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Old 08-31-2018, 12:09 PM   #81
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Thanks for that thoughtful analysis Dan.

All I can hope is that since so many businesses are being hammered by this red tide, maybe they will complain loudly enough to get the politicians to listen to them. Or, vote the current crop of politicians out and try some new ones who might listen to actual constituents and not just big businesses and big donors.
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Old 09-01-2018, 05:26 AM   #82
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" Or, vote the current crop of politicians out and try some new ones who might listen to actual constituents and not just big businesses and big donors.

Its going to take a heck of a wall to keep the African dust from blowing into the USA.

Will Africa pay for it?
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Old 09-01-2018, 07:51 AM   #83
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Yeah OK Fred. Blame it on the dust, not things we can actually control. Smh.
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Old 09-01-2018, 08:56 AM   #84
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Here is an interesting article published yesterday in the NYT on this subject. It mostly discusses the effects on wildlife, but does quote scientists who say it is many times worse than in former years due to climate change and nutrient runoff.

See: https://nyti.ms/2wuDS82


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Old 09-02-2018, 06:39 AM   #85
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"Yeah OK Fred. Blame it on the dust, not things we can actually control."

You mean like the folks that disregard cloud cover , and solar radiation when talking about "Climate change".

Or the fact the climate has been changing for billions of years, before Adam & Eve?

Actual causality does not fit the PC dialog , which is based on expanding the dead hand of government .
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Old 09-02-2018, 09:07 AM   #86
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Who cares about the cause, if there are ways to mitigate the effects? If the ocean is rising rapidly, in a geological sense, then shouldn’t we as a society be looking for ways to respond to such a massive change, as opposed to wasting time and energy arguing about what started it?

This is why, in case of disaster at sea, they have the rescue first and hold the inquiry later. It seems we are hellbent on doing it the other way around this time.
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Old 09-02-2018, 11:06 AM   #87
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Who cares about the cause, if there are ways to mitigate the effects? If the ocean is rising rapidly, in a geological sense, then shouldn’t we as a society be looking for ways to respond to such a massive change, as opposed to wasting time and energy arguing about what started it?

This is why, in case of disaster at sea, they have the rescue first and hold the inquiry later. It seems we are hellbent on doing it the other way around this time.
Your comparison of what to do about the red tide with rescuing a disaster at sea is totally wrong. The solution to the immediate problem with a disaster at sea is totally obvious- rescue.

The solution to the red tide problem is not obvious, so understanding the cause so we can do something about those causes and prevent it from happening again is the right way to go.

Also what would you propose to do about rising sea levels that doesn't require an understanding about what is causing it?

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Old 09-02-2018, 11:23 AM   #88
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Given the number of climate change deniers in our government there will be NO mitigation efforts made until it is far too late to have any effect on the causes. Since that is the most likely scenario to occur we need to turn our attention to ways of incentivizing people to leave flood prone coastal areas through such means as stricter zoning, building codes and withdrawal of flood insurance. Look at worst-case scenarios projected by the U.N. and other agencies: that is going to be our future because there is zero political will in any country to take any effective steps to deal with the situation. There is lots of talk, agreements get signed or broken and nothing really changes: modest goals get ignored, small steps are taken and hailed as major solutions, proposals are “studied” ad infinitum and still the hydrocarbons are pumped from the ground and burned in ever increasing amounts.
We can study cause and effect all we want, but until we decide as a society to actually DO SOMETHING what’s the point? It will take decades for the deniers to die off and leave positions of power where they can block, delay and obfuscate, by then it will be far too late. For example the idea that until we get a handle on the dust coming from Africa it is pointless to take any other steps to deal with the red tides. As long as attitudes like this as widespread, and they are, we are collectively doomed.
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Old 09-02-2018, 12:12 PM   #89
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I just tell my kids to buy property around there that is across the street from the current waterfront homes. They will be sitting pretty in 30 years.
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Old 09-02-2018, 03:39 PM   #90
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You would have to be a fool to believe that the current outbreak of red tide is not linked to fertilizer thick soup being pumped into the area in the billions of gallons from lake o.



Thanks big sugar! Y'all are the best!


