Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-18-2022, 03:09 PM   #81
Senior Member
 
darkside's Avatar
 
City: Tauranga
Vessel Name: Ahi
Vessel Model: Roger Hill Powercat
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 272
Yes Simi is correct. The secret to make long skinny hulls nice to live with is to have two of them joined together.
It isn't original thinking either. That's more or less how people crossed oceans for the last 3000 years or so down our way.
darkside is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2022, 03:48 PM   #82
Guru
 
City: NC
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,082
Quote:
Originally Posted by rslifkin View Post
The hybrid also comes in handy for short moves, I'd think. If I were departing to head off to my next destination, but needed to run across the harbor for fuel and a pumpout before departing, I'd probably just make that move on electric power (especially if starting off at anchor to save the engine idling along while the anchor is retrieved) and then fire up the diesels on the way out from the fuel dock.
Yes, that is a hybrid use case, as is a short move from one anchorage to another for an expected weather shift.

The question becomes, how often does one perform these use cases, and is it worth the cost of the hybrid system? I think for the most part these use cases are not worth the expense of the hybrid system.

We really are interested in traveling in Europe in the canals. That is something that is not going to happen in a boat with a large air draft. Even the LRCs, with their low air draft, are not going to get into some canals, but there are still plenty that would be accessible. The hybrid use in the canals is something one would use quite a bit and would seem to make the system worth the cost.

The hybrid really starts to make sense when you see the low speed limits on some of the canals which would seem to be a problem for properly loading a diesel on an LRC.

With a full day of sun, even if only five hours of sun, it would seem that the LRC 65 hybrid could run eight hours or so, and end up they day with nearly charged batteries, as long as the boat speed is kept down, which is likely due to speed limits on some canals. It certainly seems possible that the hybrid could move the boat with very little, to no expense, for diesel fuel at least in the summer time. Winter would be a different story.

Later,
Dan
dannc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2022, 06:01 PM   #83
Senior Member
 
darkside's Avatar
 
City: Tauranga
Vessel Name: Ahi
Vessel Model: Roger Hill Powercat
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 272
A fully electric catamaran ferry now in operation in Wellington.
Click image for larger version

Name:	278757881_5036506409751846_7802923098234343053_n (2).jpg
Views:	10
Size:	83.3 KB
ID:	127773
darkside is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2022, 09:11 PM   #84
Senior Member
 
mcarthur's Avatar
 
City: Canberra
Vessel Name: Blu Emu
Vessel Model: Ligure 50' aluminium power catamaran
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 262
Phew - that's a serious bit of kit!
750v - and here's me wondering whether 48v is going to be ok!

More info:
Quote:
The ferry can carry 132 passengers, Foote says.

The boat is 90 meters long, seven meters wide and has 5500 kilos of batteries onboard powering two electric motors that propel the boat, each motor has 325 kilowatts or 500 horsepower.

The boat easily matches a diesel, Foote says.

“We had an expected speed at probably 22 knots in light ship. And we got 24 and a half knots, so it's going a lot faster than we thought.

During our sea trials, we put the equivalent of 99 passengers on board, we had to of course use water because of Covid instead of people, and we got 22 knots.”

The batteries take a couple of hours to charge, Foote says. There is a charger in Eastbourne and one will be built at Queens Wharf.

They have devised a system to keep the batteries cool and operating optimally on board, he says, and there is no diesel backup on board.

“If there is a problem with one side of the boat, there's a computer system that enables us to shut the boat down safely on one side. So, being a catamaran with two propellers, all you do is just go to the shore using one propeller. “

Another big advantage of the boat is significantly reduced maintenance costs, Foote says.

“A normal diesel boat will do about 15,000 to 20,000 hours before you have to do a major rebuild on the motor, our boat does 50,000 hours and you change one bearing and there's nothing more to do, there's nothing to look at.”

What started as an idea for one boat has mushroomed, Jeremy Ward says.

“Partway through the process, we realised that we needed to build an industry, because we've had inquiries from all over the world.

“Almost every country in the world has approached us about whether we could help them to build some electric boats here in Wellington.”

The plan is to build a factory in Wellington, he says.

