Radar "Required" or "Optional" for Great Loop?
- Thread starter Boilermaker75
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You're trying to be too nautical, just drive the boat to the dock, park it and set the parking brake. The traditions and arcane terms of the sea no longer have meaning or value and are greeted with derision when used. I suppose this all part of the infamous "dumbing down" brought by technology.
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psneeld
Guru
Most boaters never "go to sea"....its just another toy and another pastime. Heck even the ones that make it a primary hobby barely get past the basics let alone "traditions" most seafarers relate to.
Cigatoo
Guru
You are not in the wrong place. Stick around. Your experience is valuable to the forum.
psneeld
Guru
Only if you think that.
I know my years at sea on USCG cutters have little to do with what most here are interested in...the 3 trips to the Actic and one to Antarctica icebreaking have even less interest except for the occasional sea story.
The 15 years of assistance towing/salvage have quite a bit iin common with daily topics.
You just have to see it through the eyes of a 200 hr (or less) a year boater that never ventures forth in greater than 3 foot seas and 15 knots of wind and is anchored or moored in a marina every night. Sure there are variations on this theme, but really how many coastal cruisers vary much from those parameters regularly?
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BandB
Never said they weren't. Most, at least, were willing to learn, and a bunch had a lot of knowledge.
''
Paul,
Good point, but a recreational boater will never get to the stage that your at. I'm sure most of us recreational guys appreciate your input.
I can be one of those 200 hrs or less, but the last few years a bit more. And my goal is to never venture forth in seas greater than 3 ft or 15 knots of wind. I do this for fun, not a job. And I'm sure that the vast majority of us, commercial or recreational, are anchor or moored at a marina every night. Few choose to do the all nighters. BUT, we get there, too.
You have a lot of insight as to just boating. Keep up the great posts.
Wifey B: If you called me that I'd scold you too as would other lady captains I know and some ladies who were previously here. I would make it clear I'm a Captain, not an Admiral. What you and your wife agree to is fine with me. I see Admiral as a derogatory term implying issuing orders but doing no work and not holding the same skills or doing equal work to the Captain. Others may see it as a term of honor and endearment.
BandB Wifey:
What gets me is that an Admiral is a higher rank that the Captain. It's an honored position. The Admiral can manage a fleet, and can certainly act as Captain. Who the hell said an Admiral had no skills? How did the Admiral get there anyway?
Why is it derogatory??? Just don't understand that one.
However, I'd be glad to call you what ever I want. My co Captain, prefers to be an Admiral.
angus99
Guru
SeeVee, my wife finds it derogatory as well—right up there with she-who-must-be-obeyed. She gets the humor but doesn’t think of a marriage as one where orders are given or taken by either party . . . and neither do I. Neither of us care how others refer to their spouses—whatever works is what works—but I wouldn’t call my wife “admiral” for the simple reason she doesn’t like it.
I know...you indicated they were the ones looking to learn. I was agreeing and emphasizing for Diver too.
I boat in the Pacific NW and use all of the aids mentioned. Chartplotters with AIS and Radar overlay, and I do love my Autopilot. My Radar is on as soon as I clear the marina. As a smart person taught me, “if you don’t use it when conditions are clear, you will probably not be comfortable or good with it in fog.” With the Radar always on, I practice spotting nav buoys, small boats, etc, working the gain as needed.
I had an unexpected very thick fog come up a few months ago when crossing Puget Sound back to my home marina. I left Bremerton in sunny weather, poked out into the main channel and wham! I ended up traveling the 7? miles back at about 5 knots, sounding my horn, listening hard and watching the Radar! I couldn’t see the marina breakwater until I was right there, but it showed up just fine on Radar.
I had an unexpected very thick fog come up a few months ago when crossing Puget Sound back to my home marina. I left Bremerton in sunny weather, poked out into the main channel and wham! I ended up traveling the 7? miles back at about 5 knots, sounding my horn, listening hard and watching the Radar! I couldn’t see the marina breakwater until I was right there, but it showed up just fine on Radar.
dieck
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Radar required
for me safety on board is the main issue. Radar today is not so much a navigational aid but a safety Installation that should be on the Minimum required list of any Boat or Yacht doing more than just day trips.
In 20 years I have had to really use my Radar 3 to 4 times and that already justifies this Installation. I am just installing a new one.
Besides Radars have been decresuing in priced and increasing in functions over the years. They als have a Long usefull life.
Good luck with your decision
for me safety on board is the main issue. Radar today is not so much a navigational aid but a safety Installation that should be on the Minimum required list of any Boat or Yacht doing more than just day trips.
In 20 years I have had to really use my Radar 3 to 4 times and that already justifies this Installation. I am just installing a new one.
Besides Radars have been decresuing in priced and increasing in functions over the years. They als have a Long usefull life.
Good luck with your decision
Thanks that's a good idea, everyone one has good information or point of view to share but when it becomes a debate, or worse an argument I find it very discouraging.
angus99
Guru
Respectful debate is one of the main purposes of a forum like this and—in my view—one of TF’s strong points. People generally get pushback here when they feel like their posts ought to be chiseled in granite for the rest of the poor, unwashed boating world to accept without question. You obviously have a ton of knowledge so I hope you hang around.
