Redoing teak,epoxy, urethane, paint?

[SteveandZoila]

OK, our 2nd trawler has some teak a round the cockpit and cockpit floor. after cruising for a year we need to fix our teak. We have incredible interior teak, but exterior teak cuts into happy hour! 1st question, the pic of my shower floor, its teak and covered insome sort of resin, looks perfect. Boat is 2004. What coating system did they use? Looks like the transom of a new Grand Banks! Would love to know system. OK, Plan A, strip varnish, fill defects, epoxy teak, White urethane finish. head to Bahamas in Oct. The floor of cockpit; plan A , refinish in varnish, Plan B refinish in epoxy and cover with fake gray teak. OK I just heard you, sand floor and let it go grey!!
Thoughts?

 

[tiltrider1]

There are a lot of opinions on exterior finishes. Varnish is my least favorite. Cetol lasts longer but I’ve never liked the color. Epoxy has always been to difficult for me to get a good finish from. I am now experimenting with Awlwood which is a urethane based product. I like the color and I can get it glass smooth. You can lay down. Multiple coats in one day. Will it last? Don’t know, ask me in 7 years. I have heard good things about Bristol but I have never worked with it.

 

[Comodave]

We are painting all of the exterior teak with Brightside polyurethane. I am tired of varnishing teak. An we like the way it looks.

 

[Rufus]

I'm going with clear Interlux Perfection Plus (2-part clear urethane) directly over the stripped and sanded varnish. It gets good reviews as a long lasting, UV resistant product. I'm trying it in lieu of the Bristol that I removed last Spring prior to winter storage. (Used a heat gun and scraper...see photo).

Not sure if epoxy with a white urethane protectant for UV would be a whole lot longer lasting. I'd think even epoxy would eventually debond from the teak even if UV doesn't get to it. Anyway, white Interlux Perfection (2-part urethane) is tough stuff if you go that route. I used it on the diamond non-skid on the bow. One caution is that the gloss is near blinding, so be careful if you want it to match the gelcoat on an older boat....might need to flatten it very slightly. And that adds expense as I believe you have to purchase another 2-part quart kit of flattener. Maybe Awlgrip or one of the others.

The teak on our cockpit floor has always been bare gray, and I have no intention to coat it with anything. I'd strip it and leave it if you can get the current coating completely removed for an even look.

 

[FF]

For least time spent , slather on a couple of coats of any varnish , then paint.

EZ for next owner to get to unfilled surface

If do you take the time to sand and varnish , call the sail maker and have covers fitted over the bright work.

 

[FoxtrotCharlie]

For least time spent , slather on a couple of coats of any varnish , then paint.

EZ for next owner to get to unfilled surface

If do you take the time to sand and varnish , call the sail maker and have covers fitted over the bright work.

I’ve had good luck with Pettit Flagship Varnish. Very high UV protection. But the only exterior/uncovered teak on our boat is handrails. Two years and they look great- seven coats[emoji106]

 

[rslifkin]

I just stripped the Cetol off my pulpit, sanded and gave it 6 coats of Interlux Perfection Plus. Before and after photos included below. I did get some tiny bubbles in the finish, which I mostly got rid of by sanding lightly after the 3rd and 5th coats, but I got some more in the final coat, possibly due to it being a little too cold when I applied the stuff. In the end, I decided to call it good enough, as the bubbles are only visible from just the right angle.

Time will tell how it holds up (hopefully better than the few years Cetol is good for), but out of the gate, it looks great. The finish is completely clear, so the color ends up being just a richer version of what the teak started as. It's extremely glossy, to the point where when over-coating it's hard to see where your wet edge is unless you sanded first. The finish has lots of depth to the look too.

Color-wise, my teak had been bleached before the Cetol went on there (not sure off hand if it was natural teak or clear color). Before the Perfection Plus went on, I just sanded, wiped with acetone to remove any surface oils and called it good. No bleaching or anything, just the natural color after sanding.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

Varnishing, or poly or cetol or any clear covering over exterior teak is a never ending, thankless proposition. Inside teak is a different story though, except for the shower floor you show. I have no advice on the shower sole but the remainder of the inside teak will respond very nicely to a good polyurathane.