Electric is significantly cheaper than diesel, and Ward says payback for the approximately $9 million ferry will be in eight years.
mcarthur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2022, 01:44 AM   #85
Guru
 
Simi 60's Avatar
 
City: Queensland
Vessel Model: Milkraft 60 converted timber prawn trawler
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 4,492
Quote:

The boat is 90 meters long, seven meters wide
Poor reporting

Quote:
5500 kilos of batteries onboard powering two electric motors that propel the boat, each motor has 325 kilowatts or 500 horsepower.
And there be the killer.
5500 kegs of LFP would cost a very large number.
And to charge, a very large charging system costing a very large number
And I reckon there'd be a few tonnes of fowl a week in generating electrickery to feed them.
__________________
Everything on a boat is broken, you just don't know it yet
Full time cruising is repairing boats in exotic locations
Simi 60 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2022, 02:09 AM   #86
Senior Member
 
darkside's Avatar
 
City: Tauranga
Vessel Name: Ahi
Vessel Model: Roger Hill Powercat
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 272
For good quality, 540kWh of LiFePO4 is around USD250k complete with cooling, BMS etc.
Chargers to run 20% to 100% in a bit over an hour around USD100K.
For a ferry you would want the chargers at both ends so USD200K.

Doesn't make much of a dent in USD9mill sticker price.
darkside is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2022, 03:20 AM   #87
Senior Member
 
mcarthur's Avatar
 
City: Canberra
Vessel Name: Blu Emu
Vessel Model: Ligure 50' aluminium power catamaran
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simi 60 View Post
...
And I reckon there'd be a few tonnes of fowl a week in generating electrickery to feed them.
Well, they claim to have done a substantial study of viability which looked at the production cost (sunk cost but let's not use that for boats :smile and the ongoing electrical costs, including some fossil fuel electrical generation through the grid, battery recycling etc. Since someone(s) is/are putting their own money up, not gubbermint, I suspect they asked all the same questions that 99.999% of people on here have/would/will ask and - since they have built it - were very happy with the answers regarding cost and carbon viability (which is pretty important in NZ).

"tonnes of fowl" can highly processed fossilised fowls (diesel), or cute little electrons with sub-atomic feathers from solar or wind
mcarthur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2022, 01:31 PM   #88
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,451
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannc View Post

We really are interested in traveling in Europe in the canals. That is something that is not going to happen in a boat with a large air draft. Even the LRCs, with their low air draft, are not going to get into some canals, but there are still plenty that would be accessible. The hybrid use in the canals is something one would use quite a bit and would seem to make the system worth the cost.
Wifey B: We were amazed how many rivers and canals were accessible by larger boats in Europe. I'd recommend starting with all those and not initially worrying about the canals you can't travel. Then rent a boat already on those canals if you still want to travel them. I would like one day to do some of them but it's slow and tedious travel and not something I'd want to spend an entire season on when there is so much more to see and experience. Meanwhile, so many places you can go and see in a larger boat.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2022, 02:39 PM   #89
Guru
 
Simi 60's Avatar
 
City: Queensland
Vessel Model: Milkraft 60 converted timber prawn trawler
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 4,492
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarthur View Post
Well, they claim to have done a substantial study of viability which looked at the production cost (sunk cost but let's not use that for boats :smile and the ongoing electrical costs, including some fossil fuel electrical generation through the grid, battery recycling etc. Since someone(s) is/are putting their own money up, not gubbermint, I suspect they asked all the same questions that 99.999% of people on here have/would/will ask and - since they have built it - were very happy with the answers regarding cost and carbon viability (which is pretty important in NZ).
I am sure they would have done but I would think the cost and viability would not make sense to the average user who does 100 miles a week

Quote:
"tonnes of fowl" can highly processed fossilised fowls (diesel), or cute little electrons with sub-atomic feathers from solar or wind
Tonnes of coal that should have been
Hate the keyboard on this new tablet
__________________
Everything on a boat is broken, you just don't know it yet
Full time cruising is repairing boats in exotic locations
Simi 60 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2022, 08:58 AM   #90
Guru
 
Irish Rambler's Avatar
 
City: NARBONNE
Vessel Name: 'Snow Mouse.'
Vessel Model: BROOM FLYBRIDGE 42.
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,704
Dancc & BandB, if you would like details on the European canals then I suggest you buy my book 'Windmills & Wine' to help you.
Its available from Amazon books as either a paperback or e book. Type in, 'Windmills and Wine' By Geoff Woolley. There's lots of photos and maps which will help you.
I hope you enjoy it. a 5* review would be most welcome if you do.
Irish Rambler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2022, 09:12 AM   #91
Guru
 
