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Old 01-11-2021, 02:33 PM   #1
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Puget Sound NDZ and Dye Tablets

I had heard that there was a move to require recreational boaters within the Puget Sound NDZ to put dye tablets in black tanks.

I contacted RBAW (Recreational Boating Association of Washington), Doug Levy.

Below was their response:

Tom


Someone else had relayed that. I have not heard it. Dept. of Ecology has not begun enforcing the NDZ, has not been budgeted any $ for NDZ, and is in the middle of a federal lawsuit involving underlying arguments such as the sufficiency of pumpout capacity – so I would be surprised if something like this were underway.
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Old 01-16-2021, 09:16 PM   #2
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So does anyone have a issue with an 'enforcers boarding your boat to deposit a purple dye tablet in your system?

I know places in SO Cali have this issue. Florida?

It looks like no enforcement in Puget Sound until all the court cases are resolved.
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Old 01-16-2021, 09:52 PM   #3
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One humpback whale dump is probably equivalent to 25 trawlers. Start feeding the humpies dye?
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Old 01-16-2021, 10:04 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction View Post
I had heard that there was a move to require recreational boaters within the Puget Sound NDZ to put dye tablets in black tanks.

I contacted RBAW (Recreational Boating Association of Washington), Doug Levy.

Below was their response:

Tom


Someone else had relayed that. I have not heard it. Dept. of Ecology has not begun enforcing the NDZ, has not been budgeted any $ for NDZ, and is in the middle of a federal lawsuit involving underlying arguments such as the sufficiency of pumpout capacity – so I would be surprised if something like this were underway.

Never going to happen.
No budget for it.


Sounds like fake news to get boaters riled up.
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Old 01-16-2021, 10:38 PM   #5
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I heard a firsthand report of state officers boarding boats and placing dye in the toilets and then ordering the toilet flushed to observe results. This was some years back over in the Jacksonville area to catch southbound vessels coming in from Georgia. Have not hear it again though.
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Old 01-17-2021, 12:29 AM   #6
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I find the concept humorous. Go ahead, pass a law that says I have to have dye in my holding tank. Now what, are you going to pull me over and pump me out to see if I complied? Harbors are going to make me drop the tablets before I can dock? So what, I would never pump out in a marina. Are they going to start flying air patrols looking for a line of dye following boats. The cost of enforcement is beyond what the state is willing to pay.
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Old 01-17-2021, 12:29 AM   #7
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I've had them do it in Avalon harbor on Catalina a few years ago, but I don't think they still do. Didn't seem like that big of a deal. What is all the worry about it?
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Old 01-17-2021, 01:34 AM   #8
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Dye in the head

I had them do that in Santa Barbara Harbor a few years back when we were guests there. Perminately based residents don't have it done to them, just visiting boats going to guest slips.

Not an issue because I always switch over to Holding tank whenever we go in to harbor or marina.

Avalon did it as well, but again that was a few years back.

Does anyone know if either location I have mentioned still do this ?

Thanks.
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Old 01-17-2021, 01:47 AM   #9
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Avalon still requires the dye tab test. Failing the test or interfering with it gets you removed from the harbor and denied use of the harbor for a year. If you refuse to take the test you can’t use the harbor.

Oceanside Harbor requires us to have our boats inspected every three years and they do a dye test as part of the inspection.
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Old 01-17-2021, 01:56 AM   #10
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Royal Purple

Being of royal blood our "output" is,of course, purple . So how could the Poo Police tell?
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Old 01-17-2021, 10:22 AM   #11
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Being of royal blood our "output" is,of course, purple . So how could the Poo Police tell?
Dye tablets are green so your purple poop is of no consequence.
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Old 01-17-2021, 10:41 AM   #12
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I believe Avalon has the regulation but in my visits in 2020 they did not do it. Perhaps that may be because of Covid. But i was there in 2019 and no one asked or offered either.
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Old 01-17-2021, 11:21 AM   #13
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Avalon still requires the dye tab test. Failing the test or interfering with it gets you removed from the harbor and denied use of the harbor for a year. If you refuse to take the test you can’t use the harbor.

2-3 years ago I read a report (I wish I'd saved it!) discussing the dilapidated condition of municipal sewer systems in US coastal cities that cited the 10 dirtiest harbors in the US. Avalon was #1! The sewer pipes on Catalina are in such bad condition that almost 100& of its sewage goes into the water raw, almost all of it into Avalon. Key West harbor was also high on that list, due to both the condition of its sewer pipes but also because they only extend about 1 mile from shore.

The situation in Puget Sound is typical of politically motivated NDZ laws--which almost all of them are. About 10 years ago I read a Canadian release that wasn't supposed to "go public" that due to insufficient budget, they were leaving all ND enforcement up to provincial and local authorities. It disappeared before I thought to save it.

Although it's rare to read that a state openly admits that there's little or no enforcement of draconian NDZ laws, enforcement is so expensive that I suspect that there's a lot less than those who rammed them down our throats want us to believe.

I've saved the quote from the Doug Levy, RBAW (Recreational Boating Association of Washington), re enforcement in Puget Sound to post on other sites.

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Old 01-17-2021, 11:32 AM   #14
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Quote:
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One humpback whale dump is probably equivalent to 25 trawlers. Start feeding the humpies dye?
Now that’s funny and something most people, including boaters never think about.

