Problem in the Swinomish Channel

[Portage_Bay]

Thank you, Portage Bay, for this write up. I’m new to the world of boating where you need charts, and while I have learned some navigation basics, it’s clear that there’s no simple or easy answer. What I conclude from your above, given that raster and paper charts are on the outs, learning vector charts in exhaustive depth is the best path for new mariners. But don’t rely too heavily on them.

We live in Dugualla Bay Heights, and from our house we can see the entrance to the Swinomish Channel. We’ve been having really low tides lately, and when the water is out at the most extreme, that channel appears to be little wider than your average country creek. The mud flats in this area are miles across, particularly in the area of the channel entrance. Navigating it doesn’t look fun to me at all. I can’t imagine doing it at night.

Vector charts can be relied on. However you must understand their limitations and strengths. Any nav aid must be treated the same.

Regarding the Swinomish Slough. You do have to be cautious. But it's not hard once you master the basis.

Sent from my SM-A125U using Trawler Forum mobile app

 

[Slowmo]

What a shame. I used to transit this channel twice a year, many of those years before GPS. It is essential to go around the outer marker and line up on the range boards, which are lit (at least used to be). The final marker is much further out than one might expect, but don't cut it. The ranging boards/lights will bring you straight down the middle, no GPS needed. To me the cautionary tale is not 'cut the corner, not to use AP in a channel like this, use the provided navigational aids,and not to over depend on the GPS. I'd add the caution about running at night but it happens.

 

[magna 6882]

Heading southbound when the fog came in. Sunny in Laconner when we left and no fog in the forecast. Had another chart running on an ipad and ais plotter on a second ipad. Thought of turning around but the current was really running. A real nail biter. I could hear sport boats runnning past with no ais so had to clear them with radar. Never did see them with my eyes. A good story i dont want to repeat.I took the photo towards the end since i had my hand full.

 

[Nancy n Larry]

Heading southbound when the fog came in. Sunny in Laconner when we left and no fog in the forecast. Had another chart running on an ipad and ais plotter on a second ipad. Thought of turning around but the current was really running. A real nail biter. I could hear sport boats runnning past with no ais so had to clear them with radar. Never did see them with my eyes. A good story i dont want to repeat.I took the photo towards the end since i had my hand full.

We have been through there in flat foggy conditions, traversing south to north. Real dicey in the fog. Not fun at all. Definitely an area to respected. Personally, not going to try it at night.

 

[ronobrien]

Thank you, Portage Bay, for this write up. I’m new to the world of boating where you need charts, and while I have learned some navigation basics, it’s clear that there’s no simple or easy answer. What I conclude from your above, given that raster and paper charts are on the outs, learning vector charts in exhaustive depth is the best path for new mariners. But don’t rely too heavily on them.

We live in Dugualla Bay Heights, and from our house we can see the entrance to the Swinomish Channel. We’ve been having really low tides lately, and when the water is out at the most extreme, that channel appears to be little wider than your average country creek. The mud flats in this area are miles across, particularly in the area of the channel entrance. Navigating it doesn’t look fun to me at all. I can’t imagine doing it at night.

Welcome to the world of the mariner. I have been sailing and navigating for decades. One thing I was taught many years ago is to never rely on one source of information. Constant cross referencing of various sources (or devices) helps to ensure a safe voyage. It is easy to become transfixed on one source or device and convince yourself that things are not what they actually are. I was also taught to give more credence to radar than other sources, as it is a truer representation of the real world than charts or plotters which can have errors, as we are all reading here. Best of luck.

 

[Doug_Snider]

It looks like another vessel met the same fate at the same location in the past week.

 

[Bob Cofer]

Interesting details on this one. The crew was detained by the USCG and Homeland Security as they were undocumented aliens. Lots of fuel cans on deck also…

 

[Comodave]

Maybe they should just leave the wreck there as a warning to others…

 

[bshanafelt]

As an aside, this particular vessel was anchored in front of Cap Sante for a number of days last week, maybe much more than when we cruised by.

As can be seen in the second pic, there's something of a framework to hold tarps on the deck.

Our recent observation is that derelict/riff raff boats are congregating in the bay outside Cap Sante recently.

No longer advisable to set your crab pots overnight in that area as they may or may not be there when you go to pick them up the next morning.


May be good advice to secure your dinghy as well.

 

[Bmarler]

i cant be positive, but i'm pretty sure that's the boat that was moored in budd inlet near the country club for many years. it had a full custom fit cover (yellow) and the framework was still installed. it was once a beautiful vessel and did some charter service in alaska. something happened to the owner, and it has not been used for many years. they lost their moorage in olympia and the yacht was listed on craigslist. the cover had developed a leak or two so there was a certain amount of damage, but what was there was still gorgeous, well worth repairing. it was a very classy vessel, can't remember the make right now.
last time i was out i noticed it was gone, sad to see it end this way. i can't remember how much the asking was, but it seems like it was north of 30k. i sure wonder what the story was on the grounding.

 

[DDW]

The NOAA raster charts will still depict the rocks and natural hazards for some decades to come. You should download them while you still can.

