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10-11-2021, 08:36 AM
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#21
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Guru
City: Jacksonville Beach, FL
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,252
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When the name of the vessel being hailed is unknown, an alternative protocol may be used, e.g.:
ME (delivering a 95' three-decked dinner-dance / sightseeing boat across the Gulf of Mexico, about 50 miles offshore from anywhere).
VESSEL HAILING (a deep-water shrimp trawler and the only other vessel in sight).
VESSEL HAILING: "How 'bout that big ol' blue & white riverboat lookin' thang over there, come back?"
ME: "Vessel hailing, this is the motor vessel XXXX XXXXX, channel one-six, over."
VESSEL HAILING (still on 16): "Yeah, cap'n, you got any cigarettes on that thang you wanna trade for a few pounds of shrimp?"
__________________
"Less judgment than wit is more sail than ballast. Yet it must be confessed that wit give an edge to sense, and recommends it extremely." ~ William Penn
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10-11-2021, 09:04 AM
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#22
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Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blissboat
When the name of the vessel being hailed is unknown, an alternative protocol may be used, e.g.:
ME (delivering a 95' three-decked dinner-dance / sightseeing boat across the Gulf of Mexico, about 50 miles offshore from anywhere).
VESSEL HAILING (a deep-water shrimp trawler and the only other vessel in sight).
VESSEL HAILING: "How 'bout that big ol' blue & white riverboat lookin' thang over there, come back?"
ME: "Vessel hailing, this is the motor vessel XXXX XXXXX, channel one-six, over."
VESSEL HAILING (still on 16): "Yeah, cap'n, you got any cigarettes on that thang you wanna trade for a few pounds of shrimp?"
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You are lucky to even understand what many are trying to say.
I have been on numerous rescues where I almost got so frustrated and gave up listening to fishing boat captains calling for help......
Radio procedures????? "we don't need no stink'n procedures"
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10-11-2021, 09:37 AM
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#23
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Guru
City: North Charleston, SC
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rslifkin
Personally, I don't bother with the "motor vessel" or other designation when hailing unless there's a reason it would matter in a given situation. And I don't generally waste airtime repeating names 3 times either.
Depending on distance to the other boat and if I've heard them on the radio to indicate they're paying attention, I'll either repeat once or twice. You want them to hear you, but no need to do more than it takes to catch their attention. So typical for me would be "xxxx, xxxx, this is Hour Glass..."
In general, the goal is to be clear and concise. If you're getting in contact and getting the message across quickly (especially before switching off 16 where you don't want to waste airtime) and you're not having to repeat or clarify things to the other person, you're generally doing it right.
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I generally say the name of the boat or location I am calling twice, but the Coast Guard repeats everything three times. If there were to be anything to relieve congestion on the VHF, it would have to start with the Coast Guard itself.
When calling, I don't identify myself in the original call. I wait for a reply and then say the name of my boat and description if necessary.
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10-11-2021, 09:49 AM
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#24
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Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,149
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The major problem without IDing yourself in the initial call is often the other vessel waits for a second call or hesitates with the "vessel hailing XXX (them), go ahead". So maybe, mabe not a wasted transmission.
Also being clear and concise is important, but many are not good on the radio and sometimes the first call or two can be confusing, so NOT recommending a channel and switching immediately is an issue in some areas at busy times.
The people who say "up one" don't get the rules either (in the USA).
What I usually try..... " vessel xxx, vessel xxx, this is Freedom, switch and answer ch xx"
Which should be the only transmission on ch 16 needed. I sometimes try ch 13 first hoping the rec boater is also savy....and it almost always works on commercial vessels. The other freq I would use would be if it was a monitored waterway with a mandated frequency.
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10-11-2021, 09:58 AM
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#25
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Guru
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft 381 Catalina
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 7,554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld
The major problem without IDing yourself in the initial call is often the other vessel waits for a second call or hesitates with the "vessel hailing XXX (them), go ahead". So maybe, mabe not a wasted transmission.
Also being clear and concise is important, but many are not good on the radio and sometimes the first call or two can be confusing, so NOT recommending a channel and switching immediately is an issue in some areas at busy times.
The people who say "up one" don't get the rules either (in the USA).
