Removing a Halon FE for Inspection

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Not another Survey Item.

I have a Fireboy automatic fire extinguisher in my engine room. Being in the military (USAF) I have a very healthy respect for halon. No as of now, I have no plans to replace it unless it goes bad. The nearest inspection is in Vancouver WA and I don't want to pay travel (2 times) to just remove and re-install it. I can drive there a lot cheaper.

So how do you disconnect it without setting it off?

 

[Baker]

And I am subscribing to this since I am going through the same thing.

 

[Xsbank]

If the gauge shows it in the green, don’t touch it. Halo is unobtaineum now unless you are an airline. Or other silly rules somebody made up.

 

[Baker]

I am learning nobody services these things except the manufacturer. You must ship it to them. Servicing and freight are about the same price as a new bottle. And a new bottle is not cheap. I have been boasting about my bigger engine room. Well the bigger the engine room, the bigger the bottle needed. I am looking at close to $3k for a new bottle.

 

[Chrisjs]

As I recall our annual Fireboy inspection involved:
1. Visual inspection for rust etc.
2. Check date of manufacture for tank pressure certification (I think 10 year expiration without hydro test)
3. Check linkage
4. Remove tank and check weight
5. Check auto control at helm (ability to override auto engine shutdown in emergency)
6. Reinstall tank and apply inspection tag.
Not sure about all details and might have missed a couple of things. If you are checking for insurance, a DIY probably will not suffice.

 

[Comodave]

I take mine to a fire protection business, not all certify them, so you may have to call a few to find one who will do it. The one I use is a 2.5 hour drive but close to my mother in laws so I link the trip to a visit with her. They check it and certify it for $10. I wait while they do it so it is only one trip. It takes them about 15 minutes. The absolutely only way to verify that it is full is to weigh it. There will be a weight range on the bottle. It should come inside the weight range. It can have a slow leak and the little ampule will not have broken and halon does not leave a residue so you can’t tell if it has leaked or not, except by weight. Mine just has 2 wires that go to the helm gauge. It looks like yours has a manual release pull cable. So you will have to disconnect the pull cable but that should just be a nut and bolt connection. They can service it if it is low on halon IF the company has halon in stock from recovery from other systems, not all fire companies have recycled halon. The halon should not release if you don’t pull on the manual release cable. Also don’t drop it... although my dog knocked it over on the concrete floor, I was sweating it for a minute but it didn’t get damaged.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Thanks. But how do you take it out. It has an electrical and manual cable..

 

[Larry M]

We had a similar conversation over a couple of brown bottles a few weeks ago. I got this the next day. Post 28 may help but I accept no responsibility if it doesn’t go as planned.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f117/question-about-removing-halon-extinguisher-207608-2.html

 

[caltexflanc]

Why not call the inspection company and ask them?

Are you in Portland? A quick web search seems to reveal there are a few marine halon servicers there.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I am 40 miles north of Portland. If they come here I am charged travel twice. Easier if I could just take it in.

Why not call the inspection company and ask them?

Are you in Portland? A quick web search seems to reveal there are a few marine halon servicers there.

 

[Comodave]

You will have to undo the manual release cable. The electrical plug should just pull off. It is probably 2 connectors inside the plug. Then unbolt or unscrew the brackets holding the bottle and remove it. It really isn’t too hard. Your manual release cable makes it a bit more work but still should not be difficult.

 

[captDJ]

If I have deisel everything do I need it on my boat? Btw I just found it as I am installing a new generator I looked up and there it is in a crazy place.

 

[Comodave]

Yes, diesel boats can have fires too. Most boat fires are due to electrical problems not fuel related.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

You will have to undo the manual release cable. The electrical plug should just pull off. It is probably 2 connectors inside the plug. Then unbolt or unscrew the brackets holding the bottle and remove it. It really isn’t too hard. Your manual release cable makes it a bit more work but still should not be difficult.

