Reducing roll while anchored or moored.

[Lollygag1]

Ok I read this with interest but could not blow through the entire string. I would like a solution that I could hang from the mid cleat which would reduce some of the roll that we encounter from wakes etc. Do I get the red cones or the Magma. Note I while i understand the arm for the Magma is best I am wondering if I could get away w/o it.

 

[rslifkin]

Ok I read this with interest but could not blow through the entire string. I would like a solution that I could hang from the mid cleat which would reduce some of the roll that we encounter from wakes etc. Do I get the red cones or the Magma. Note I while i understand the arm for the Magma is best I am wondering if I could get away w/o it.

I've found the cones to make a noticeable difference, provided you have enough weight under them (in my case, 4 cones per side and about 15 lbs, plus a couple of relief holes drilled in the upper part of the cones). Low stretch line helps performance as well. They're not a magic bullet and the plates would probably be a bit more effective, but without added leverage from poles, I'm not sure how big the difference is.

 

[Shrew]

I believe I gave my reasoning in post #24 BB. That’s how I like to roll. We all have decisions to make in regards to how our boating affects the environment. Your boat burns about 100 gph if I remember correctly so your viewpoint toward hydrocarbon consumption is not surprising to me. Cheers mate.

I have to agree, I wouldn't be interested in a solution that requires the genny be run almost constantly.

As mentioned in post #115 and #116, we have run a spring line from the anchor rode to the midship cleat and adjusted the line to yaw the boat at an angle that is more comfortable.

One of the places we anchor parallels an unmarked channel favored by small recreational fishing boats. They run on plane right past the anchorage. If the wind is out of the east or the west, then we take the wake on the beam. Springing the anchor can help reduce the roll.

 

[AusCan]

Ok I read this with interest but could not blow through the entire string. I would like a solution that I could hang from the mid cleat which would reduce some of the roll that we encounter from wakes etc. Do I get the red cones or the Magma. Note I while i understand the arm for the Magma is best I am wondering if I could get away w/o it.

With either, an extended arm makes all the difference.
The arm doubles the distance from the centreline of an average boat. The effectiveness more than doubles. This is because the initial roll movement tightens up the slack in the rope before it starts working to reduce the roll.
With the arm, the Magma plates (or cones) start working earlier and with create more resistance because the movement is greater.

I lost my arm extension for my magma overboard recently, and have had to hang off the cleat. Sure - it does provide a small improvement in roll reduction, but I would estimate the extension gives 3-4 times the effectiveness.

I'm planning to fabricate my own extension arm which will be 3-4 metres (10-12 feet) long to replace the Magma arm.

 

[rslifkin]

This is because the initial roll movement tightens up the slack in the rope before it starts working to reduce the roll.

This is where I found the less stretchy line to help. The cones started moving sooner with boat motion, making them more effective.

 

[Caballero II]

Flop Stopper

Ok I read this with interest but could not blow through the entire string. I would like a solution that I could hang from the mid cleat which would reduce some of the roll that we encounter from wakes etc. Do I get the red cones or the Magma. Note I while i understand the arm for the Magma is best I am wondering if I could get away w/o it.

You might look at the Flop Stopper. They breakdown for storage, have a large surface area, and by all accounts are more effective than the cones. On my GB 36 I rig one off the boom and one over the other side mid-ship cleat.

 

[Lollygag1]

Was trying to avoid paying $850.

 

[Caballero II]

Was trying to avoid paying $850.

To be clear, that would be the price for two. And, I understand trying to avoid the expense. But I bet you won't care about that so much once you have tried them, compared to the cones.

Also, I have no affiliation with them whatsoever.

 

[Lollygag1]

I believe the Flop Stopper is $850 for one.

 

[Sealife]

Divide the hours of comfort over ownership. Probably doesn’t come out to much, and I mean total ownership to include using the boat.

 

[Simi 60]

I have been thinking that we needed them and fish stabilizers for years but even with me finally having access to a shed and gear to make them at material cost, after our last trip of 6mths and 2000nm decided it wasn't worth the effort or money for us.

Having a king size bed, if it got rolly we slept across the bed vs fore and aft - bear in mind out bed is on the top level so accentuated roll up high.
We had to do this once in 6 mths for 4 nights.

On passage we simply changed course and or increased revs - sure, more fuel burnt but the cost of flopper stoppers and fish buys several thousands of miles of off course miles.

Most important was patience - being retired there is no need to do miles in shitty weather so wait for a better window.

 

[Caballero II]

I believe the Flop Stopper is $850 for one.

Wow, you are right. He has learned to charge real boat dollars. I think I literally paid about 1/2 that some years ago. Nonetheless, they are robust and I have never broken a thing on my pair in the years that I have had them. At the current price, I might consider buying one at a time.

 

[Lollygag1]

Understood, I don't like to go cheap but also don't want to spend more than needed. Having also just bought a house and done a top to bottom rehab I am just looking at cashflow.

