Redoing teak,epoxy, urethane, paint?

[Nomad Willy]

rslifkin,
When you use varnish do you use a high oil varnish? I use the high oil for flexibility over the cracks. When yo begin applying straight oil first on the cracks may help. I’ve not ever done that though. I’ve been getting 3 years w the method in post #27 above in covered moorage.

 

[rslifkin]

rslifkin,
When you use varnish do you use a high oil varnish? I use the high oil for flexibility over the cracks. When yo begin applying straight oil first on the cracks may help. I’ve not ever done that though. I’ve been getting 3 years w the method in post #27 above in covered moorage.

I haven't personally refinished that step yet, it was last done before the boat became mine. It's currently got Cetol on it and the failure mode there has never been flexing / cracking related (the wood is well supported underneath), but moisture has always found a way in and eventually causes the finish to start to bubble / lift and fail. If I can fill the crack somewhat and get it all sealed up well, that should hopefully keep the finish from failing in the same way again.

 

[Rufus]

I'm a little uncomfortable with epoxy as a sealer coat as my experience on a truck that I finished a while back is that the epoxy base coat is a monster problem to remove. I ended up having truck media blasted to get it off. I know that 2 part urethanes (Bristol in my case) are easy to scrape away with a little heat.

 

[Shrew]

I'm a little uncomfortable with epoxy as a sealer coat as my experience on a truck that I finished a while back is that the epoxy base coat is a monster problem to remove. I ended up having truck media blasted to get it off. I know that 2 part urethanes (Bristol in my case) are easy to scrape away with a little heat.

Why did the epoxy need to be removed?

 

[Rufus]

Why did the epoxy need to be removed?

The truck sat out in the Texas sun (like a boat). The top protective coat of paint deteriorated, and when that happened the DP90 epoxy base went further south in a hurry. It got powdery and then surface rust started peeking through. Paint stripper was hopeless on even the deteriorated epoxy, and sanding nearly so. So, the moral of the story is that you better not let a top UV coating get away from you because the epoxy won't be far behind. And that effectively means you're right back in the recurring varnish maintenance business. IMO, better to use a 2-part urethane that lasts at least several years, and be able to remove it comparatively easy. It took me about three hours to strip the cap rail. I figure another hour to sand it prior to recoating with Perfection Plus. Then good to go for another 5-10 years if my experience with Bristol is an indicator.

 

[tiltrider1]

It would appear that Awlwood, Bristol and Perfection Plus are preferred by those who want long life. Epiphanies and Captians by those who either want perfection or pay some one else to maintain it annually. Every now and then some one prefers Cetol but I don’t know why.

 

[rslifkin]

Every now and then some one prefers Cetol but I don’t know why.

My father originally went to Cetol because it was lower maintenance than varnish, lasted fairly well, and cost half of any of the 2 part stuff (that he had no experience with). The downside was that especially before some of their newer options (like the natural teak version) came out, it just didn't look all that great. Better than peeling, under-maintained varnish or letting it go grey because oiling every month got tiring though.

 

[SteveandZoila]

Wow, lots of experience here on TF
I have also also searched YouTube for methods for preserving teak outdoors. In different uses I have used polyesters, epoxy's, urethanes, fillers, water base poly on maple, car finishes back in the 70's. Even Sears fiberglass resin on my 1st 8' Popular Mechanics plywood hydroplane. We have been fighting the weather and water forever. I have a flat roof house, don't ask.
OK, bear with me, got some ideals; (and I know teak is an oily and flexible material)
If you urethane or epoxy impregnated a piece of wood to make if like Formica, work you now coat it with linseed oil? I would not. So there must be the state of the art out there with all these new materials.
As Aft Deck Capt mention, automotive urethane. May be cheaper than “marine” grade products. Maybe 100% urethane, nothing else? Maybe too thin and epoxy better for soaking in and filling in.
Automotive Urethane 2k means 2 part. Much different that the old oil base urethane of past. BUT then again might be flexible to work, any thoughts? I know the old stuff yellowed, but somebody must have UV additives by now? I use the water base on floors, yes I have too much wood in my life, most at home little on new boat.
Again, you TF guys are the greatest. Steve

 

[Nomad Willy]

I haven't personally refinished that step yet, it was last done before the boat became mine. It's currently got Cetol on it and the failure mode there has never been flexing / cracking related (the wood is well supported underneath), but moisture has always found a way in and eventually causes the finish to start to bubble / lift and fail. If I can fill the crack somewhat and get it all sealed up well, that should hopefully keep the finish from failing in the same way again.