The vector charts that replace them are really targeted for commercial and large boat traffic. The business of government is after all Business. On Big Water they are fine. In confined spaces untravelled by commerce, not so much.

There is still a very big difference, in my opinion, between a hand drawn chart where significant hazards are intentionally emphasized, particularly on the larger size charts, so that they do not go unnoticed. These often disappear (are "decluttered" in the vernacular) unless zoomed in sufficiently on a vector chart. And how is one to know what a sufficient zoom level is? In addition, much of the 'color' is missing, shoreline contours and features, that sort of thing.

The long held disadvantages of printed raster charts have long been overcome by electronic presentation, which automatically stitches them together, and selects scale based on zoom level.

 

[tiltrider1]

I use vector charts and my chart clearly denotes a jetty. Admittedly, the jetty is under water at high tide. I can see wandering off course and sticking it in the mud but these boats are way out of the channel markers.

 

[Portage_Bay]

The NOAA raster charts will still depict the rocks and natural hazards for some decades to come. You should download them while you still can.

The vector charts that replace them are really targeted for commercial and large boat traffic. The business of government is after all Business. On Big Water they are fine. In confined spaces untravelled by commerce, not so much.

There is still a very big difference, in my opinion, between a hand drawn chart where significant hazards are intentionally emphasized, particularly on the larger size charts, so that they do not go unnoticed. These often disappear (are "decluttered" in the vernacular) unless zoomed in sufficiently on a vector chart. And how is one to know what a sufficient zoom level is? In addition, much of the 'color' is missing, shoreline contours and features, that sort of thing.

The long held disadvantages of printed raster charts have long been overcome by electronic presentation, which automatically stitches them together, and selects scale based on zoom level.

I very much prefer raster over vector charts but that doesn't matter because raster charts are going away.

Like you I find there are numerous examples of hazards that are of concern to smaller vessels operating in skinny waters that are better emphasized on raster charts.

With the coming demise of raster I've started digging into learning the use of vector charts. It is more than zoom level. Depending on the source of the charts, official vs proprietary. And the plotter/MFD/app/software used to display the charts there are numerous settings the mariner must be aware of pay attention to in order to get the needed information displayed.

 

[bowball]

The discussion of raster versus vector has prompted me to run both as I have multiple displays. See if that makes a difference.

 

[Portage_Bay]

The discussion of raster versus vector has prompted me to run both as I have multiple displays. See if that makes a difference.

I've been doing the same which shows me how careful I need to be in my use of vector charts.

 

[bshanafelt]

Past the wreck this morning.

There is a line to one of the nearby dolphins & a fuel boom is deployed


How they ended up outside the channel heading the direction they were is a puzzle.

The range markers are crystal clear.


Thinking back, I believe I heard this call for assisatance the other day & the skies were clear - I think around 11am?

 

[DDW]

I very much prefer raster over vector charts but that doesn't matter because raster charts are going away.

Actually the raster charts are good forever. They won't get updated, but the ones you download now will never die. Updates to rocks are very infrequent, updates to buoys more often but in these days of GPS moving map navigation buoys are increasingly irrelevant (nearly everywhere). Some software allows you to essentially overlay the vector nav aids on the raster which keeps them fresh forever. I suppose plate tectonics eventually obsoletes them, but not something I worry about.

I have downloaded the NOAA raster charts for everywhere I ever hope to cruise, since in a few years they will no longer be downloadable. Did the same for CHS raster charts, as they are going off the servers eventually. CHS cost you money, but the NOAA are free.

 

[Portage_Bay]

Actually the raster charts are good forever. They won't get updated, but the ones you download now will never die. Updates to rocks are very infrequent, updates to buoys more often but in these days of GPS moving map navigation buoys are increasingly irrelevant (nearly everywhere). Some software allows you to essentially overlay the vector nav aids on the raster which keeps them fresh forever. I suppose plate tectonics eventually obsoletes them, but not something I worry about.



I have downloaded the NOAA raster charts for everywhere I ever hope to cruise, since in a few years they will no longer be downloadable. Did the same for CHS raster charts, as they are going off the servers eventually. CHS cost you money, but the NOAA are free.

I downloaded the entire NOAA raster catalog some time ago. I keep it up to date as much as possible.

 

[magna 6882]

Just an FYI for any one wondering what the range markers looked like.

 

[Patemey]

Two things I have noticed when transiting the Laconner channel from the south:
- as you turn into the channel and around the first red can, give it plenty of room It shoals there, so while you may think you're okay since you're going around the red can, it is particularily shallow close to the can.
- as you transit the southern channel, there is a rock breakwater to the south, until about halfway there isn't - there is an opening in that rock breakwater and it shoals in the channel at that point. You'll be in 10-12 ft of water thinking life is good and suddenly you're in 5-6 ft of water.


These are all close calls while staying within the channel markers. Outside the channel, you'll be in trouble quick.

 

[magna 6882]

I was following a boat out today and he turned to port before the last red can. The area looks real good from the helm but as previously stated run well past the last can. Tide was up a bit but the fellow in front of me didnt have much water under him.