 

[mvweebles]

See the yellow plate in the picture in Dashew's link. He compares to Magma product, and he's favorably impressed. These yellow ones were made by a guy in San Diego as I recall - I have a pair. I understand they are long out of production.

https://setsail.com/magma-flopper-stopper-test/

A friend is considering making something similar to the yellow one using expanded metal mesh with a frame.

Peter

 

[markbarendt]

I have been thinking that we needed them and fish stabilizers for years but even with me finally having access to a shed and gear to make them at material cost, after our last trip of 6mths and 2000nm decided it wasn't worth the effort or money for us.

Having a king size bed, if it got rolly we slept across the bed vs fore and aft - bear in mind out bed is on the top level so accentuated roll up high.
We had to do this once in 6 mths for 4 nights.

On passage we simply changed course and or increased revs - sure, more fuel burnt but the cost of flopper stoppers and fish buys several thousands of miles of off course miles.

Most important was patience - being retired there is no need to do miles in shitty weather so wait for a better window.

I second your thoughts.

Flop stoppers were budgeted in when we bought our boat last fall. Whether we buy them or not will depend on getting some real world experience like you.

 

[Caballero II]

Over a year ago, there was considerable discussion about using "rolling chocks," which are basically longitudinal "fins" on a hull. A good discussion here, esp. the link to an article: https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/bilge-keels-43050.html


Despite the generally favorable comments regarding them, I'm at a loss why most later discussions about boat stabilization don't include them. It seems people prefer much more expensive and/or troublesome products to use. I've been reading a lot about power boating. Flopper-stoppers seem a big hassle to deploy and retrieve in some videos I've seen, that is if you're using them underway, and I don't understand using them solely at anchor.


Powered stabilizers and gyros are far too expensive and troublesome imo. Why not install or spec out rolling chocks for your boat, whether an addition or in a build? Seems to me the cheapest, best, and most effective way to stabilize your boat, either at anchor, or underway.

I've got to disagree with this comment that flopperstoppers are a big hassle to deploy and retrieve. Mine are pretty easy for me solo, or me and my wife to deploy, then go inside and have a cocktail in welcomed stable bliss. I can retrieve alone in the morning while she's making coffee (easier with an extra light line to pull up by a corner and dump the pressure, but really not essential), and then just stack them on the deck until the next anchorage or to go home. Hose off there, dry over night, disassemble and store. Not really very hard.

 

[Njlarry]

You might look at the Flop Stopper. They breakdown for storage, have a large surface area, and by all accounts are more effective than the cones. On my GB 36 I rig one off the boom and one over the other side mid-ship cleat.

Sounds like you have a great lab experiment set up, boom vs cleat. Do you notice much difference? Ideal boom lenght?

 

[markbarendt]

I've got to disagree with this comment that flopperstoppers are a big hassle to deploy and retrieve. Mine are pretty easy for me solo, or me and my wife to deploy, then go inside and have a cocktail in welcomed stable bliss. I can retrieve alone in the morning while she's making coffee (easier with an extra light line to pull up by a corner and dump the pressure, but really not essential), and then just stack them on the deck until the next anchorage or to go home. Hose off there, dry over night, disassemble and store. Not really very hard.

Sounds like you have a great lab experiment set up, boom vs cleat. Do you notice much difference? Ideal boom lenght?

Yes, enquiring minds want to know.

I don't have a boom at this point so wondering...

 

[AusCan]

With a boom, the longer it it is the better it works.
The magma flopper stoppers are easy to deploy. The only problem I had was keeping the boom at the correct angle. In a rough anchorage, it often worked it way upward until it was nearly vertical. The cleats I have for the fore and aft tie-offs are only slightly below the main connection point for the boom. They really need to be lower to keep the boom at a consistent angle. Either that or the boom connection point needs to be higher.

Most boats would have a similar issue unless you can mount the boom above deck level.

 

[Shrew]

Wow, you are right. He has learned to charge real boat dollars. I think I literally paid about 1/2 that some years ago. Nonetheless, they are robust and I have never broken a thing on my pair in the years that I have had them. At the current price, I might consider buying one at a time.

If I recall the original 'flopper-stopper' was an independent start-up. There now appear to be two products using the name "FLopper Stopper"...

Magma, as in the marine grill manufacturer.

Forespar, as in the gear manufacturer.

Neither company has historically been sheepish in regards charging a premium for their products.

 

[Shrew]

If I recall the original 'flopper-stopper' was an independent start-up. There now appear to be two products using the name "FLopper Stopper"...

Magma, as in the marine grill manufacturer.

Forespar, as in the gear manufacturer.

Neither company has historically been sheepish in regards charging a premium for their products.

Correction, I did a search on 'Flopper Stopper" and both products were returned. Magma is actually calling theirs the "Rock and Roll Stabilizer". So it looks like the Flopper Stopper inventor sold to Forespar, which I suspect is where the price 'correction' occurred.

 

[Caballero II]

GB 36 FlopStopper Rig

Sounds like you have a great lab experiment set up, boom vs cleat. Do you notice much difference? Ideal boom lenght?