Thank the cities north of the lake! The agricultural runoff is cleaner than the water they receive an has been for years.
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Old 09-02-2018, 06:45 PM   #91
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Man has made an awful mess of the Earth. Wish I could see it changing, but I can`t. Greed,Stupidity, Self Interest, + Increasing Population is a bad combination.
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Old 09-03-2018, 05:48 AM   #92
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"It seems we are hellbent on doing it the other way around this time."

The simple solution is old Qui Bono? Who benefits?

Or follow the money .

Our society does really well when a problem happens.

Having folks spend billions and change their lifestyle , no problem IF something happens.

A projection (all have been wrong so far , think Club of Rome 1960) that the water level in Miami might be .08 of an inch higher in 2200 AD does not cause folks to want to change.

Especially if going bankrupt is the price of change.


A thought to remember , the World did not begin the day you were born.
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Old 09-03-2018, 08:03 AM   #93
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A thought to remember , the World did not begin the day you were born.
Nor can you control every change that happens to weather.
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Old 09-03-2018, 08:36 AM   #94
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No one is talking about trying to control the weather, the issue is response or lack thereof to observed flooding in coastal metros. When city streets flood back up the storm drains during clear sunny days there is a problem. Where are the pumps, the sea walls or levees to keep downtowns habitable for a few more decades? Where are the revised zoning codes to elevate homes in flood plains or even ban rebuilding at taxpayer expense?

If you believe that climate change and sea level rise is a completely natural and normal process unaffected by human agency, the water is still going to come up. It does not matter what the cause is if downtown metro business districts flood every king tide today and every high tide in the future. We will either abandon our coasts to the whims of nature or do nothing until the very last minute then loudly throw money at the problem until we can guarantee that the politicians from the affected areas are re-elected.
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Old 09-03-2018, 09:00 AM   #95
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High water?

The Dutch created an answer a few centuries ago.

I do agree that the gov should be OUT of the flood (and every other) insurance game.

What ever the market charges , especially for repeat "disasters" would return rationality to the market.

There are buildings that stand in the Aleutian Islands , 150K winds , just built better.

In my "dream ideal" world the insurance company would rate the construction of your home , and you would only pay for the risk, to your home.They might even offer plans of proper construction.

Pay say 50% or 100% more on the initial build and pay 1/10 per year for insurance compared to the crap built cheapo.

To solve the Big Sugar as a bad guy problem simply repeal the swamps purchased gift of fixed US prices.

Let us consumers purchase free market sugar (and everything else) at world market prices.
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Old 09-03-2018, 11:17 AM   #96
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Sugar, corn and many other ag products are subsidized for no identifiable reason other than they have always been.
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Old 09-03-2018, 04:21 PM   #97
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Wifey B: Monk knew the truth.

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Old 09-03-2018, 10:34 PM   #98
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Your comparison of what to do about the red tide with rescuing a disaster at sea is totally wrong. The solution to the immediate problem with a disaster at sea is totally obvious- rescue.

The solution to the red tide problem is not obvious, so understanding the cause so we can do something about those causes and prevent it from happening again is the right way to go.

Also what would you propose to do about rising sea levels that doesn't require an understanding about what is causing it?

David

But for the intellectually lazy, its easier to grab a solution, however ridiculous, and without consideration of the unintended consequences and run with it, protests, and taxes be damned.
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Old 09-03-2018, 11:53 PM   #99
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Let us consumers purchase free market sugar (and everything else) at world market prices.
Opposed to tariffs? The Govt won`t be happy, but you are right.
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Old 09-04-2018, 05:59 AM   #100
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"But for the intellectually lazy, its easier to grab a solution, however ridiculous, and without consideration of the unintended consequences and run with it, protests, and taxes be damned."

This mentality is how we hot stuck with Ethanol,,,remember smog and acid rain?

The sky was falling (again) so we had ethanol mandated in our fuel. "Clean Air".

Millions for car , boat and other engines to have their fuel system repaired , at our personal expense .

Now that finally the huge damage to the atmosphere is being noticed from burning food, the question is how to end the insanity. At what cost?

The states love ethanol as it reduces fuel mileage , giving a boost to taxes collected by the gallon.

We will probably return to price supports to keep grain prices up when we stop burning food.

And all those local ethanol plants , another payout?
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