For the exterior.. I am painting all mine this year. Yep, plain white paint on the trim, handrail and toerail. The deck will be either painted a beige or tan, right over the teak unless I get really ambitious and strip the teak off like I did on the flybridge.

Grey, aged teak looks terrible, IMHO.

pete

 

[rslifkin]

Speaking of interior teak, my galley and head floors (teak parquet) are done in Cetol natural teak, which has held up very well. The rest of my interior teak is just oiled, also low maintenance after the first few applications.

For the exterior teak, my choice of Perfection Plus was based on liking the look of teak (and not wanting to paint it) combined with it holding up very well in the Practical Sailor testing. Cetol was usually good for a few years before the coating would start to fail or look bad, so I'm hoping that enough coats of Perfection Plus (applied with all hardware removed from the teak so all holes, edges, etc. could be sealed against moisture) will get me a solid 5 years before I have to touch it again. I don't have a ton of exterior teak anyway, so having to re-do a couple of the pieces every couple of years isn't a big deal.

 

[DDW]

If you keep your boat in Nashville and likely in a covered slip, almost anything will hold up for a long time. In Florida or southern California nothing will hold up for a long time. Traditional varnish needs periodic recoating but it is easy to do. PU finishes do not need periodic recoating, but when they do fail (and they will), it is a lot of work to remove. These are the reasons you will find so many different opinions on what is best.

 

[Shrew]

I just did this project. Previous owner used a water-based polyurethane that the teak oils lifted and peeled horribly.

Stripped and sanded all the teak down to 220.

wiped teak down with acetone

West Systems epoxy with clear hardener (3 coats)

Petit 1015 Captains Varnish. If you want a clear varnish then Petit 2067 Captains Clear Varnish. (4 coats)

The epoxy does a great job of filling the voids and grain.

 

[Scottwb96]

Let me start by saying, I have never varnished anything before in my life. Got A LOT of opinions and great info from here. I landed on Epifanes Clear Varnish.
1. stripped everything (THAT SUCKED) even with a heat gun.
2. Sanded - A LOT! ! ! ! 120 - 180 - 220 - (400 in between coats)
3. Did a couple coats at 50% diluted
4. Did a couple coats at 25% diluted
5. Currently at 6 coats now w/ 2 coats at 5% diluted
6. Still have 2-3 more coats to go...

But, for my first attemp and where my rails started, I am over the moon happy with how it turned out (so far)...

 

[RonR]

No matter what its a lot of work.. just depends on the final product you want, and how much work you want to do in the future. I love teak, I don't mind the work at this point in my life.

I stripped it down with a heat gun, sanded, 5 coats of Interlux Perfection plus 2 part. And 4 coats of Interlux Compass clear so that it matches everything else I am redoing.

Its not perfect as I ran out of time to mount it before the boat went back in the water. But for this year it will do.

 

[RonR]

Let me start by saying, I have never varnished anything before in my life. Got A LOT of opinions and great info from here. I landed on Epifanes Clear Varnish.
1. stripped everything (THAT SUCKED) even with a heat gun.
2. Sanded - A LOT! ! ! ! 120 - 180 - 220 - (400 in between coats)
3. Did a couple coats at 50% diluted
4. Did a couple coats at 25% diluted
5. Currently at 6 coats now w/ 2 coats at 5% diluted
6. Still have 2-3 more coats to go...

But, for my first attemp and where my rails started, I am over the moon happy with how it turned out (so far)...

Beautified work! I am planning on doing ours next!

 

[SteveandZoila]

TF guys are the greatest! So many real ideas. Thanks again. I will look up these products. Rufus cockpit looks excitably like mine, The OA must have been built in same yard as Heritage East. Rufus, you have convinced to let the cockpit floor go grey. Scottwb96, You have convinced me to toally strip and coat with clear. No paint, besides my wife like your pics! Last Question; both shower soles are original and are 14yr old and look perfect. How did they do that? Thanks guys for are your input. Steve

 

[rslifkin]

Last Question; both shower soles are original and are 14yr old and look perfect. How did they do that? Thanks guys for are your input. Steve

Being out of the sun helps a ton with coating longevity. Less exposure to weather helps too.

 

[mvweebles]

I've had it with brightwork. And that was in San Francisco vs Florida, her ultimate home . Opted to have the caprails glassed, fared, and LPUd

Anyone want a set of badger hair brushes? I don't need them anymore.