Thank you. I just don't want it blowing up in my face. Any chance of it blowing when the electrical connection is disconnected?

 

[Comodave]

No they are low voltage wiring. It is the sending wiring for the light on your helm that the halon has not released. When the halon releases, on most units, there is a small ampule filled with a liquid. When the E/R get too hot the liquid expands and the ampule explodes releasing the pin that opens the halon bottle. The plug on the bottle is probably just a push on plug with 2 contacts in it. Just pull on it gently and it should just slide off. As to the manual release, I have not undone one of them but it is just a mechanical connection to the pull cable. Look it over and just undo whatever mechanical connection there. That is the one to be careful with because that could release the halon if you pull on it wrong. The electrical connection is simple. Be careful with the manual release so you don’t pull on it. Then undo the 2 metal straps and it is out. Mine is about 6 or 7” diameter and maybe 20” long. Not too bad to get out but it is horizontally mounted at the top of my E/R so it is hard to hold up there and start the screws on the metal straps. Good luck!

 

[WayneDana2]

Thank you. I just don't want it blowing up in my face. Any chance of it blowing when the electrical connection is disconnected?

There's 2 types of Air Force guys...
Ones who have blown the squibs on the halon bottles,
And the ones who are gunna.

(I always hated doing stray voltage checks and then hooking the squibs back up)Just joshin' Tom. Kinda.

 

[rslifkin]

There's 2 types of Air Force guys...
Ones who have blown the squibs on the halon bottles,
And the ones who are gunna.

(I always hated doing stray voltage checks and then hooking the squibs back up)Just joshin' Tom. Kinda.

Aircraft bottles are electrically fired, however. This one isn't. The wiring on this bottle is only for sensing.

 

[helm]

We have a similar system on our boat, and like you I had no idea how to take it out safely and there was nothing on line describing the process. So for your own peace of mind bite the bullet have a tech come out show you how to safely take it out, and while they are there they can recertify your bottle for you. Basically they just weighed ours and visually inspected the system. The process for removal is actually very simple after you have seen it once you will be good to go.
We have to remove ours to get around to the outboard side of our port engine.
Eric

 

[slowgoesit]

Just curious, is there any requirement (USCG, ABYC, or NFPA) that states that a fire suppression system MUST be inspected, if it is not required?
We're still looking for our next boat, but I have an engine room Halon 1301 bottle that was taken out of my first boat. It was manufactured in the early '80's. It is well past hydro, but looks great and weighs within limits . . . . my intent was to install it in our next boat to augment whatever is there or whatever I put in. I'm a big 1301 fan.

Oh, and although I wasn't an Air Scout, I WAS involved in one deployment of an aircraft halon fire suppression system, well, actually TWO bottles, one right after the other, using the crossover line . . . but that was in flight . . . but that's another story, for another time.

 

[Northern Spy]

Just curious, is there any requirement (USCG, ABYC, or NFPA) that states that a fire suppression system MUST be inspected, if it is not required?
We're still looking for our next boat, but I have an engine room Halon 1301 bottle that was taken out of my first boat. It was manufactured in the early '80's. It is well past hydro, but looks great and weighs within limits . . . . my intent was to install it in our next boat to augment whatever is there or whatever I put in. I'm a big 1301 fan.

I have a fireboy 1301 bottle from the 80s too. My take on it is that it is like having expired flares on board. Will they work? Maybe. Am I depending on them? Nope.

But I meet the legal requirement for extinguishers and flares and anything else is outside of the scope. I take my expired flares off and bottle of the boat for surveys to avoid the hassle of, well, surveyors being surveyors.

For the record. At one time in my life I was certified to inspect and maintain fire extinguishers. It is not rocket science. I feel comfortable with the old fireboy in place. Halon is non corrosive, the bottle is excellent shape and it weighs perfect.

