.

That's good to know. I was relying on funny noises or vibrations to give me some warning but now I'm rethinking that strategy. Thanks for your input.

 

[Albin]

How many hours on the motor? No disagreement on recommendations, but if no noise it might not be at the top of my list. I replaced mine when I had the transmission out to do the rear seal. Old one looked fine to me @1400 hrs but I wanted a more modern one anyway.

I have about 2500 hrs but it's the years that worry me more than the mileage. I'm leaning towards changing it. I think it has become a "peace of mind" kind of thing at this point.

 

[Albin]

Do it. Your damper can take out your bell housing or your ring gear if it comes apart. Yours is very much overdue I'm surprised it doesn't rattle at idle.
Not a hard job, transmission needs only be disconnected and slid back 2-3" to reach in and remove the plate.
I've only been towed twice in 50+ years on the water and it was a damper plate both times.

The 2" or 3" surprises me. I thought the tranny would have to be pulled out entirely. How is 3" enough room to get an arm and wrench in to unbolt the damper plate?

 

[kapnd]

Many damper plate failures I’ve seen have been caused by rust.
Since it’s mostly impossible to look at it without dropping the transmission, problems can go undetected.
I painted the last one I put in my boat, hopefully that will delay rust damage.

 

[SoWhat]

At 2500 hours you are at the bottom of expected service life. Technically it's an easy job for an experienced mechanic. It is NOT something you would attempt in open water. Some good tips in this and prior threads on velvet drive removal.

Rig a traveler beam and use a chain or ratchet hoist. Insert a couple of threaded rods in trans. lower holes to aid in alignment. Have a good click torque wrench. Use thread anti-seize when reassembling. I would probably replace the input shaft oil seal while transmission is out. Another quick and easy job.

 

[Duvie]

71c series transmission

Transaxial, the transmission I did this on was a 71c. The front seal can be tapped in place after everything else is put back together. I installed the sleeve and seal without dismantling the transmission at all. I would think that yours would be similar but it sounds like from your post your mechanic is saying the pump section on yours has to come apart to replace the seal.

The sleeve and seal was a quick, easy 10 minute job on the 71 series. I see no reason why it should not last a very long time.

The reason I pulled my transmission was the Damper plate was starting to chatter at idle speeds. I fish the river and the boat is in and out of gear at idle constantly to maintain position. I had to chuck up the damper plate hub in the vice to be able to apply enough force to the plate to feel the play in it.

 

[Brooksie]

I have SP225s and PRM transmissions. My damper looks different than the one in the photos but it was very easy to change. In a couple of places there was some damage by the white plastic strip that goes around the middle. So I guess it was about time to change it out.

That's the R&D brand damper.
I was a big believer for a time because the R&D, unlike the spring dampers, has a get-home feature that allows low powering after the urethane element fails. However after having one fail in a different mode, I am no longer a fan. The center splines were not properly hardened, stripped out, and took the transmission input shaft with them. A $500. shaft as I recall. Also, because there are no springs to rattle, they can fail w/o warning. They are made in UK and distributed by PYI in the US. I got no satisfaction from either.

 

[Brooksie]

The 2" or 3" surprises me. I thought the tranny would have to be pulled out entirely. How is 3" enough room to get an arm and wrench in to unbolt the damper plate?

Oh sorry, what I meant was it only has to go back 2-3" to lift it out or roll it to the side.

 

[Max Simmons]

My experience, I replaced the dampener on the Starboard side. I could not slide the shaft back far enough for the tranny to clear. I ended up having to raise the back of the engine about 2 inches so the tranny would slide off. Replaced dampener and re-built tranny while it was out. Had to re-align after all was re-installed.
Perkins 135 w/Velvet Drive 72C

 

[Robvald]

hi all,
with all of you here that have changed the dampner plate in your boat did you notice that the engines idled smoother at all ? I am wondering if mine need replacing on my FL 80 hp engines. the vibration in the boat seems eccessive up to about 850 rpms. changed all otor mounts last year. not much better.
Thanks

 

[Choices]

A failing dampner plate will allow vibration on the transmission input shaft. So the chatter will trash the seal, bearings, etc.

If your engine seems to have valve train noise it could be a dampner failing.