 

[stiggy]

Great thread. Lots of good info.

 

[Rufus]

TF guys are the greatest! So many real ideas. Thanks again. I will look up these products. Rufus cockpit looks excitably like mine, The OA must have been built in same yard as Heritage East. Rufus, you have convinced to let the cockpit floor go grey. Scottwb96, You have convinced me to toally strip and coat with clear. No paint, besides my wife like your pics! Last Question; both shower soles are original and are 14yr old and look perfect. How did they do that? Thanks guys for are your input. Steve

Suggest you give some serious thought to what type of clear you select. Scottwb96 used varnish (and Epiphanes is the best looking of them all in my view, because they use a tung oil base). But it is a varnish, and over time, it will require more upkeep than the 2-part urethanes like the Perfection Plus and Total Boat "Envy". The Bristol that I removed last Fall was on the cap rail for ten years with one touch up in the middle. The only reason I'm not using it again is that I prefer a clear 2-part urethane to the "honey" tint in the Bristol (which gets slightly more "goldish" over time).

By the way, there are a number of other 2-part synthetic (and 2-step) varnish products. Honey teak uses a 2-step process...step one is a "color" coat, step two is a clear 2-part urethane. Awlwood uses a first step "color" coat followed by a one part urethane, which is moisture (humidity) cured (intriguing product). Again, Bristol is a two part urethane that has a honey colored pigment. (Read the specs and application procedures).

Varnish versus urethanes depends if you want hands off for a few years (minimum). I will say that the Bristol did not go on as slick as the Epiphanes varnish depicted above. It has excellent gloss, but it's not mirror flat.

 

[kchace]

TF guys are the greatest! So many real ideas. Thanks again. I will look up these products. Rufus cockpit looks excitably like mine, The OA must have been built in same yard as Heritage East. Rufus, you have convinced to let the cockpit floor go grey. Scottwb96, You have convinced me to toally strip and coat with clear. No paint, besides my wife like your pics! Last Question; both shower soles are original and are 14yr old and look perfect. How did they do that? Thanks guys for are your input. Steve

Inside teak is a totally different matter. I have a rainforest of teak inside my boat including 2 bathroom grills like you showed and they are perfect too, even after 33 years. Usually indoor teak (that HAS a clear finish) is some type of INTERIOR polyurethane. It holds up far longer than anything outdoors.

Ken

 

[Comodave]

My boat is 33 years old also and the interior teak looks great, including the teak shower grates.

 

[Flatswing]

I’m with the Epiphanes crowd. I hired the local varnish guru (we have dozens of Hinckleys etc. in our marina) for an hour for teaching purposes before I started stripping & revarnishing my 49 RPH. 3 tips I learned: you have to remove all the old caulk in those seams and, if the seams are butt joints, where varnish starts peeling, cut out the joint about 1/8” either side, slightly round edges then varnish into the seams to get a good seal. After wood is stripped with heat gun & scrapers, sanding start with 40 grit and a block by hand then 80,150. Start sealer coats. Wet sand with a hose as soon as the grain is reasonably filled - much faster, can start early when dew is on the wood or even in the rain, boat stays clean. Fill butt joints between tape lines with caulk after final (10th) coat. The varnish is sealing the end grain, the caulk is just a filler in this application that allows the 2 pieces to expand and contract.
Unfortunately, as everyone has attested, recoating is needed every 6-12 mos. here in the South. The trick is to recoat, before you see any peeling or cracking. The taping is tiresome but pretty easy to wet sand with 400 & add another coat once or twice a year.

Re: teak grates, decks, steps & swim platforms. I must confess to be mystified as to why they need to be coated ( but then I am already busy with lots if brightwork). Impossible to maintain, slippery when finished. I leave mine au naturel. Only treatment is a soft brush and soap & water occasionally (brush across not with the grain to prevent ridging).

 

[TMWilsoniv]

Um... Heat guns & scrapers? Nope.

Gelled Methylene chloride (aka Zip Strip) applied with a chip brush, a coffee break, and then a putty knife PULLED (not pushed) with the grain. Repeat as necessary.

 

[Rufus]

.... I learned: you have to remove all the old caulk in those seams and, if the seams are butt joints, where varnish starts peeling, cut out the joint about 1/8” either side, slightly round edges then varnish into the seams to get a good seal.