The fact that the military still uses 1301 tells you it is effective, even at it's exorbitant price. It is low toxic, doesn't displace oxygen and can be breathed in at fairly high concentrations 70000ppm (7%) with little effect. It is an ideal fire suppressant, with the exception that it depletes stratospheric ozone fantastically efficiently. If you get yours reclaimed, it will just end up being sold to Uncle Sam to be used on an airplane or ship.

Best case scenario, it helps prevent the spread of a fire. Worst case scenario, it discharges or leaks just sitting there in the engine room. Keep in mind that at normal room temperature Halon 1201 is at 250psig in the bottle.

Also for the record, I also used to be a refrigeration technician, developed curriculum and taught courses in the 90's so I am completely aware of the Montreal Protocol and it's implications.

And more recently, I maintain ASME pressure vessels in an industrial setting.

So I have a good idea of what I am doing and not doing correctly.

Code is there for a reason. I have up to date copies of a lot of code, and I have a higher than average understanding of them. I get that.

I am not recommending that you keep the bottle or not. I am advising that whichever route you choose, understand the risk by understanding the likelihood and consequences if something goes awry and how it may affect you personally.

I am not a P. Eng.
I do not take passengers for hire.
In fact, I rarely have passengers on board.
I inspect and maintain my own boat to a decent standard.
I also understand my insurance policy requirements.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

There's 2 types of Air Force guys...
Ones who have blown the squibs on the halon bottles,
And the ones who are gunna.

(I always hated doing stray voltage checks and then hooking the squibs back up)Just joshin' Tom. Kinda.

Aircraft bottles are electrically fired, however. This one isn't. The wiring on this bottle is only for sensing.

Oh, and although I wasn't an Air Scout, I WAS involved in one deployment of an aircraft halon fire suppression system, well, actually TWO bottles, one right after the other, using the crossover line . . . but that was in flight . . . but that's another story, for another time. [/QUOTE]

I hated the Hydrazine in F-16s

 

[slowgoesit]

O

I hated the Hydrazine in F-16s

Wasn't Hydrazine also used in the manuevering thrusters on the Space Shuttle?

 

[MartySchwartz]

Wasn't Hydrazine also used in the manuevering thrusters on the Space Shuttle?

Yep, and nasty stuff it is too.


Tom, I think you already have your answer but it is simple to do:


1. Unplug the switch connector (that is a signal wire to your shutdown controller).
2. Carefully disengage the remote actuator cable.

3. Loosen the mounting mechanism.
4. Remove the bottle and take it to a fire extinguisher shop being very careful to not hit that top on anything. They weight it and re-certify it.
5. Reinstall by reversing steps.


My FE241 bottle has the protective cage around the dispensing nozzle to provide some protection.


And thanks for the reminder that mine is due. My local shop charges me $8.50 to re-certify mine.


Marty......................

 

[Greggnvt]

Halon inspection

I set up a on-boat appointment with a fire extinguisher company. Had 3 Halon units to inspect including the automatic engine kill system. This was a “regular” fire extinguisher company-not Marine specific. I was in Niceville, FL at the time. Tech came on-board with portable scales, we disconnect the auto shutoff wiring, weight the extinguishers (all we’re good ,1990 vintage), remounted, tested the auto shutdown system-all good. Cost was just under $300.00
I did this for piece of mind and did send a copy of the certificate and receipt to my insurance company when I updated my policy.

Gregg

 

[Steve DAntonio]

First, the pressure gauge is not an accurate indicator of the bottle's condition, it's cursory. You can have the correct pressure, and the incorrect weight, or content. If, on the other hand, the gauge is low, that's a sure indicator of a problem.

When I managed a boat yard I eventually realized the fire service company coming to the yard knew less about marine systems than I did, so we instituted our own in house service program. Weighing the unit with an accurate scale is a critically important step in this process.

While Halon is now rare (and well worth keeping), it is safe in that it is not toxic if used in the correct concentration. However, you can suffer burns and eye damage if your trigger it, I have seen this happen. When handling it wear safety glasses, gloves and coveralls.

