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Old 08-26-2018, 08:55 AM   #21
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2. No, sugar is not the entire problem. There is bad stuff coming into the lake from the north, a lot of it from septic tanks. There are way too many people living in Florida.

Please help me here. I often read about septic tanks being "a lot" of the problem. Sewage goes into a septic tank and is digested by bacteria. I understand it is relatively clean water which then flows into a drain field. How are septic tanks contributing to green algae in our waters? I live on a 35 acre rain feed pond here in Florida, 12 years. There are maybe 20 homes around the pond. Some as long as 25 years. My drain field is about 100 feet from the shore of the pond.
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Old 08-26-2018, 09:14 AM   #22
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Okeechobee does not have red tide. It has blue/green algae.
Cattle farming and even dust from Africa ( dried out lake Chad ) are additional suspects in the Okeechobee algae blooms as is restricting historic lake flushing outflow through the everglades.


Spanish explorers reported red tide in the Gulf of Mexico. It is a different organism than algae.
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Old 08-26-2018, 09:29 AM   #23
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Old 08-26-2018, 10:03 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by friz View Post
Please help me here. I often read about septic tanks being "a lot" of the problem. Sewage goes into a septic tank and is digested by bacteria. I understand it is relatively clean water which then flows into a drain field. How are septic tanks contributing to green algae in our waters? I live on a 35 acre rain feed pond here in Florida, 12 years. There are maybe 20 homes around the pond. Some as long as 25 years. My drain field is about 100 feet from the shore of the pond.

If the septic tank is fairly new, it is probably in good shape. One problem with septic tanks is many are very old, have cracks and leak and might not have been to today's standards in the first place. But there is no single contributor causing the runoff problem. It is a combination of numerous things treating FL waterways as drainage ditches.
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Old 08-26-2018, 11:41 AM   #25
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Yes, it is multiple problems. But we have to start somewhere, and the place to start is south of the lake.

Putnam and big sugar have been using diversionary tactics to protect their interests. Like saying red tide is natural, which is true but hiding that it is out of control now most likely as a result of all the fertilizer/pollution pumped into the gulf and down the rivers.

Pointing a finger at septic tanks is another example. So millions of individual Floridians, many of whom are not well off, should each address their tiny part of the problem, but the main pollutor, who has made millions by manipulating government officials and bilking the taxpayer does nothing?

Sure.

In the meantime, we can't go in the water, people are getting sick, millions of fish and marine mammels are dying, and tourisim dollars are disappearing.
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Old 08-26-2018, 12:53 PM   #26
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Florida fish and wildlife on red tides...

Red Tide FAQ
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Old 08-26-2018, 05:14 PM   #27
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"is restricting historic lake flushing outflow through the everglades."

That's the real problem. Historically, all of the water from Lake O and other places north of that would disperse into the everglades, which acted as a natural filter and flood buffer. Once that land was "sold" to Big Sugar, the water had to be redirected unnaturally into the rivers flowing east and west with no filter and no buffer. Last year the east coast of florida was inundated with the blue-green algae, killing off marshes and destroying marine life. This year it's aggravating the red tide problem on the west coast. All this DESPITE the fact that Florida voters approved a referendum allocating funds to purchase the land back from Sugar, which Rick Scott and Adam Putnam promptly ignored.

We don't get the government we need, we get the government we deserve.
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Old 08-26-2018, 05:34 PM   #28
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Greetings,
Mr. DS. As I understand it, as a result of the diversion of the natural water flow to the everglades, as you noted above, the various aquifers are unable to refill and are being depleted by human consumption, both rural and urban. Notable increase in sinkholes in FL.
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Old 08-26-2018, 05:58 PM   #29
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I wasn’t aware of the back pumping, south to north, until Doug mentioned it. I did a little research and found it does happen but not often.

Following is a link to a good story that talks about the whole water management issue. I was wondering where the water that flows into the lake comes from. I looked on Google Earth and was able to follow the Kissimmee River north almost to Orlando.

Back pumping water to Lake Okeechobee brings environmental concerns - Sun Sentinel
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Old 08-27-2018, 05:41 AM   #30
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When reality is out of fashion (not PC) hate myths become common.

BIG , anything is always an easy target.

Farmers , all types not just "Big Sugar" use their income to purchase fertilizer.

It is used in minimum amounts to keep the cost down.

If there is a soup of fertilizer washing in to rivers , it is more likely from the thousands of lawns from the thousands of new homes for the thousands of folks escaping the North, weather and taxation.


Like the Chessy lake O drains a huge area and gets it all,and suffers.
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Old 08-27-2018, 08:09 AM   #31
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As I said before, there is more than one problem facing the lake and the glades. But the biggest problem, and the historical problem stems from big sugar and the influence they have exerted over our political leaders on both the state and federal level.


Mote Marine Labs, perhaps the most respected marine biologists in the world, have stated that there is a likely connection between nutrient outflows and the rate of growth of red tide once it nears the coast. The "blue green algae does not cause red tide" line is a nice bit of verbal gymnastics. Not technically a lie, but not exactly accurate either. A lot like "I did not have sex with that woman."


The problem is deciding who to vote for. Personally, I couldn't care less what party they are associated with, I just want our next governor and senators to stand up for the people of the state without being on the take.