Sure that is the problem. Water under the finish coat. It is dependent on adhesion and flexibility. If you oil wood extensively, let it dry somewhat and apply a thick coat of high oil varnish w many coats and high levels if UV protectant water won’t get under the coating unless it gets there from underneath. Kinda like an inside job.

rslifkin also wrote;
“ My father originally went to Cetol because it was lower maintenance than varnish, lasted fairly well, and cost half of any of the 2 part stuff ”

I’ve not used Cetol but seeing many examples w varying degrees of weathering I suspect it goes on thin. This is the case w many varnish substitutes as I see it. Bristol is in that category I believe. Good varnish is thick so it dosn’t take that many cotes to get that deep look. They say 10 and even 15 coats but I don’t think I’ve done 7. Usually 5. But I use high oil Spar varnish.
Re Cetol I think it needs to be re-applied relatively often.

 

[SteveandZoila]

Urethane

Just read Polyurethane is harder than Urethane. Don't think that includes 22 part types.

 

[tiltrider1]

Just read Polyurethane is harder than Urethane. Don't think that includes 22 part types.

What polyurethane and what urethane? There are so many different types of both that blanket statements like this. Are dangerous.

 

[Choices]

I redid our teak in Awlwood. Killer product. Go-to my blog, grandbankschoices and dig down for teak work.

Did exterior and interior. Will start in one week to finish small projects.

Prep is everything. If your not willing to give it your best hire it out. Start small projects first figure it out.

 

[Begorrah]

strip it down, sand it, clean with teak cleaner/bleach and then apply teak oil. have to do this once a year but don't have to sand it the 2nd year, just use teak cleaner and then teak oil. Don't have to do any masking. a lot easier than Cetol or verathane.

 

[rslifkin]

strip it down, sand it, clean with teak cleaner/bleach and then apply teak oil. have to do this once a year but don't have to sand it the 2nd year, just use teak cleaner and then teak oil. Don't have to do any masking. a lot easier than Cetol or verathane.

Depending on climate, oiling can be as frequent as a monthly chore on exterior teak. Yearly is nowhere near enough in most places.

 

[Woodeneye]

There are a lot of opinions on exterior finishes. Varnish is my least favorite. Cetol lasts longer but I’ve never liked the color. Epoxy has always been to difficult for me to get a good finish from. I am now experimenting with Awlwood which is a urethane based product. I like the color and I can get it glass smooth. You can lay down. Multiple coats in one day. Will it last? Don’t know, ask me in 7 years. I have heard good things about Bristol but I have never worked with it.

+1 for Awlwood. I’ve had it on my exterior teak for 5 years now and it is still perfect. Couldn’t be happier and the sun is harsh here in Australia.
The fact that you can get multiple coats on in a day and it lays down like glass is a game changer. Follow the instructions and you can’t go wrong.

 

[BDalt]

The touble with varnishing teak.

Varnish does not stick to teak for long because it has natural resins that block good bonding. I have used a penetrating epoxy (Smiths) to generate a bondable surface on cleaned up previously varnished teak. Varnish will bond to the epoxy for a lasting finish, as will clear epoxy resin, but the latter does have issue with UV.

 

[Marigold]

OK, our 2nd trawler has some teak a round the cockpit and cockpit floor. after cruising for a year we need to fix our teak. We have incredible interior teak, but exterior teak cuts into happy hour! 1st question, the pic of my shower floor, its teak and covered insome sort of resin, looks perfect. Boat is 2004. What coating system did they use? Looks like the transom of a new Grand Banks! Would love to know system. OK, Plan A, strip varnish, fill defects, epoxy teak, White urethane finish. head to Bahamas in Oct. The floor of cockpit; plan A , refinish in varnish, Plan B refinish in epoxy and cover with fake gray teak. OK I just heard you, sand floor and let it go grey!!
Thoughts?

Why not just use teak oil with several coats. That’s what I’m going to do. Thanks, Jack B

 

[Ruffryder]

I had my girl for 2 yrs now, got her in rough shape her teak railings hasn't been touched plus 10 yrs.

First year built it with 5 layers of Waco oil, lasted about 6 months in the PNW ?.
It is a lot of work when you don't take care of it.
Epiphanes varnish would be my first choice, build up about 6 coats, recoat every 6 month.

 

[Brooksie]

I have had good luck with Cetol Clear and the color seems nice to me. I would never recommend Perfection on wood and I don't think any professionals use it on wood either. It is just too brittle.
I have used Captains Varnish (Spar) over epoxy with good results too. But when time comes to remove it and wood down, and that time always comes, you will wish you had never used it...

 

[CaptRowlands]

Decide then follow firecyions

Any coating on wood is intended to protect the wood from degradation due to moisture and UV.

Exterior teak can handle both but you must accept grey wood and occasional cleaning.

Any good finish properly applied can protect from moisture. Paint, stain. Epoxy, varnish, all will protect from moisture.

To protect from uv the coating must filter or block the UV. Epoxy alone is prone to UV degredation. Paint is opaque (blocks) and requires few coats. Stain (cetol) is semi-opaque and needs more costs than pant but less the varnish. Varnish (filter) in s a “clear finish” requiring more coats but allows the beauty of the wood to come thru. Two part finishes are tough and require near perfect conditions for application.

Bottom line- chose your poison and follow the directions on the can.

I speak as a caretaker of boat made of teak with 30+ yrs experience. I’m a traditional guy using Epifdnes.