Irish Rambler's Avatar
 
City: NARBONNE
Vessel Name: 'Snow Mouse.'
Vessel Model: BROOM FLYBRIDGE 42.
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,704
It would be interesting to know how much does it cost to make the electric and the batteries
Irish Rambler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2022, 11:51 AM   #92
Guru
 
City: NC
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,082
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
Wifey B: We were amazed how many rivers and canals were accessible by larger boats in Europe. I'd recommend starting with all those and not initially worrying about the canals you can't travel. Then rent a boat already on those canals if you still want to travel them. I would like one day to do some of them but it's slow and tedious travel and not something I'd want to spend an entire season on when there is so much more to see and experience. Meanwhile, so many places you can go and see in a larger boat.
The LRC we are looking at will take us around the world, access many of the canals in Europe, yet because of its low draft, and ability to dry out, opens up even more places. However, there are some canals we really wish we could take the LRC but the locks are too small in some cases, or more often, it is the air draft that is the restriction.

I bought the "books" for traveling the European canals and there are soooo many places to go, even if restricted by boat size. Having the ability to access at least some of the canals really gives one options.

Later,
Dan
dannc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2022, 12:53 PM   #93
Newbie
 
VEGA's Avatar
 
City: Berlin
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 3
Hello Dan,

interesting that you are looking into an LRC. We are doing the same!

Brief history: We have been looking at an FPB64 for a very long time. As you know, the ships are no longer built and to that extent it is not possible to realize our own wishes and ideas based on an FPB. The ships are perfect for long passages, very safe, very economical, very easy to maintain simply perfect for the long range. But living on board is not as considered as we would like. Stairs up, stairs down, small and difficult to use aft deck, little daylight in cabins, no sightlines from cabins, style of silhouette, height vs inland waters, these are points we envision differently.

There are realistic alternatives Arksen and Circa. These ships are certainly good, but also have their price.

For us personally, a large volume, big living space, wide hull is out of the question. We want maximum economy, because we want to go electric, or at least "very hybrid" and harvest the energy from the sun. The development technology will still take some time, but we also have some time.

That is why we have been working intensively on the LRC65. The ship offers all the possibilities we want and we have created an interior design, and formulated our basic thoughts about it. Take a look:

https://www.artnautica.eu/project-vega
VEGA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2022, 01:53 AM   #94
Senior Member
 
darkside's Avatar
 
City: Tauranga
Vessel Name: Ahi
Vessel Model: Roger Hill Powercat
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 272
Looks great. Is there a second head to use when motoring to windward?
I like the clean European look but do wonder about the square corners on the cabinets while underway.

Can you offer more about the drive train/batteries/solar you will use?
darkside is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2022, 09:07 AM   #95
Guru
 
City: Newport, R.I.
Vessel Name: Hippocampus
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 42
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 2,340
I’m in love with Dennis’s designs. There’s clear evidence he is a cruiser and understands what it means to actually live on and use a boat. I understand he used input from 58 owners when drawing the 65. Personally be quite happy with the twin version of the 58. Checks all my buttons.
Some forget Kasten drew multiple very efficient small Al John Deere powered light, thin boats. Primarily in the 50-60’ range. They’re beautiful harking back to a more traditional aesthetic but could be hybrid or converted to Beta twins if simplicity was desired. Those designs have easy areas for enough solar to be zero footprint at rest.
Hippocampus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2022, 05:18 PM   #96
Newbie
 
City: Sequim
Vessel Name: Belle Haven
Join Date: Sep 2022
Posts: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksanders View Post
It is a dream day when a sail boat cruises at full displacement speed yet I can do it at any time.

The sailboat helmsman is outside rain or shine while I am sitting in a comfortable helm seat inside

Parking a similar size trawler style boat next to a sail boat of equal length will reveal that the sail boat is less than half the interior volume. As a liveaboard I can attest that volume is everything.

Nope, don't even need to consider the costs. Some things are priceless
Hey, Mr. Sanders!! You made it from the chilly climes of AK to the Baja? Sweet!

As you likely know, the Trophy 2459 Offshore has new owners and the younger couple are loving it! We have been in refit since July of 2019. We would have shoved off earlier, but then COVID closed all the places we were planning to head. But in the meantime, we have added lots, particularly electrical. But we can chat about that later. I'm anxious to hear where you are now. PM me if you like.

We are currently waiting on new pieces, and will be heading your way end of September.

Are you hold up someplace south?

Kevin D Holden ....aka Cpt Crunchie
Cpt Crunchie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012