release the nautical masses from nautical terms

[Hippocampus]

Also in discussions with yards or techs terminology is important. Many things are boat specific-ceiling, floors, stringers, stations etc. I tell the yard pleas check the ceiling on port side around station 4 they know what I mean. I tell a crew please ease the starboard sheet on the primary it’s done even if a rope is on the deck nearby. Yes the heads was climbing out on the bowsprit to poop although the poop deck is aft. I don’t have a steering oar on the right side of the boat nor do I need to tie up only on the left side of the boat. Yes, the evolution of the terms maybe of historical interest alone. But the terms are functional and eliminate confusion.
In my field they have changed terms to the detriment of function and spirit in the view of many. Now patients are clients. To my mind clients implies a business relationship whereas patients has a history of the relationship not being just economic. Husbands are significant others on the OB chart. qHS can’t be written. Need to spell out hour of sleep. Same with BID or TID which was used to distinguish from q12 or q8 ( twice a day v every 12 hours etc.). Often it was useful to use Latin on rounds to preserve patient privacy when there were others in the room of whom you didn’t know the relationship to the patient. Now with HIPAA you waste time and patient care is degraded as communication has become more difficult.
On a boat you want what you say or hear to have only one meaning. You want the terms to sound so different that even in noisy surrounds or when stressed they are easy to distinguish from each other. It’s not just the romance of the language used. It’s functional and has evolved over centuries. Don’t mess with success.

 

[Shrew]

I think the nomenclature is about specificity. It's archaic nature only stands to prove that it has stood the test of time both in purpose and in that a suitable substitute hasn't worked itself into the lexicon.

You are absolutely welcome to be as lubberly as you want.....it's your boat. While landlubbers roll their eyes when boaters use nautical terms. Know that boaters all roll their eyes behind your back when you use the terrestrial terms for nautical things.

Interesting side note. Everyone I know refers to the bow line on a dinghy as a painter. After all, that's its name. so when you holler, "hand me your painter" everyone knows what you're talking about. This past summer, a kid pulled away from his families anchored boat and had his painter dragging. I yelled several times that his painter was in the water. He looked at me confused and they proceeded to foul the dinghy prop in the painter.

Ya, I guess that's my fault. Stupid nautical terms. LOL!!!!

 

[O C Diver]

Using the english language to describe things is its basis but giving new names to accepted definitions is fun but a little silly

I see the problem. Most of the nomenclature isn't new and actually predates the USA. A ship's head is a good example.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_(watercraft)

The nautical mile and speed in knots.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nautical_mile

Now I understand that most American boaters use MPH because there to lazy to learn something new. Same reason we haven't adopted the metric system, laziness.

Ted

 

[mvweebles]

What no port and starboard complaint?
I've always viewed people who can't be bothered with the nomenclature, as a sign of how serious they are about boating in general.

Best answer. Intent is not to be snobby or to isolate newcomers, but there are traditions and useful terms. Obviously, naming sails on a tall-ship is a Trivia Pursuit question, but knowing names of springlines is helpful to have effective communication between captain and crew. That said, I can never remember the names without some thought - when I drove an 85-foot dinner cruise boat for a while on SF Bay, docklines were 'numbered' from bow to stern so it was literally a 10-second conversation on how we would depart Three-One-Two meant stern line was tossed first, then bow line, then midship/breast.

So, does anyone have their depth sounder calibrated to read in fathoms? Or anchor rode labeled to read in shots? I think we all take some 'lubberly' liberties.

Peter

 

[mvweebles]

Now I understand that most American boaters use MPH because there to lazy to learn something new.

Traditionally, nautical charts do not have a dedicated distance scale. Why? Because a nautical mile is defined as 1/60th of a degree of latitude (NOT longitude as this varies - longer near equator, shorter near poles). Until the advent of chart plotters, every nav station had some basic drafting tools - including a pair of dividers. So it was easy to pick-off a distance with the graduations shown on the margin of a chart.

No longer useful you say? Certainly not as useful as it was pre-chartplotter, but knowing the origins is helpful to underpin thought process behind navigation. It would be like saying its no longer necessary to learn multiplication tables.

