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Old 10-03-2017, 06:35 AM   #21
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Hi-

My wife and I are contemplating purchase of a 2000 Nordic Tug 42 with a 635 HP Cummins QSM11 with 1500 hours.

I am looking to purchase a semi-displacment hull vessel that can cruise all day at 14 knots. Is this realistic? Or not with this setup....

This would be our first NT and diesel setup.

Thanks,

Mike

Looks like it will do 17 knots with 450 hp so your goal should be fine......
Nordic Tug 42: Sea Trial - boats.com
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Old 10-03-2017, 06:45 AM   #22
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QSM11 question

Thanks everyone for the quick responses to potential cruising speed.

I plan on having an engine survey completed on the Cummins QSM11 but would like to know from those that have this powerplant what are some possible issues at 1500 hours we may be facing?

I am trying to get maintenance records for the engine.

I really do not want to do a re-power early after purchase.

Thanks,

M.
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Old 10-03-2017, 07:26 AM   #23
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The NT 42 is a great vessel with two large staterooms and separate shower/heads. These boats are made so very strong. As I investigated all the nooks and crannies, and all the on board systems of our new to me 2002 37’ I was pleasantly surprised without ever being disappointed. The holding tank is in the keel so the boat never stinks.
Now here’s the thing. At 1200-1400 RPM you can sip fuel all day long. Once above 1500 you can begin to kiss fuel economy good bye. We travel up the east coast from Florida to New England each summer for five months. Both the engine and generator/AC are running most days. We spend less than $3,500.00 for fuel during the five months of traveling. Run your boat at 14 knots and that number will be closer to $10,000.00.
Nothing wrong with 7.5 Knots.
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Old 10-03-2017, 07:29 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by mvp View Post
Thanks everyone for the quick responses to potential cruising speed.

I plan on having an engine survey completed on the Cummins QSM11 but would like to know from those that have this powerplant what are some possible issues at 1500 hours we may be facing?

I am trying to get maintenance records for the engine.

I really do not want to do a re-power early after purchase.

Thanks,

M.
Insure the after cooler has been properly serviced and pressure tested by a Cummins tech in the past two years. Or consider having this and all other service done as a pre-condition to sale. It is not about hours, it is about time and marine age. You may want to review this engine on boatdiesel archives.
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Old 10-03-2017, 07:52 AM   #25
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A. The builder will sea trial a boat with next to nothing onboard. 1/2 fuel maybe 1/2 water and one or two folks onboard
B. IF you have a builder's fuel consumption vs RPMs, take it with a grain of salt, but it is a starting point.
C. Take the builder's graph and create your own graph based upon your real life experience. We do have a tendency to load up a "our" boat.
D. We have to make a decision, fuel or distance. Are we racing a tide or darkness? The next fueling station?
E. Want to go fast? Buy a bass boat or a big RIB and load it up with outboards.
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Old 10-03-2017, 08:35 AM   #26
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42', 880hp total, semi displacement & 18 knots all day with no problem!
Speed is towards the end of the video. (Sister ship)
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Old 10-03-2017, 08:49 AM   #27
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MVP: 1500 hours is not too much for a properly maintained engine, you're smart to get an engine survey. Ask for the maintenance logbooks, and during the survey they will send out oil samples for analysis; these are very helpful. We have a Cummins QSC so I can't speak directly about a QSM, though I think Cummins makes some great products.
NTs are great boats and we went out in a 42 last year, they are sister ships to American tug. they were in our top 2 or 3 when we were shopping but ultimately went with an AT that became available in great shape. We too have high hp and from personal experience, we really appreciate being able to push speed to the high teens once in a great while but we also mostly go about 8 kts and sip about 3GPH. When at 8 kts, our engine is very low noise and smooth.
If you haven't yet been on a sea trial; this is a great experience and time to get a feel for that boat; the surveyor should even let you take the wheel for a moment and he will try to take the boat to WOT. When on the sea trial, be sure to walk around and spend a little time not only in pilot house but also saloon.
iPhone and likely others have a free APP to measure peak noise levels, i've used this during sea trials to compare noise on different boats. Of course, if the surveyor has an engine room hatch open, the noise measurement won't be realistic
One other thing on NTs: some had a minor separation at the seam where the back of the pilot house meets the upper deck of the saloon roof; ask the surveyor about this but he will be checking moisture anyway. Even if it has this issue I believe it is a minor thing to seal/repair.
Best of luck to you and please let us know how it goes... and of course everyone on this forum loves to see boat pics!
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Old 10-03-2017, 09:49 AM   #28
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I've heard they can hit the upper 60's to low 70's, but I think that's pushing it just a bit.