If you look at the means by which the cable engages the trigger, it's usually a lever the breaks a liquid-filled glass vial, or a bimetallic element. If you don't pull on the wire, you won't set it off.

Remove the cable jacket securing pin, lift the jacket out of its cradle and then unhook the cable end from the lever. Then unship the unit from the bulkhead. Then cover the head with a quart mixing cup or other similar protection and tape in place to protect it. Place it in a padded box for transport.

Based on the photo you may have an installation location issue, the bottle should be mounted as high as possible, with the nozzle close to the overhead, as it is temperature that triggers this, at 175F, you want it to get hot as early as possible.

You might find this video useful https://vimeo.com/160266778

And this article https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/...Fixed-Fighting-PWCFA15_HOC3_Fire-DAntonio.pdf

Be careful.

 

[Comodave]

When I managed a boat yard I eventually realized the fire service company coming to the yard knew less about marine systems than I did, so we instituted our own in house service program. Weighing the unit with an accurate scale is a critically important step in this process.

Be careful.[/QUOTE]

When I took mine in the first time to a fire company they asked me what is was. I had to teach them how to inspect it. They charge me $10 now to inspect it and weigh it. Not bad.

 

[OldDan1943]

I'm not surprised you know more about the safety equipment than the inspectors.

 

[Steve DAntonio]

When I managed a boat yard I eventually realized the fire service company coming to the yard knew less about marine systems than I did, so we instituted our own in house service program. Weighing the unit with an accurate scale is a critically important step in this process.

Be careful.

When I took mine in the first time to a fire company they asked me what is was. I had to teach them how to inspect it. They charge me $10 now to inspect it and weigh it. Not bad.[/QUOTE]

Not surprised. Also, if the bottle is linked to an engine/ventilation shut down relay, as it should be for a diesel, that too should be tested by any professional outfit, they should simulate a discharge and ensure everything shuts down as it should. I do this on every sea trial I run and encounter non-functioning systems often enough to make it worth the trouble.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

First, the pressure gauge is not an accurate indicator of the bottle's condition, it's cursory. You can have the correct pressure, and the incorrect weight, or content. If, on the other hand, the gauge is low, that's a sure indicator of a problem.

When I managed a boat yard I eventually realized the fire service company coming to the yard knew less about marine systems than I did, so we instituted our own in house service program. Weighing the unit with an accurate scale is a critically important step in this process.

While Halon is now rare (and well worth keeping), it is safe in that it is not toxic if used in the correct concentration. However, you can suffer burns and eye damage if your trigger it, I have seen this happen. When handling it wear safety glasses, gloves and coveralls.

If you look at the means by which the cable engages the trigger, it's usually a lever the breaks a liquid-filled glass vial, or a bimetallic element. If you don't pull on the wire, you won't set it off.

Remove the cable jacket securing pin, lift the jacket out of its cradle and then unhook the cable end from the lever. Then unship the unit from the bulkhead. Then cover the head with a quart mixing cup or other similar protection and tape in place to protect it. Place it in a padded box for transport.

Based on the photo you may have an installation location issue, the bottle should be mounted as high as possible, with the nozzle close to the overhead, as it is temperature that triggers this, at 175F, you want it to get hot as early as possible.

You might find this video useful https://vimeo.com/160266778

And this article https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/...Fixed-Fighting-PWCFA15_HOC3_Fire-DAntonio.pdf

Be careful.

Thank you. I appreciate your time to guide me through the process. BTW the bottle is about as high as it physically go.

 

[Eldo850]

The fixed fire system should be looked at as one unit. Not just the bottle, while the connections are off, check the actuating cable for free movement, do the electrical components test OK, does the detection have a back up battery that needs replacing. All very well saving a few bucks if you,re not an expert but terribly disappointing if it fails to fire in time of need.