Peter

 

[rslifkin]

Now I understand that most American boaters use MPH because there to lazy to learn something new. Same reason we haven't adopted the metric system, laziness.

I've found that sailors tend to use knots and nautical miles. Powerboaters are a mixed bag. Those used to inland boating (even on the Great Lakes) tend to use mph and statute miles. Coastal, they're more likely to use knots and nautical miles. I'm used to knots and nautical miles, so I end up having to do a bunch of math when talking to any of the other powerboaters around here.

 

[Steve1.0]

I have an anchor-puller-upper, a water-letter outer, and many other useful items onboard.
Oh, I also have several bumpers which I like to leave dangling so they get a good washing.

 

[FoxtrotCharlie]

Early on in our boating life I learned " I Left my bottle of Port on the dock". has worked for years - and yes it means I'm facing the pointy end.

 

[FoxtrotCharlie]

Saloon...Bwahahaha...

Was going to argue with you re salon vs saloon, but then realized that's where we often gather for drinks - so I concede

 

[Stabi]

question: Is it really a bathroom if there is no bath?

 

[backinblue]

Early on in our boating life I learned " I Left my bottle of Port on the dock". has worked for years - and yes it means I'm facing the pointy end.

And there's also "Jack left red port wine" for navigating.

Some are just tradition, some are very useful or even absolutely necessary. You wouldn't get far sailing with someone who said "pull on the rope".

 

[soin2la]

Where I boat, flotsam and jetsam are a real and present danger (driftwood is hazardous). When non-boaters are aboard, I don’t want to hear “there’s a log over there,” or worse, just “LOG!” So I make it a point that they at least understand port and starboard. I might take it a bit further and introduce the clock; “log at 1 o’clock” for example. Maybe even bow, stern and dead ahead, depending on my judgement of their comprehension or willingness to learn.

I do find it interesting though, most children, say under 10-12 are eager to learn nautical terms from grandpa and have fun using them.

Precise language only works if the people who are using it know the language and all the definitions. A full time sailor talking to a weekend boater will spend more time explaining the words than conveying the message if he uses "nautical" terms vs. plain english.

Plain English isn’t always plain though and sometimes it takes longer to explain what is plain to you, but not to others. If we don’t educate the weekender to even basic terms, i.e. port and starboard, it can lead to minor or major incidents when on the water; see my opening comment.

A bathroom and a toilet are a bathroom and a toilet, even on a boat.

So, do you go to the bathroom to use the toilet or go to the bathroom on the toilet?

In my plain English, “toilet” is a fixture not a space and to some US folks “washroom” is where you do laundry, but if guests want to use their own plain English and call it a bathroom, toilet, washroom, lavatory or loo, I’m ok with that, just don’t clog, plug, block, or stop it.

I’m also ok with winch, steer, gear shifter and paddle, but bumpers bug the hell out of me and painter just confounds me.

Using the english language to describe things is its basis but giving new names to accepted definitions is fun but a little silly

New names? Seems to me, oft used nautical terms have been around a lot longer than their politically correct, twitter taught “plain English.” Lol, KWIM?

I find it amusingly ironic you are a carpenter and wonder how you would get along in Canada. More than 50 years ago, we switched to metric, yet go by any construction site and you’ll hear; “Angus, toss me up a three foot 2x4 and grab a handful of two inch nails.”

Can I call that fancy saw an angle cutter? Will any hammer do, or do you ask for a framing, tacking or 8 pound sledge at the hardware store? Is there an un-plumb bob?

I've found that sailors tend to use knots and nautical miles. Powerboaters are a mixed bag.

Do you mean sailers?