I like to believe I have a ton of knowledge but as the vast majority of my experience is commercial and in extreme conditions I have a hard time seeing things from a recreational viewpoint. I doubt many here have had to operate safely and successfully on the Grand Banks or Bering Sea in January without benefit of a handy place of refuge. Also aesthetics and comfort are a foreign concept to me being replaced by strength and seaworthiness. Like this thread for example, I find it difficult to see a resistance to having radar when to me the array of benefits it provides when used to it's full potential for a relatively minor expense is understood. Some feel it isn't necessary for collision avoidance and others discount it's position determining and navigational abilities. Both to my mind are essential and easily realized when one is trained and practices it's use. But I failed to take the limited activities of some forum users into account when expressing my opinions, for that I am guilty and apologize.
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On station in January 100 miles off Newfoundland 5 knots in a 5 mile circle for 30 days. Aboard a 250’ gearing class radar picket destroyer. Seems like the USA thought early warning radar stations where a viable precaution to a cold war attack.
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ranger58sb
Guru
In the grand scheme of recreational boating... fit-out is sometimes merely an acknowledgement that the ol' wallet isn't always big enough to pay for all the stuff one would like to have.
That can often cause said boater to modify his or her style of boating -- just don't go out at night or in fog or whatever -- but of course that's a luxury (?) commercial guys don't have.
As pertains to this thread, I don't think that changes the basic value of radar (or whatever)... instead, radar (or whatever) can become one entry, of many, in a prioritized list of stuff... where the individual priorities are set only by the specific boater...
Or something like that.
No need to apologize.
-Chris
So you certainly understand the type of conditions that you can be presented with. Now add to it 90' and working on an open deck sixteen hours a day.
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Cigatoo
Guru
Being a life long New Englander I have the greatest respect for the commercial guys. Especially this time of year in the North Atlantic. (Sadly we lost 2 last week off of Block Island.) I watch them go out in weather that frankly they shouldn’t be out in. However they do so to earn a living. You have to respect their traditions and seamanship if not their reasoning. It’s one thing to be out there in a cutter or the like and another to be out there in a 65 foot tin can where the welding machine is your best friend. These guys know how to read the weather and with nothing but life long experience have learned how to deal with the worst of Mother Nature. And most will go out of their way to assist a less experienced mariner when asked to do so.
I have similar respect for those that in a “normal” day “humbly” risk their lives to save the commercial guys as well as other mariners and victims of disaster.
I hope to learn from everyone on this forum.
I have similar respect for those that in a “normal” day “humbly” risk their lives to save the commercial guys as well as other mariners and victims of disaster.
I hope to learn from everyone on this forum.
twistedtree
Guru
I think you will quickly find that some people argue against the need for anything that they don't have or don't understand. It's pretty easy to detect, and just glaze over. Others want to learn, from you, and as you want to learn. That's where the discussions are productive, often very productive.
Time to walk away from this thread. It's become an unproductive rat hole, as threads sometimes do.
My knee jerk reaction to the thought of foregoing radar for a dishwasher or new flybridge enclosure is no doubt inappropriate in the context of these discussions. Many folks just want to relax and enjoy their boats and I understand that but my reflex response gets the better of me. I should add that due to health issues at age sixty which forced me out as the USCG lifted my license leaving me unemployed, bored and mostly very much missing my previous life, which I'm having a hard time watching drift off into the past.
I was a strong, healthy guy at 60 but that stroke and open heart surgery put the brakes on quite suddenly, 65 now and back obviously with new lessons to learn. Thanks.
Cigatoo
Guru
Sorry for the unexpected life changes. Find ways to enrich others with your lifelong experience. It is certainly welcome here.
sunchaser
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Larry
You've received much advice and read some interesting thread drift. I can't add to what has been said as to necessity of radar.
Maybe I'm coming at this issue from a different viewpoint though. It sounds like (I can be very wrong) you've had little experience in long range cruising on loop type waters. I've done the loop, but by piecemeal on all the waters except Eastern Canada. For these varying waters and distances, the boat type and speed you select to travel may bear scrutiny.
For the loop , I'd much prefer a faster boat than the typical 8 knot trawler. With that "speed" any weather or other delays you encounter can easily made back up. The size of the vessel and how you choose to equip it is solely up to your wallet and comfort factor. Speed can be in a very nice 28 foot vessel or a 40 footer.
Being from Chicago, I'm sure you've seen the types of vessels I am suggesting. For several years we had a 36' sport fisherman type vessel for cruising on the inland rivers. The ability to cover an easy 120 miles in a day was frequently used. During bad weather we'd anchor or if near an interesting place do a shore trip or two, fully well knowing that we could easily make up for lost time.
Possibly selecting a faster boat that doesn't force you to "schedule" travel when in snotty weather is a safer approach than worrying about radar or instrument skills you may lack (we all lack them to a degree). Enjoy the journey.
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ranger58sb
Guru
I wouldn't at all say your reactions are inappropriate... for you... just that your thoughts may not be the same as someone else's. Different strokes float different boats, so to speak, as individual priorities vary. As do individual ideas of what constitutes "enjoyment."
Sorry to hear about your previous health issues, but it sounds like "You're Back" now, a good thing. Enjoy.
-Chris
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