What I usually try..... " vessel xxx, vessel xxx, this is Freedom, switch and answer ch xx"
Which should be the only transmission on ch 16 needed. I sometimes try ch 13 first hoping the rec boater is also savy....and it almost always works on commercial vessels. The other freq I would use would be if it was a monitored waterway with a mandated frequency.
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Agreed on ID-ing who's calling being useful. I typically skip the "switch and answer" part to keep the initial transmission short. No reason to waste airtime before I know the other guy is even listening. So I'd typically transmit something like "Freedom, Freedom, this is Hour Glass on one-six" and expect a response of something like "Hour Glass, this is Freedom, switch six-eight".
I've gotten in the habit of specifying which channel I'm hailing on based on the behavior of many commercial boats. And I appreciate when people do it as well. Saves those with multiple VHFs having to look to see which one is squawking. If I know what channel I'm hearing a call on, I know which mic to pick up for a response.
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10-11-2021, 10:22 AM
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#26
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Guru
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,021
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...and leave the "over and out" to the movie people who do not know better.
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10-11-2021, 10:35 AM
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#27
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Guru
City: Seattle
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ancora
...and leave the "over and out" to the movie people who do not know better.
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Funny. I’ve even seen them holding the microphone backwards in movies.
BTW we tend to use “over” at work on our TEAMS meetings quite often, especially after giving a long discourse. But then again, these guys are all rocket-heads and they have their own (very cool) language
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10-11-2021, 11:32 AM
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#28
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Guru
City: Dewatto
Vessel Name: CHiTON
Vessel Model: Tung Hwa Clipper 30
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,096
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rslifkin
I've gotten in the habit of specifying which channel I'm hailing on based on the behavior of many commercial boats. And I appreciate when people do it as well. Saves those with multiple VHFs having to look to see which one is squawking. If I know what channel I'm hearing a call on, I know which mic to pick up for a response.
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Multiple VHFs or monitoring multiple channels. Give the recipient a clue.
__________________
Marco Flamingo
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10-11-2021, 12:09 PM
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#29
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Guru
City: Nanaimo
Vessel Name: former owner of "Pilitak"
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,703
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Coming from an emergency services background, I have always been taught and operated under the main premise that an important message must be clear, concise, and most importantly understood. To achieve this goal, confirmation is required.
While not tying up the airways (in particular Ch. 16) is important, ensuring that your communication is understood is critical, and doing so in a prescribed manner often results in taking less time in the long run.
When hailing, always use the "hey you, it's me" approach. The official method does call for using each vessel name 3 times, hence that is what the Coast Guard does. (Lead by example type of thing). Many boaters successfully shorten this to 2 times. Two times is actually needed (minimum) to stand a better chance of not only being heard but actually achieving recognition. The first time may get someone's attention, but was that really me they were calling??? The second time confirms that it was you being hailed.
So it should go something like: "Freedom, Freedom.....this is Pilitak, Pilitak on Channel 16 (one-six)". Followed by: "Pilitak, Pilitak.....this is Freedom.....switch to 68 (six-eight), 68". This is best followed by "Roger Freedom 68".
This method takes only a few seconds longer than trying some "short cut" method, but it ensures that the message is clear, received, and most importantly understood. Without confirmation, the original caller is guessing that the message was actually "complete and understood". I have heard many, many "botched" attempts at radio communication that end up taking much more radio time (CH 16) and "contacts" to finally get everyone on the same page (in this case, channel). If regularly contacting the same vessel (say a companion boat), after the first contact, this can be shortened as long as both mariners understand how that is being done.
I have heard many even professional mariners violate good radio communication protocol. A prime example locally is the BC Ferries (they operate large vessels on multiple routes on a regular basis). Regularly they announce a "Securite, Securite, Securite... then a message giving their intentions like direction of travel, what pass, etc." However, they do not repeat their vessel name at all, and they ramble off their message speaking very, very quickly. I know what they are saying having heard the message hundreds of times, but most times I miss key parts like vessel name, direction, etc. According to radio protocol, if a message is important enough to broadcast, ensuring understanding (or making best efforts to do so) is most important, or why bother to even do the broadcast? If they repeated the vessel name at least 2 times and slowed down to improve message clarity, it would add only a scant few seconds to the overall time to deliver the message, but it would much more likely actually be understood. "What good is babbling something over the air that few (if any) actually understand" just to do it quickly??