This all makes me wonder if the legal profession might also adapt to the man on the street. https://youtu.be/ZBk3dJNSQks

 

[koliver]

Also in discussions with yards or techs terminology is important. Many things are boat specific-ceiling, floors, stringers, stations etc. I tell the yard pleas check the ceiling on port side around station 4 they know what I mean. I tell a crew please ease the starboard sheet on the primary it’s done even if a rope is on the deck nearby. Yes the heads was climbing out on the bowsprit to poop although the poop deck is aft. I don’t have a steering oar on the right side of the boat nor do I need to tie up only on the left side of the boat. Yes, the evolution of the terms maybe of historical interest alone. But the terms are functional and eliminate confusion.
In my field they have changed terms to the detriment of function and spirit in the view of many. Now patients are clients. To my mind clients implies a business relationship whereas patients has a history of the relationship not being just economic. Husbands are significant others on the OB chart. qHS can’t be written. Need to spell out hour of sleep. Same with BID or TID which was used to distinguish from q12 or q8 ( twice a day v every 12 hours etc.). Often it was useful to use Latin on rounds to preserve patient privacy when there were others in the room of whom you didn’t know the relationship to the patient. Now with HIPAA you waste time and patient care is degraded as communication has become more difficult.
On a boat you want what you say or hear to have only one meaning. You want the terms to sound so different that even in noisy surrounds or when stressed they are easy to distinguish from each other. It’s not just the romance of the language used. It’s functional and has evolved over centuries. Don’t mess with success.

This post has my vote as the most compelling explanation offered here.

One quibble though: The poop was never where a sailor went to use the head. The poop is so called, because in French, the term for the stern of the boat is "poupe", sim in Latin. (wiki) So the deck at the stern was the poop, long before the head came inside the hull.

 

[Art]

This post has my vote as the most compelling explanation offered here.

One quibble though: The poop was never where a sailor went to use the head. The poop is so called, because in French, the term for the stern of the boat is "poupe", sim in Latin. (wiki) So the deck at the stern was the poop, long before the head came inside the hull.

What - You don't thimk my mermaid was compelling enough - LOL

How old are you... anyway??

 

[Portage_Bay]

question: Is it really a bathroom if there is no bath?

My boat's head has a bathtub. So maybe I do have a bathroom after all?

 

[koliver]

What - You don't thimk my mermaid was compelling enough - LOL

How old are you... anyway??

Ha
I never would have looked the wrong way.
Whenever my wife points out a mermaid (it does work that way) I have already seen her, as my Radar still works very well.

 

[dannc]

Some nautical terms are REQUIRED, starboard and port included. Telling someone on a sailboat to pull on that rope, well, which rope? The dock line? The halyard? The jib sheet? The furling line? The Anchor rode? ....

Having said that, some terms are kinda iffy and they are names for the boat interior. Head, salon, settee, and galley don't really imply anything different than bathroom, living/family room, couch or kitchen. Though as others have said, is a bathroom really a bathroom, if there is no bath?

If we have to use the word settee instead of couch, there should be a nautical word for chair...

My granny had a settee but it was a couch. I really stumble over saying settee on a boat. Just seems odd.

My definition of a galley is a small kitchen, so on some boats there is a galley, and not a kitchen, but other boats have a kitchen and not a galley.

Later,
Dan

 

[backinblue]

Wifey B: I see some as necessary and some as inflated sense of something, but I'm not sure what. :lol:

European builders are less rigid than many here. Why call a bedroom a stateroom? And then the Master Stateroom? Doesn't that sound a bit pompous and there is zero difference in meaning. Same with galley vs. kitchen and head and bathroom. And for those who claim port and starboard are different than left and right, not to the boat. Port is the boat's left side. That doesn't change to the boat, based on where the human is. And when someone not into boating calls a line a rope, if trying to train them it may be important, but if you just want them to hand it to you, not so much.

Yes, we need to educate but not be pedantic in doing so. Homebuilders are changing. Some are labeling bedrooms as Sleep and some labeling dining rooms as Eat. If the point is made, then fine. If, however, the point isn't made and something is lost to a critical mission, then ^###&$&^.

Just pick your battles carefully and don't run people away for the wrong reasons. Why I haven't seen issues on terms on the forum, I sadly have in real. I saw a man being rude to a woman, who I assume was wife, girlfriend, or prospective girlfriend, right before she slapped him and grabbed her heels and went quickly off the boat. She did yell one thing loudly on the way out, being sure everyone heard it. It had to do with size and the medical oriented here might argue against using the term she meant, but everyone understood.