....Fill butt joints between tape lines with caulk after final (10th) coat. The varnish is sealing the end grain, the caulk is just a filler in this application that allows the 2 pieces to expand and contract.

Thanks for this pointer in particular. I did the first step when refinishing with Bristol over a decade ago. But I applied the caulk into the groove before applying the "varnish". Duh. Sure enough it lifted over the caulk a few years later, thereby necessitating a local repair. This time I'll follow your second point.

 

[Capitaine R]

I just did this project. Previous owner used a water-based polyurethane that the teak oils lifted and peeled horribly.

Stripped and sanded all the teak down to 220.

wiped teak down with acetone

West Systems epoxy with clear hardener (3 coats)

Petit 1015 Captains Varnish. If you want a clear varnish then Petit 2067 Captains Clear Varnish. (4 coats)

The epoxy does a great job of filling the voids and grain.

I also used this method with the exception of using 2 coats of 2015 and top coat of 1015. 2015 for UV protection and 1015 for luster.

 

[Sangraal]

I have had good success with teak using a sealing epoxy first. On the second coat of epoxy before it trips start varnishing. I have done that with the Bristol finish and also with varnish. Both seem to adhere well. Bristol builds quickly, sand easily and refinished easily but where it does fail then will need stripping back to wood. Smells bad too before tripping. Most varnish work needs re coating here in the south annually. We had the toerails painted with Awlgrip and no regrets. The balance of the exterior varnish is just manageable now. I approach it as a multi year project rather than a one and done.

 

[Nomad Willy]

I use a heavy base of oil on bare teal. I just keep applying oil (mostly Linseed Oil and turpentine) until I can’t drive any more into the wood. Then I wipe all the excess off that will come off w a rag w a little turpentine.
Then after 2 or 3 days in warm and dry weather I apply full strength high oil spar varnish. Thin only 5% or so to get good brushing consistency. I usually put on 5-6 coats as this kind of varnish is high build. Probably 10 times or more build as the water based varnish’s.

Get the book “Brightwork” by Rebecca Wittman for time of day, humidity, brushes ect ect.

 

[Aft Deck Capt]

It's a lot of work but I've been satisfied with the varnish over epoxy method. Currently using Captains Flagship and get 18-24 months between re-coats under covered moorage. I've thought of doing a test with one of the rail gates using automotive urethane clear to test for adhesion/chemical reaction with the epoxy under coat. Seems like it would hold up a lot longer against the UV.

 

[catalinajack]

Pete, am doing the same but am also doing the deckhousecand the decks. No varnish for me. I'd rather be out driving the boat rather than sanding and varnishing for endless hours only to watch it slowly deteriorate.

Varnishing, or poly or cetol or any clear covering over exterior teak is a never ending, thankless proposition. Inside teak is a different story though, except for the shower floor you show. I have no advice on the shower sole but the remainder of the inside teak will respond very nicely to a good polyurathane.

For the exterior.. I am painting all mine this year. Yep, plain white paint on the trim, handrail and toerail. The deck will be either painted a beige or tan, right over the teak unless I get really ambitious and strip the teak off like I did on the flybridge.

Grey, aged teak looks terrible, IMHO.

pete

 

[rslifkin]

It's a lot of work but I've been satisfied with the varnish over epoxy method. Currently using Captains Flagship and get 18-24 months between re-coats under covered moorage. I've thought of doing a test with one of the rail gates using automotive urethane clear to test for adhesion/chemical reaction with the epoxy under coat. Seems like it would hold up a lot longer against the UV.

I know the 2 part polyurethane varnishes work over epoxy, so I'd expect other urethanes would as well.

In my mind, the goal is to find a coating that looks good, even if it's a lot of work. But if it continues to look good for 5+ years instead of 1 or 2, that's the key. Stripping and re-doing some teak after 5 years isn't a big deal, but having to sand and re-coat it every year to keep it looking good gets annoying.

I've got a teak step with a small crack in the wood that's always had issues with coatings failing around the crack. When I get to re-doing that step, I'm going to do the epoxy base method with the hope of being able to fill / seal the crack to keep moisture from getting in under the coating. It'll probably be epoxy with Perfection Plus over it.