Obviously this must be "adapted" if you don't know the name of the vessel you are trying to contact, and then things like descriptions, positions, directions of travel, etc. are needed (at first).
__________________
Tom
Nanaimo, BC
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10-11-2021, 01:30 PM
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#30
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Scraping Paint
City: Lake Stevens, WA via Honolulu
Vessel Name: 'Au Kai (Ocean Traveler)
Vessel Model: C-Dory 25
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 450
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After 26 years in LE I have some (obviously) ingrained habits when it comes to radio communication. As a result, I have to consciously think about what to say and how I say in on the VHF. It’s not automatic like it is at work.
For instance, at work the first transmission is always your call sign. The exact opposite procedure when on the VHF.
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10-11-2021, 02:28 PM
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#31
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Moderator Emeritus
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 21,189
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Firehoser, excellent! Clear and concise is important and even more important is being understood. It drives me crazy listening to the CG give a warning. They are taught to be fast, so fast that they are very difficult to understand. I have spoken to a couple of sector commanders about having them slow down but alas it didn’t help. A lot of boaters are getting up there in age and don’t hear as well as a 20 year old and when they speak so rapidly they are not understandable. What good is a warning if nobody can understand it. Better to take 10 seconds more and have it understandable.
And don’t get me started on “over and out”. Over means I am done talking and waiting on you to talk. Out means we are finished. How can I be waiting on you to speak if we are finished speaking???
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
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10-11-2021, 04:35 PM
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#32
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TF Site Team
City: California Delta
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: 1977 Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,728
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Something that surprised me coming to the big boat world from the world of aviation was the lack of common radio procedures being used by many/most boaters. It's like folks bought a big boat but didn't learn how to communicate the language. Many don't even know about Vessel Traffic check-in or radio monitoring protocols.
Someone should do a simple, common sense lesson of maritime radio comm procedures on YouTube for the newbie to big (slow) boating. Scott, you'd be the perfect guy for the job!!!
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10-11-2021, 05:02 PM
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#33
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Guru
City: Jacksonville Beach, FL
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWright
It's like folks bought a big boat but didn't learn how to communicate the language.
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You said it! More evidence in support of mandatory boater education and licensing, IMO.
__________________
"Less judgment than wit is more sail than ballast. Yet it must be confessed that wit give an edge to sense, and recommends it extremely." ~ William Penn
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10-11-2021, 05:25 PM
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#34
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Guru
City: North Charleston, SC
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,870
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In the USA, no license or test is required to own or use a marine band VHF transceiver. It's not at all surprising then that many boaters do not know the procedures or language that is expected.
10-4 good buddy!
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10-11-2021, 05:39 PM
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#35
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Master and Commander
City: Vallejo CA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: penultimate Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,559
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The only thing that bothers me on VHF channel 16 are those requesting a radio check. The USCG usually responds with a "no-no."
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
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10-11-2021, 06:08 PM
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#36
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Guru
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,050
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce
The only thing that bothers me on VHF channel 16 are those requesting a radio check. The USCG usually responds with a "no-no."
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Victoria Coast Guard (Canada) is real quick to remind on the "radio check" is not on VHF16.
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10-11-2021, 06:58 PM
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#37
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Guru
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft 381 Catalina
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 7,554
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Around here, USCG doesn't usually care if someone calls for a radio check on 16, provided it's a quiet day and they're quick about it. But if more start to think "hey, good idea" and do the same, then they'll give the speech.
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10-11-2021, 08:36 PM
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#38
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Scraping Paint
City: Lake Stevens, WA via Honolulu
Vessel Name: 'Au Kai (Ocean Traveler)
Vessel Model: C-Dory 25
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWright
It's like folks bought a big boat but didn't learn how to communicate the language.
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Communicate? Watch some of the boating channels on YouTube. Most don’t even know what dock lines are, what fenders do, what the throttle does, what’s the proper pickup truck to purchase...
I’ve often asked “would these people buy a Cessna and just ‘go flying’”?
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10-11-2021, 08:37 PM
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#39
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Scraping Paint
City: Lake Stevens, WA via Honolulu
Vessel Name: 'Au Kai (Ocean Traveler)
Vessel Model: C-Dory 25
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction
Victoria Coast Guard (Canada) is real quick to remind on the "radio check" is not on VHF16.
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Same with CG station Puget Sound (Seattle).
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