Eating up to 2,000 pounds of food in a day, humpback whales excrete mostly liquid fish fertilizer, contributing to the ocean’s ecosystems, while humans dump mostly rum, Klondike Bars and narcotics as biowaste.

Thus, I'd still rather swim in Johnstone Strait than Von Donop.

The average humpback whale produces +/-250 gal urine per day and +/- 60 gallons of poop in a movement several times a day. https://youtu.be/iGdiqbHESIA?t=73
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Old 01-17-2021, 11:36 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by HeadMistress View Post
Avalon still requires the dye tab test. Failing the test or interfering with it gets you removed from the harbor and denied use of the harbor for a year. If you refuse to take the test you can’t use the harbor.

2-3 years ago I read a report (I wish I'd saved it!) discussing the dilapidated condition of municipal sewer systems in US coastal cities that cited the 10 dirtiest harbors in the US. Avalon was #1! The sewer pipes on Catalina are in such bad condition that almost 100& of its sewage goes into the water raw, almost all of it into Avalon. Key West harbor was also high on that list, due to both the condition of its sewer pipes but also because they only extend about 1 mile from shore.

The situation in Puget Sound is typical of politically motivated NDZ laws--which almost all of them are. About 10 years ago I read a Canadian release that wasn't supposed to "go public" that due to insufficient budget, they were leaving all ND enforcement up to provincial and local authorities. It disappeared before I thought to save it.

Although it's rare to read that a state openly admits that there's little or no enforcement of draconian NDZ laws, enforcement is so expensive that I suspect that there's a lot less than those who rammed them down our throats want us to believe.

I've saved the quote from the Doug Levy, RBAW (Recreational Boating Association of Washington), re enforcement in Puget Sound to post on other sites.

--Peggie
We spend a fair bit of time in Avalon, although not at all in 2020. I've seen them ripping up the streets and repairing pipes pretty regularly, I can believe they have their share of issues in the infrastructure department. Since we have been going to Avalon since the 60's we have seen improvements in the water quality in the harbor, but it still has a significant amount of pollution, mostly oil though. The one thing Avalon has is a pretty good computer system for managing the moorings and so on. They always know who I am when I pull in from my CF numbers. I suspect they keep track of if they've done the dye test. It will be interesting when I bring in our new boat to see if they do the check, provided the Covid issue has settled down. I expect they put the test on hold during this period.
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Old 01-17-2021, 11:56 AM   #16
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Never going to happen.
No budget for it.


Sounds like fake news to get boaters riled up.
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That won't stop them -- simple matter to charge a "user fee" to go along with the dye. It is really just a question of political will, and sentiment against governmental intrusion is swinging rapidly. Part of the strategy is to portray the opposition (to whatever governmental intrusion is desired) as that of "far-right kooks". Examples abound.
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Old 01-17-2021, 12:04 PM   #17
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We spend a fair bit of time in Avalon, although not at all in 2020. I've seen them ripping up the streets and repairing pipes pretty regularly, I can believe they have their share of issues in the infrastructure department. Since we have been going to Avalon since the 60's we have seen improvements in the water quality in the harbor, but it still has a significant amount of pollution, mostly oil though. The one thing Avalon has is a pretty good computer system for managing the moorings and so on. They always know who I am when I pull in from my CF numbers. I suspect they keep track of if they've done the dye test. It will be interesting when I bring in our new boat to see if they do the check, provided the Covid issue has settled down. I expect they put the test on hold during this period.
We go to Avalon only once or twice a year. Without exception, they come aboard and drop a dye tablet down each head, flush, then check to make sure the sea water around the boat is clear, demonstrating that the heads are not flushing overboard. If, as occasionally happens, a boat pumps any of its contents overboard, the surrounding water immediately turns a fluorescent yellow, from the dye. At that point, a citation is issued and the boat is expelled from Avalon for a year.

From your post, it sounds as if the Avalon Harbor Patrol doesn't routinely put dye in your heads? Is there some other "test" that you are referring to?
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Old 01-17-2021, 10:10 PM   #18
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We go to Avalon only once or twice a year. Without exception, they come aboard and drop a dye tablet down each head, flush, then check to make sure the sea water around the boat is clear, demonstrating that the heads are not flushing overboard. If, as occasionally happens, a boat pumps any of its contents overboard, the surrounding water immediately turns a fluorescent yellow, from the dye. At that point, a citation is issued and the boat is expelled from Avalon for a year.

From your post, it sounds as if the Avalon Harbor Patrol doesn't routinely put dye in your heads? Is there some other "test" that you are referring to?
They almost never do the dye thing on our old boat. I had assumed they had either stopped doing it or only do it the first time the boat comes in and once they have it on record they don't continue it. Perhaps they don't bother with the smaller boats anymore, this one was only 26'.
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Old 01-17-2021, 11:18 PM   #19
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Public service announcement

What does orange and green make?
Orange and green when mixed together will neutralize each other, which means they will create a neutral color (brown) which is neither orange nor green. But that said, what kind of a brown they make will depend on what kind of orange and what kind of green being used.
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Old 01-17-2021, 11:54 PM   #20
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BTW, I've pumped out a holding tank with the green dye once out of Avalon and it's impressive. Think rescue swimmer dye markers. You don't want to try that in the harbor.
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