Sorry, couldn't resist.
Putting a boat of that size on the six small pads of that hydraulic trailer is a recipe for unseen structural damage to the hull skin!
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Old 10-03-2017, 10:17 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mvp View Post
Thanks everyone for the quick responses to potential cruising speed.



I plan on having an engine survey completed on the Cummins QSM11 but would like to know from those that have this powerplant what are some possible issues at 1500 hours we may be facing?



I am trying to get maintenance records for the engine.



I really do not want to do a re-power early after purchase.



Thanks,



M.


You will want to replace the raw water pump.
Check the “Play” in the turbo probably replace.
The three wiper blade linkages will be rusted up and very difficult for the electric motors to move. They need to be replaced ($600) if you do it yourself.
You will need to reseal all of the upper deck handrail supports.
We had a leaking lift muffler fitting. Turned out it wasn’t the hose it was a cracked fiberglass flange. That was $1,800.00.
Remove 14 years of bottom paint and repaint. $7k
Ours is a 2002 37’ we bought in 2014.
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Old 10-03-2017, 10:22 AM   #30
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Like my Father In Law, Murray Millhouse, an automotive engineer used to say: "When you want to get something moving, there is nothing that enough money and horsepower can not solve" Money= diesel fuel

Totally agree, about 80 hp will move this boat at hull speed. The calculations are easy to do.
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Old 10-03-2017, 10:24 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mvp View Post
Hi-

My wife and I are contemplating purchase of a 2000 Nordic Tug 42 with a 635 HP Cummins QSM11 with 1500 hours.

I am looking to purchase a semi-displacment hull vessel that can cruise all day at 14 knots. Is this realistic? Or not with this setup....

This would be our first NT and diesel setup.

Thanks,

Mike

Mike,
The NT is a SD hull so your "top cruising speed" is just how fast the NT you want will go when the engine is at the max continuous output level. It may supprise you how high that output level is. And at the speed that max cont power delivers you may not like other things that may be going on. If it's choppy or worse you may not like the rough ride or all the seawater slaming down on the boat. Vibraation wise that speed may not be a "sweet spot". Or you don't like the bow high attitude. As in most things boating there are lots of variables.

But as to max continuous speed it's easy to find. You can probably just ask NT. By the way .. great choice of boat.

Oh I see Smitty in post #21 has it already researched.
A constant output of about 380hp should be a walk in the park for a 600hp engine.
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Old 10-03-2017, 10:39 AM   #32
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Putting a boat of that size on the six small pads of that hydraulic trailer is a recipe for unseen structural damage to the hull skin!
I agree the aft pad is may be supporting over half the weight of the boat. And the fwd pad is probably just transfering weight to the aft pad. Bad
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Old 10-03-2017, 11:02 AM   #33
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NT's are semi-displacement hulls. They will go quite a bit above hull speed, but at considerable cost in fuel. Don't know about the 42's max, but my 2002 NT37 with 330 hp Cummins hits 16 knots wide open. Friends say their 37 can go 12 knots all day, but I don't do that, more like 7-7.5 normal cruise, and max 9-10 (when I have a good reason to be in a hurry and am willing to burn much more fuel).
Numbers from this year's 5-month summer cruise of BC and SE Alaska:

Total nautical miles: 4403
Gallons burned (including generator): 1158
Overall average NM per gallon: 3.8

We traveled at 7-7.5 knots most of the time, but did 8 knots or more (relative to water, of course) maybe 10%.
On one tankfull, during which we kept more to 7, we calculated 4.4 nmpg.
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Old 10-03-2017, 11:09 AM   #34
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Mike,
The NT is a SD hull so your "top cruising speed" is just how fast the NT you want will go when the engine is at the max continuous output level. It may supprise you how high that output level is. And at the speed that max cont power delivers you may not like other things that may be going on. If it's choppy or worse you may not like the rough ride or all the seawater slaming down on the boat. Vibraation wise that speed may not be a "sweet spot". Or you don't like the bow high attitude. As in most things boating there are lots of variables.