Yes, Rick Scott and Putnam have a sorry history with the sugar industry. Putnam in particular, and his current campaign is heavily funded by agriculture. But Gwen Graham and Bill Nelson also have a history of taking large donations. While Scott was doing nothing on the state level to fix the problem, Bill Nelson was equally paralyzed on the federal level. Where do you turn?
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Old 08-27-2018, 08:56 AM   #32
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Doug, I’m having the same problem as you. I don’t like anybody who is running for office down here. I received a link from this organization that might help us pick the best of a bad lot.
https://www.bullsugar.org/vote2018
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Old 08-27-2018, 09:03 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post
When reality is out of fashion (not PC) hate myths become common.

BIG , anything is always an easy target.

Farmers , all types not just "Big Sugar" use their income to purchase fertilizer.

It is used in minimum amounts to keep the cost down.

If there is a soup of fertilizer washing in to rivers , it is more likely from the thousands of lawns from the thousands of new homes for the thousands of folks escaping the North, weather and taxation.


Like the Chessy lake O drains a huge area and gets it all,and suffers.
I think you’re right about farmers not using more fertilizer than necessary. My guess is that a lot of the nutrients come from the huge cattle ranches north of the lake, cow poop.
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Old 08-27-2018, 09:59 AM   #34
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perhaps you will believe FWC
Red Tide FAQ


"Is the Florida red tide found in estuaries, bays or freshwater systems?
The Florida red tide can be found in bays and estuaries but not in freshwater systems such as lakes and rivers. Because K. brevis cannot tolerate low-salinity waters for very long, blooms usually remain in salty coastal waters and do not penetrate upper reaches of estuaries. However, other harmful algae, including cyanobacteria (blue-green algae), typically bloom in freshwater lakes and rivers"
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Old 08-27-2018, 10:34 AM   #35
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Hard to blame this on FL polititians

https://science.nasa.gov/science-new...001/ast30aug_1
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Old 08-27-2018, 12:33 PM   #36
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"Hard to blame this on FL polititians

https://science.nasa.gov/science-new...001/ast30aug_1"

You are right red tide its all D Trump's fault.

The forest fired in Calif , its all D Trump's fault.

The hurricane near Hawaii, its all D Trump's fault.

The volcano in Hawaii, its all D Trump's fault.

100 shot in a week in Chicago, its all D Trump's fault.

How dare NASA blow the narrative?
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Old 08-27-2018, 02:18 PM   #37
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From Mote Marine Labs.

Can coastal nutrient pollution worsen an existing Florida red tide that has moved to shore?

Yes, the scientific data available so far suggest that it is possible for nutrients flowing from land to sea — including natural AND human-contributed nutrients carried by storm water runoff and the input of rivers — to serve as additional “food” for growth of Karenia brevis red tide blooms that have moved to shore.

However, the process is very complex. K. brevis can use at least 12 sources of nitrogen and phosphorous nutrients, and some of those sources include human-contributed nutrients. Mote scientists partnered in major research efforts to gather that knowledge. Read a 2014 summary: https://mote.org/news/article/nutrie...in-major-study

In short, we know human-contributed nutrients can affect a coastal red tide, and we must expand our data and monitoring efforts to confirm whether and how they did in each specific case.

https://mote.org/news/florida-red-ti...%20red%20tide?
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Old 08-27-2018, 03:03 PM   #38
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Cardude gets it.


I know people are skimming this thread (I do it all the time too) but the point is not that red tide is coming from the lake, it's not. Or that red tide is not a naturally occurring organism, which it is.



The point is that the nutrients that are being dumped into the gulf at an alarming rate are making the red tide much, much worse.


On the Gulf coast the red tide is basically stretching from Naples in the South to Sarasota in the North. It's worst near Ft. Myers and Sanibel, which are right between Naples and Sarasota. The Caloosahatchee river drains from Lake O. It comes out into the Gulf in....wait for it....wait for it.....



Fort Myers.


I live on the Gulf Coast now in North Florida, Wakulla County, about 350 miles from the mouth of the Caloosahatchee. No cases of catastrophic red tide here. Or anywhere else in the state for that matter.


One last time. Sugar is responsible in multiple ways. They have historically polluted the lake. They won't give up the land that was basically gifted to them by the state so that the water can be cleaned then allowed to flow south to glades like it should. The glades are drying up. Filthy water is being pumped into the St. Lucie River on the East and the Caloosahatchee River on the West, causing all sorts of environmental disasters. Big Sugar has paid tens of millions of dollars to politicians of both parties on the state and federal level to protect their interests over the needs of the people of the state of Florida.



No, Sugar is clearly not the only problem, other sources are fouling the lake as well. But they are a very big part of the problem and they are standing in the way of the only viable solution.
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Old 08-27-2018, 03:47 PM   #39
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There is a big difference between correlation and causality.
Quote:
On the Gulf coast the red tide is basically stretching from Naples in the South to Sarasota in the North. It's worst near Ft. Myers and Sanibel, which are right between Naples and Sarasota. The Caloosahatchee river drains from Lake O. It comes out into the Gulf in....wait for it....wait for it.....
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Old 08-27-2018, 04:17 PM   #40
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Agreed about causation and correlation. There's also common sense.


So what, we just don't do anything about the run off since we can't absolutely prove that it is making the red tide much worse? And because the only people who benefit from the current situation claim they aren't the problem? Or at least say they aren't the only problem?



There's plenty of very strong reasons to get this fixed and not one reason not to act. We can't make things any worse.


The only valid argument that the sugar guys have is the loss of jobs that would come from a partial shutdown to their industry. I do sympathize with the mostly poor people who will lose their jobs because the industry they work in is harming the environment.


But what about all the people who are losing jobs right now because of the problem? Their jobs don't matter as much?
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