Now, when it comes to the use of the radio, I share strong feelings, as it can interfere with important duties by those who might just save a life.

Wifey B, I agree with almost everything you said, except I still take exception with you saying port and starboard always means left and right side of the boat. That's true as long as you are facing the bow. As an example, car mechanics will often clarify left and right by asking the owner if they mean driver or passenger side of the car when they are reporting a problem. A mechanic is often under the hood facing the rear of the car, so it's good to clarify when a driver complains about something like "I hear a funny sound coming from the right front wheel." Driver and passenger side, like port and starboard, do not change depending on which way you are facing, while right vs. left can be ambiguous. I don't care if you call a line a rope, but it's helpful to know the difference between a sheet, halyard, reefing lines, furling lines, spring lines, etc, etc. That's not being pompous, just being more accurate, like if you ask someone to hand you a tool. Best to be as specific as possible.

 

[backinblue]

My boat's head has a bathtub. So maybe I do have a bathroom after all?

My home has a half-bath, but does not have half a bathtub in it! lol

 

[ksanders]

Sea Faring has a long and important history, and many of the nautical terms were developed hundreds of years ago.

I for one like that history, and am happy to adopt the terminology.


I think it would behoove folks to look up the historical significance of our terminology. It is very interesting!

 

[Art]

Glossary of Nautical Terms

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_nautical_terms

And, yes... I donate to, i.e., help support Wikipedia

 

[backinblue]

Damn Art, that's a lot of terms, but thanks!

 

[backinblue]

Here's some more fun, only some are nautical related.

https://www.boredpanda.com/origins-...oogle&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic

 

[Art]

Here's some more fun, only some are nautical related.

https://www.boredpanda.com/origins-...oogle&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic

Deleted

 

[Art]

Damn Art, that's a lot of terms, but thanks!

That list will make landlubbers' eyes roll backward! :lol:

 

[grahamdouglass]

My sailing instructor would not be amused

My sailing instructor said there is ..." NO ROPE on a boat...", there may be sheets, lines, tackle, downhauls, travelers, halyards and preventers, but no ropes.

 

[dannc]

My sailing instructor said there is ..." NO ROPE on a boat...", there may be sheets, lines, tackle, downhauls, travelers, halyards and preventers, but no ropes.

Rope is on a sailboat. A rope that is not in use is, well, a rope. Once a rope is in service, it has a specific name.

I am looking at a bunch of rope at the moment. They are the same short, lengths of rope we practiced knot tying in our ASA classes. We called it rope in the class. Maybe there is a nautical term for knot tying practice rope? There really should be! The term used as one starts to learn knot tying might be The Frustration, to be family friendly.

Later,
Dan

 

[Jeff F]

My sailing instructor said there is ..." NO ROPE on a boat...", there may be sheets, lines, tackle, downhauls, travelers, halyards and preventers, but no ropes.

I got that hammered in on day 1 of junior sailing lessons. I was 11 years old and had never set foot in a sailboat, and this was one of the first things I heard from the instructor.

 

[psneeld]

Rope is on a sailboat. A rope that is not in use is, well, a rope. Once a rope is in service, it has a specific name.

I am looking at a bunch of rope at the moment. They are the same short, lengths of rope we practiced knot tying in our ASA classes. We called it rope in the class. Maybe there is a nautical term for knot tying practice rope? There really should be! The term used as one starts to learn knot tying might be The Frustration, to be family friendly.

Later,
Dan

Only difference I have heard is.... rope is line that doesn't have an assigned job.

Like when it's still in a bulk spool or box. The Bos'n locker on a ship is full of rope.... waiting for a job.

After it is designated, like a tow line or a dock line, etc..etc.... that's what they are....even when not in use.

 

[AlaskaProf]

Precise language only works if the people who are using it know the language and all the definitions.

Oh yeah. My favorite is the guy...guys, who correct you: "line"everytime you say "rope".


That cordage lying on the deck is a rope until you put it to use then it becomes a painter, a rode, a halyard, sheet or a fall...sometimes even a "line".


EDIT: oop, I see psneeld got there ahead of me.