I don't it's critical about the boom height, as long as the device is well submerged. Our boom can swing out laterally out of our way over our heads when walking the side deck. I guy it to the mid-ship and stern cleat through the hawse holes. It is supported by the topping lift that runs to the top of the mast. When launch, the device is about 6-8 feet underwater so you can easily see the "doors" open and shut.

I've never done a comparison of boom deployed vs. hull deployed because I am always going for as little roll as possible, so I always deploy the boom first. I then might deploy the second over the other side if desperate for more roll damping.

I'd really like two poles (one on each side) which are independent of the boom. That way I could keep the boom hoist free for things like launching dinghy or flying a stay sail. I see Forespar makes them and offers them with their own version of a flop stopper. I am going to research to see if that might work.

 

[Caballero II]

Boom Height

With a boom, the longer it it is the better it works.
The magma flopper stoppers are easy to deploy. The only problem I had was keeping the boom at the correct angle. In a rough anchorage, it often worked it way upward until it was nearly vertical. The cleats I have for the fore and aft tie-offs are only slightly below the main connection point for the boom. They really need to be lower to keep the boom at a consistent angle. Either that or the boom connection point needs to be higher.

Most boats would have a similar issue unless you can mount the boom above deck level.

The mast and boom setup on the Classic GB 36 is high enough so there isn''t any interference on deck and it provides enough up and down angle on the fore and aft guys that the boom does not lift and is quite stable. I am quite happy with the set up.

 

[mvweebles]

Below is a picture of the magna product and a plate identical to mine that is no longer made. I have booms stored along the cabin sides that I can deploy in about 10-15 mins with pre-rigged lines to my mast (will now be to my bard top frame).

My booms are way too massive - 4 inch diameter spinnaker poles. Heavy and too long. Must be 14 feet each. I am redesigning the boom fittings to be a bit more elegant and will go with 10 feet of schedule 40 aluminum pipe. Will give almost 30 feet between the tips of booms which will be plenty.

Peter

 

[Caballero II]

So, Weebles, you're on the wrong coast to help me, I think. I found out today that Forespar (in southern California) stopped making their 3" and 3 1/2" x 11 foot booms for their flopperstoppers because they just couldn't drum up enough business to make them pay for themselves (and they were expensive). I get Forespar's business problem, but they were a little snappish on the phone with me about this. I will try to avoid them in the future. I would have been willing to pay what they cost.

Too bad, because it seems like a pretty simple physics and engineering problem to me. I suppose I'm going to have to fabricate them somehow, but I haven't yet found anyone on the left coast with the experience and willingness to build them. Somebody's got to have the experience to fabricate or source the fittings it would take to mount the booms on the mast or hull (I would prefer booms attached to the mast) to support a flopper-stopper device, right??!!!

 

[markbarendt]

So, Weebles, you're on the wrong coast to help me, I think. I found out today that Forespar (in southern California) stopped making their 3" and 3 1/2" x 11 foot booms for their flopperstoppers because they just couldn't drum up enough business to make them pay for themselves (and they were expensive). I get Forespar's business problem, but they were a little snappish on the phone with me about this. I will try to avoid them in the future. I would have been willing to pay what they cost.

Too bad, because it seems like a pretty simple physics and engineering problem to me. I suppose I'm going to have to fabricate them somehow, but I haven't yet found anyone on the left coast with the experience and willingness to build them. Somebody's got to have the experience to fabricate or source the fittings it would take to mount the booms on the mast or hull (I would prefer booms attached to the mast) to support a flopper-stopper device, right??!!!

Head for a Chandlery that sells used parts, look for an old spinnaker pole... then use a little imagination.

 

[mvweebles]

Mounting on mast means poles must be longer. If your GB36 has a beam of. 12 feet, the first 6 feet of pole gets you to the gunwale. Similar issue with using a boom. Plus it occupies your boom from use for dinghy davit if needed.

Problem I found with a spinnaker pole is they are much larger than needed. The fittings, while workable, are not ideal - they are designed to be supported at a mid point with the. Free end is a fairlead vs a topping lift and attachment. A whisker pole is a bit closer and are often telescopic, which could be handy.

A lot depends on how much use you plan for. If it's rare, inconvenient and suboptimal is acceptable.

Peter

 

[offshoreskiff]

re:flopper stoppers

Love all the information in this thread about getting boats to not roll. It makes a huge difference in the quality of life while cruising.

A couple years ago I decided to solve this problem and came up with these louvered style frames. They worked so well I built second set with 8 louvers instead of 6 and it worked even better.

Getting them to drop fast and snap shut is the whole game. We tried one off a spinnaker pole on a 12t sailboat and realized that two hung off the midship cleats worked even better. Obviously if you can get them outboard it helps but the main thing is using them in a pair so the counteract each other.

We use them during drift fishing and will even troll them up to 2 kts when fishing for halibut. The cost associated with these is trivial when compared to the comfort they provide.