 

[greatpapabear]

Well, may I bring an opposite viewpoint? We far prefer natural teak. A lovely brown when birthed, turning to a graceful grey when weathered - the colour of my hair according to our four sons!

Teak is naturally a beautiful, oily wood, with a considerable life-span on a boat.

Varnish will not only stop the teak from aging gracefully, but it will add hours and hours and hours of maintenance, which, if not kept up, will make the teak look shabby, often with black spots or white blooming if the varnish was applied during a humid spell thereby sealing in damp.

Of course, if you want your teak to keep looking new, there are ways without varnish or other sealants.

On Play d'eau (our Fleming 55), we have looked after our teak for 17 years and it remains perfect. Here are our secrets:

1) When washing the teak, use a bucket and soft sponge and wipe across the grain, not with it. If very dirty, we sometime add some washing up liquid. Rinse off with a gentle hose spray.

2) No need to add a teak oil - the wood's oily enough.

3) After a hard winter, use Borocol which, after a day or so, will remove any green and black marks with no damage to the teak.

4) If we want to restore the natural brown teak colour, we use the two part Wessex Treatment. Part 1 is the cleaner. Part 2 is the renovator.

5) Allow sea water to soak into the teak. It's a natural mould killer.

Motor Boat and Yachting featured Play d'eau when we carried out a major refit in 2013 during which ew gave the decks their first Wessex Treatment in 10 years. The before and after pics can be seen in the two photos at the very bottom of the page, here.

Am I pleased we don't have varnished teak? Yes. Apart from saving hours and hours of maintenance, the natural look is so beautiful.

All the best - Piers

 

[dieck]

Teak contains oil and should not be varnished or coated at all. My boat is wooden and 51 years old and its in prime condition. For the outside, the deck is left as is and gets gray.
We only clean with salt water. railings, doors and outside panels we oil with teak oil which gives a perfect finish. Depending on the weather we have to oil 3 to 4 times per year. That takes about 1 day each time for a 50+ ft. boat.

 

[Nepidae]

In our experience, you need to remember 1 very important thing.

Teak needs to breathe.

IF you coat all sides of a piece of teak it will form 'blister' type of exhales. We did handrails and as an experiment on the underside I used a 1" piece of tape to keep an area open. The Pettit Sea Gold Satin with Cetol Clear Gloss varnish is now going on 4yrs with no deterioration. We'll touch up some gouges this yr. Toe rails were also done but since they are embedded in the hull I didn't need to mask the undersides.

This work is laborious and until you get a good coat on the wood will always need attention.

Good luck.

 

[Photoman41]

Awlwood MA

I stripped ours down to bare wood and applied Awlwood MA Clear. Looks great

 

[Brooksie]

If you are a natural, grey, uncoated, teak person. You will like Ipe as a wood. I have started making thinks from Ipe for myself and others and have had good reviews on everything I have done. It is more dense than teak, weathers evenly, does not have the hard/soft grain to be scrubbed away, machines well, and does not dull your tools like teak.

 

[Oldsarge]

Even in Wisconsin I have only ever gotten a few years out of Cetol on exterior teak and my boat has a lot of that. The interior teak which I also have a lot of I just clean and oil

 

[Rufus]

One of the issues with 2 part urethanes is that brushes are difficult to clean. For that reason, most application instructions recommend throw away brushes (foam or bristle), and foam roller covers that are compatible with epoxy.

In preparation for my upcoming application of Perfection Plus, I've been reading scores of user comments for all of the urethane products. I also called the tech lines at Jamestown and Interlux. I settled on the Redtree "Fooler" bristle brush, which is basically an amped up chip brush....twice the number of natural bristles that are anchored in epoxy. It is supposedly designed for urethanes and epoxy with a price aimed at the throw away application. I also purchased a supply of uprated foam brushes. The Wooster "Foam King" is also advertised for use with urethane and epoxy and is fairly inexpensive. It's constructed from a relatively dense foam, and has a formidable inner stiffener. I decided against foam rollers as users regularly mention disintegration of the foam. Google search these things as prices are all over the map. FWIW

(I'll follow up when the job is done).

 

[ORIF]

TF guys are the greatest! So many real ideas. Thanks again. I will look up these products. Rufus cockpit looks excitably like mine, The OA must have been built in same yard as Heritage East. Rufus, you have convinced to let the cockpit floor go grey. Scottwb96, You have convinced me to toally strip and coat with clear. No paint, besides my wife like your pics! Last Question; both shower soles are original and are 14yr old and look perfect. How did they do that? Thanks guys for are your input. Steve

Largely because your shower floor is not exposed to UV.

 

[castellah22]

strip back to bare wood , and apply 3 coats of international WOOD SKIN.our yard have just done (last year) on our Grand Banks 32. Still looks great.

 

[Marigold]

What happens when after thorough cleaning when you use just quality teak oil? Does the graying still come back? I don’t want to do varnish. Please help.