But as to max continuous speed it's easy to find. You can probably just ask NT. By the way .. great choice of boat.

Oh I see Smitty in post #21 has it already researched.
A constant output of about 380hp should be a walk in the park for a 600hp engine.

FWIW - What I found on our last 47 foot 35000#+ boat was that the ride was most often much better at 17 knots then at 7 knots when in a choppy sea. The vibration and sound level was also very good when comparing the two speeds in rougher seas - you need to be able to achieve those speeds in order to do a fair comparison. The boat had twin 315 hp engines and would top out at about 22/23 knots.
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Old 10-03-2017, 11:18 AM   #35
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I agree the aft pad is may be supporting over half the weight of the boat. And the fwd pad is probably just transfering weight to the aft pad. Bad
Hydraulic trailers that do not lift via the keel should be banned.
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Old 10-03-2017, 11:29 AM   #36
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If you want to cruise at 14 knots all day you should be looking at a different kind of boat. Buying a slow boat for a fast journey is not smart.

That said, a Nordic Tug is a fine boat and 1500 hours is nothing on a diesel engine.
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Old 10-03-2017, 11:41 AM   #37
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Another reinforcement that generalized statements that SD boats point their bows skyward at speed are not accurate. It depends on the hull design-drive train and weight distribution. I suspect some of this misinformed opinion is based in prejudice against the SD hull. I have been running high speed capable SD hulls on two different boats since 2007 and the ride is pretty flat on both. My present boat has trim tabs but they are not needed. I have observed SD boat ride nose up and Full displacement boats nose down it is all in the details of design implementation and how the individual owner might modify the equation. There is nothing inherently wrong with either type just different inherent capabilities with considerable overlap at and below hull speed. While a FD boat has a slight edge on fuel burn at lower speeds it is rarely an economically significant difference when comparing apples to apples. Depending on where and how the boat is used the ride roll and comfort differences can also cancel out. I would rather be anchored or slow running in a wake area with my present SD than my previous FD rolly Polly round bottom FD. I like both types and would own either depending on where and how I intended to use the boat.
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Old 10-03-2017, 11:55 AM   #38
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The way that boat is powered it can likely do 20+ knots on the top end - no problem cruising at 14-15 with that type of power.
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Old 10-03-2017, 12:26 PM   #39
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I am on my second Nordic Tug 42, a 2000 model with a 330 Cummins and a 2006 with a 540 Cummins.

First, Nordic Tugs are not meant to plane but my newer one will easily. Keep your Exxon card handy if you choose to cruise much above 8,5 knots with either engine.

My 330 hp tug would top out at about 12 knots. We cruised it at 8.5 knots for almost 3,000 hours without a single problem. It went though three 1,000 hours checks which included a valve adjustment.

The 540 hp we have now will top out at about 19 knots with half fuel and water plus six passengers. It makes a very nice wake at that speed because it is fully up on top. The fuel burn at that speed is over 30 gph. At 8.5 knots the fuel burn is 7.7 gph. Anything in between it is plowing and will put out a wake that will roll a battleship over. Lugging with the bow high is not good.

I wish you well with that big engine. It should be fine for a long time if the PO treated it well.

A seasoned Cummins engine surveyor will be money well spent. He can ping all sorts of info about the engine's history.
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Old 10-03-2017, 01:27 PM   #40
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I called NT

Ok..

So, I got the hull number and thought I might try calling NT to see if they had the original sea trials. To my utter amazement Dave pulled out the record and is sending me the original numbers..

Here are a few readings from 2000:

750 rpm...5 knots
2800 rpm.... 17 knots

The boat seemed "comfortable" at 2200 rpm when I was on it but I did not see the GPS speed....too busy looking at all the other gauges...


Dave will send me more numbers. I was hoping for fuel flow but for some reason they did not have or measure that. I thought the Cummins would have a smart craft gauge? Maybe not..

I think the original sea trial will be great to compare to a new sea trial.

M.

Attached is pdf report. Vessel Data speed slightly different than what is reported on second page under performance...
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 201710031107.pdf (242.0 KB, 57 views)
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